Truck Exhaust emissions true or false

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS OLD TIME LORRIES, COMPANIES AND DRIVERS (INTERACT
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robert1952:

[zb]
anorak:
Enough short term wealth is created to “justify” the long term problems. The wealthiest group of people drive the decisions harder than the rest, because they have more power- the more money they make out of the rest, the faster the drum is encouraged to spin. The ratio of short term gain to long term loss is therefore a function of the ratio between the wealth of the richest and that of the poorest, it seems. You would need to be a bloody good economist to put numbers to that.

The aspect which intrigues me is the failure of some of the firms to meet the criteria. It is as if some risk was engineered into the rules, to make the stakes higher and, potentially, precipitate a cull in the number of competitors in the market. ■■■■■■■ and Caterpillars’ travails in the US point to the latter. Why should a behemoth like VW catch a cold, though? You would have thought it, along with the other global car companies, would have got things right. I detect the interference of the legal sector- they are just as evil as the banks. They thrive on conflict, and what better battleground than a raft of awkward legislation? Lawyers, advising the regulators in the Governments.

You old cynic, you! But I like the theory. Robert :slight_smile:

That doesn’t make any sense.Because the lawyers would only get any benefit if they could predict a situation of non compliance by their prospective targets.As opposed to either doing what CAT did in walking away or doing whatever it takes to comply.IE for that type of conspiracy to work it would have needed to go along the lines of we know we’ve set them an impossible hurdle in terms of emissions standards and we know that they’ll fiddle the tests to get over it. :bulb:

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It is not a conspiracy, as Anorak says, the lawyers will earn an absolute fortune taking VW to court, how many tens of thousands of billable hours will be worked preparing the documentation alone?

Like it or not, we are just pawns in their (the super rich) game and the big game right now is oil and climate change, ironically the biggest threat to the supposed climate change is the burning of fossil fuels and since all this planet saving nonsense has been in use we’re using more and more fossil fuels as a result of the extra manufacturing, packaging, distribution of said equipment and through the built in inefficiency of the product.

People far cleverer than us lorry types have pulled a masterstroke with this one, even if we could prove it was a big con, they only have to pull out a cross section of a baby’s lung full of diesel smoke and the rest of the population will be right behind them.

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Shirtbox has started a thread here that has brought some of the best debaters to the keyboard. I thought Trucknet was populated by old-timers like me who would argue over best tyre pressures on a six wheeler and leave the oily bits to the mechanics.
You guys are not just the past of the industry, but the future. There is hope for us all. Jim.

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newmercman:
It is not a conspiracy, as Anorak says, the lawyers will earn an absolute fortune taking VW to court, how many tens of thousands of billable hours will be worked preparing the documentation alone?

Like it or not, we are just pawns in their (the super rich) game and the big game right now is oil and climate change, ironically the biggest threat to the supposed climate change is the burning of fossil fuels and since all this planet saving nonsense has been in use we’re using more and more fossil fuels as a result of the extra manufacturing, packaging, distribution of said equipment and through the built in inefficiency of the product.

People far cleverer than us lorry types have pulled a masterstroke with this one, even if we could prove it was a big con, they only have to pull out a cross section of a baby’s lung full of diesel smoke and the rest of the population will be right behind them.

Spot on Mark, Ad-blue being a good example,how much fuel burnt with just the distribution of it? How much fuel burnt disposing of the empty 10 litre drums its packed in? a lot because the company I work for got a contract to clear fuel distribution depots of the empties nationwide and as for making it,ain’t got a clue! Cheers Pete

25

Speaking of Add Blue I was looking at the new Jaguar model at Stratstones & I noticed that the Diesels are fitted with an Add Blue tank The filler cap is positioned in the Boot on the near side of the vehicle , Regards Larry.

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newmercman:
It is not a conspiracy…

These things never are. They are groups of circumstances which excite the same group of human responses. There is no plotting involved. The clever people take advantage, without having to conspire.

newmercman:
…they only have to pull out a cross section of a baby’s lung full of diesel smoke and the rest of the population will be right behind them.

On the other hand, I reckon this regiment of the environmentalist movement is funded by the banks, somehow. Their aims are contrary to efficiency and economy, so the ten-percenters see them as an ally. The mechanism probably involves governments’ need to minimise unemployment and maintain “growth”, whatever that is.

There was an “expert” being interviewed on the radio recently, who was full of enthusiasm for his next “target” which, IIRC, was particulate emissions, as if his wages came on a conveyor belt of pollutants, like sushi. He did not seem to care about the ■■■■■■■■■■ quantifiable benefits of his campaigning, just that there was another ground on which to fight. The interviewer did not think to ask him how he thought the human race had survived until 1990, before which the only emissions test was a white card held behind the exhaust.

It all stinks, but the amount of stink may be adjusted by an altruistic hand. The trouble with this lot is, the wasters seem to have worked out how to get their hands on the controls.

Lawrence Dunbar:
Speaking of Add Blue I was looking at the new Jaguar model at Stratstones & I noticed that the Diesels are fitted with an Add Blue tank The filler cap is positioned in the Boot on the near side of the vehicle , Regards Larry.

IIRC, my mate’s Mercedes does not require the owner to replenish its urea supply. The tank holds enough to get the car from one main dealer service to the next.

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That last sentence sums it up, from one main dealer service to the next…

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newmercman:
It is not a conspiracy, as Anorak says, the lawyers will earn an absolute fortune taking VW to court, how many tens of thousands of billable hours will be worked preparing the documentation alone?

Like it or not, we are just pawns in their (the super rich) game and the big game right now is oil and climate change, ironically the biggest threat to the supposed climate change is the burning of fossil fuels and since all this planet saving nonsense has been in use we’re using more and more fossil fuels as a result of the extra manufacturing, packaging, distribution of said equipment and through the built in inefficiency of the product.

People far cleverer than us lorry types have pulled a masterstroke with this one, even if we could prove it was a big con, they only have to pull out a cross section of a baby’s lung full of diesel smoke and the rest of the population will be right behind them.

Which can only mean that the lawyers are just taking advantage of of a situation that isn’t actually of their making.IE a symptom not the cause.While the whole ‘eco’ issue seems to be more about a bunch of socialist infiltrators like Obama trying to hijack the western economies to create ‘wealth distribution’.By lumbering the developed countries with a load of unnecessary costs in order to make the less developed ones artificially more competitive.On that note the lawyers are just out to make a few bob regardless of which side of the arguments they happen to end up on and it would be over simplistic to say that the establishment is united regards the con. :bulb:

newrepublic.com/article/1202 … op-war-epa

As for the baby’s lungs who knows,But surely it would make better sense for manufacturers like CAT and ■■■■■■■ to just drop the compression and put some spark plug holes in the head of the old school dozer engine or N14 and run the thing on LPG.Thereby wrong footing Obama’s etc agenda and probably ending up in a better position than those continuing on with trying to chase the never ending circle of PM v NOX that really is the writing on the wall for automotive diesels regardless of which politicians are running the show. :bulb:

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I think it was the right wingers that started the global warming scam, but whatever, it doesn’t matter which colour tie the man at the helm wears, he still answers to the same people behind the scenes. The lawyers are just jumping on the bandwagon in their usual parasitic way.

LPG or CNG/LNG is something we agree on, I covered this technology at TRUCK and I believe it is the future for internal combustion engines, I don’t think it’s the ultimate answer, but it will make a good transition between current fuels and the next big technological breakthrough.

The fastest lorry I’ve ever driven was a dual fuel Renault Premium with the 385 engine, it was a joint venture between Staffordshire CV and a Venezuelan company that used diesel as the pilot ignition source and LNG by fumigation into the intake manifold.

When I tested it the metering was out of whack and it was putting a bit more gas in than it needed, the result was breathtaking, for a test trailer we borrowed a 40’ flat loaded with bricks from Barry Procter and that little Premium absolutely flew. I came off the A500 onto the M6 north and was bouncing off the limiter long before the end of the slip road, gearchanges were like those in a rally car, I would say it was putting out double its original power.

OK, it used a lot of LNG, but it proved that the gas is capable of powering heavy commercial vehicles cleanly. To produce that kind of power from diesel, the smoke cloud would still be hovering over Stoke to this day.

However there’s a fly in the ointment, infrastructure. New engines could be produced to use LNG relatively cheap, most of the existing mechanical stuff would remain the same, even retrofit conversions could be done without too much cost.

However the big costs would go to the oil companies as they invested in storage and delivery systems, their multi billion dollar refineries would become obsolete, as would the fleets of supertankers, road tankers and tank farms. The middle east and other oilfields would be a waste of time and last but by no means least, the clean burning nature of gas would extend engine life considerably so the manufacturers would take a hit on sales as renewal cycles would be extended through better reliability and their pals in government couldn’t legislate obsolescence by coming out with increasingly stricter emission requirements as they’re already as clean burning as possible.

Switching internal combustion engines to natural gas would be a win for the 99%, but a big loss for the 1% and because the 1% make all the decisions, it will never happen…

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I think the future has to be “Electric.” When all the fossil fuel has been burnt; electric power is all that will be left for vehicles. Battery-changing stations will replace normal fuel stations. Batteries have always come in standardised sizes so a big slab of cells that would fit onto the underside of a car should not be a problem for the industry. Larger goods vehicles would have multiple batteries. The whole under-side of a trailer could carry batteries that would be changed in a matter of seconds by robots working from pits in a service station. The batteries would then be re-charged in racks and re-fitted to any vehicle that came in for a cell-change. Much like fork-lift truck batteries are swapped in a RDC.

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The only problem with that is what energy source will be used to provide the power to recharge the batteries?

Tesla was going in the right direction until Morgan, Rockefeller et all shut him down.

Maybe electric is the compromise that will suit everybody, the oil can be used to generate the power to charge the batteries that we use?

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newmercman- the supply of gas is not infinite. Neither is the supply of oil.
ChrisArbon- the batteries, even at today’s technology are going to weigh almost as much as the vehicle’s gross weight. Never mind the problem of where the power is to come from to charge the things.
I thought we were trying to get away from the idea of using fossil fuels altogether?

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ROF, I agree, but we need a transition technology, gas will work as existing technology can be modified as can infrastructure. It won’t be easy I know, but it would be easier than switching to something completely different.

Electric or some kind of nuclear power would be the next logical step, although there’s a long way to go before either of those technologies can achieve the efficiency of burning fossil fuels.

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Retired Old ■■■■:
newmercman- the supply of gas is not infinite. Neither is the supply of oil.
ChrisArbon- the batteries, even at today’s technology are going to weigh almost as much as the vehicle’s gross weight. Never mind the problem of where the power is to come from to charge the things.
I thought we were trying to get away from the idea of using fossil fuels altogether?

The idea of the end of fossil fuel use is only going to be a problem for future generations a massive amount of time into the future.While the LPG or CNG fuelled internal combustion engine is as good as it gets in terms of emissions,fuel availability and costs as a truck fuel.Both of which can also be synthesised from coal.Meanwhile we’ve got people like Obama telling the coal producers to close down and Americans using LPG as a domestic heating fuel. :unamused:

While the logical conclusion of electric is sooner or later more Chernobyl type incidents.To add to the costs of electric power in general.Which in this case is added to by the costs of charging,maintaining and replacing batteries or going back to the already proven economic failure of trolley bus type components and infrastructure.

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Well as far as Im aware my Jaguar XF 2.2. diesel has an add blue system fitted that is recharged on its yearly service at Stratstones who services it for me, Regards Larry

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So you’re tied into having your car serviced at Stratstones, then?

Unless you just fling a load of adblue into the tank yourself. :wink: :wink: :wink:

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Retired Old ■■■■:
So you’re tied into having your car serviced at Stratstones, then?

Unless you just fling a load of adblue into the tank yourself. :wink: :wink: :wink:

My Jags allways went into Stratstones to be serviced because it was allways a free servivicing for three years when I bought them new from them, Stratstones give the best of everything to their customers as far as Im concerned,I must say when I go there I get VIP treatment every time They are Simply the best in all aspects IMOO, Regards Larry A very proud Jaguar Owner.

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How about the next owners that pick it up cheap, it won’t be so cheap anymore if you have to use main dealer servicing to keep it on the road.

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Lawrence Dunbar:

Retired Old ■■■■:
So you’re tied into having your car serviced at Stratstones, then?

Unless you just fling a load of adblue into the tank yourself. :wink: :wink: :wink:

My Jags allways went into Stratstones to be serviced because it was allways a free servivicing for three years when I bought them new from them, Stratstones give the best of everything to their customers as far as Im concerned,I must say when I go there I get VIP treatment every time They are Simply the best in all aspects IMOO, Regards Larry A very proud Jaguar Owner.

By current figures the depreciation for a 2.2 XF is around £22,000 over 4 years. :open_mouth:

Meanwhile a Vauxhall VXR8 has lost around £10,000 over 6 years.As for classic Jags the only way is up.There’s still no substitute for a big petrol motor and a manual box in that regard. :wink: :laughing:

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I like the look of those new Jags, especially the big one, if they lose that kind of money in the first few years I might have a look for an R type or whatever the fast ones are called now when I’ve had enough of the F150, no ad blue issues on the petrol engines, but maybe they should start working on the smoke from tyres in preparation for me driving one as I can be a bit of a hooligan at times!