ajt:
Good luck to any new driver who has gone through the C and C+E with no experience of manual truck gears.
You join a agency or a firm and get thrown a set of keys to a manual without any prior training and you really will be screwed. Its not something you can simply pick up. I can understand why its appealing though, one less thing to worry about but its worth thinking of the bigger picture.
I think it’s ridiculous letting people pass class 2 without training them on a 4-over-4. I trained on a 4/4 with a switch, and even then I didn’t know how to operate a “slap-over” gearbox the first time I had to drive a Merc tipper for a rental company (only briefly) - I kept fumbling whenever I had to change from 4 to 5 or back. That said, I trained on an unladen 14-tonne LF55, and was told to basically use 4th gear as 1st, and that the other three were for use when heavily laden or pulling a trailer. In the real world 4/4 gearboxes are found on 18-tonners and up (and most 18-tonners nowadays are either straight six or automatic), but when I did have to use one, I had to ask which gear to start in (as it happened, 2nd) and made myself look a bit of a fool.
On class 1, it’s all about the trailer and you can do without the distraction of a manual gearbox when you’re reversing. Especially if the clutch is heavy and hurts your foot. Then again, companies use drawbars so that people can do class 1 on the same vehicle as class 2 so there’s continuity (and so that they don’t have to buy an artic, just a couple of trailers), so manual class 2 and automatic class 1 will mean they have to purchase more trucks.
In my opinion allowing people to do the test in automatics is dumbing the test down and it’s wrong and potentially not safe, the test is supposed to be about people proving that they can drive to a safe standard that’s suitable for them to be allowed to continue learning in real world situations, it’s not supposed to be about just about making it as easy as possible to pass.
It’s not just about being able to use a particular type of gearbox either as most people are talking about, the simple fact is that changing to the most appropriate gear for any given situation is an integral and important part of driving, in my view taking that out of the equation when it may be required in the real world is just dumbing down the test for the sake of it.
We are moving towards a time when all lorries are automatic but we’re not there yet, they’ve change these rules far too early in my opinion.
Peter Smythe:
A couple of our passes have been those who had not quite done it with the manual. But they’ve come back and sailed through on auto. Even if the gear aren’t an issue, they still take concentration which can make the difference between pass and fail.
Exactly, and it can also make the difference between being safe or unsafe, competent or incompetent, when they do have to drive a manual vehicle.
ROG:
When I got to drive autos I still had a little tuition from other drivers
So what is the problem?
Or are we saying that todays drivers are numpties and less capable to do the same?
But being told how to turn a knob/switch onto D or R is hardly the same as being taught how to drive with an additional ability/skill is it.
tachograph:
But being told how to turn a knob/switch onto D or R is hardly the same as being taught how to drive with an additional ability/skill is it.
How many different types of autos are there?
ROG:
tachograph:
But being told how to turn a knob/switch onto D or R is hardly the same as being taught how to drive with an additional ability/skill is it.
How many different types of autos are there?
What difference does that make, the most basic controls on any automatic are either toggle switches or a rotating switch, and you can drive the vehicle by simply selecting D or R, no concentration knowledge or ability is required as far as the gears are concerned.
If there comes a time when the auto needs to be or can be manually selected then how many different types?
I agree with ROG and I also agree with Tachograph and fully respect both views. Personally, I’m sat firmly on the fence which is why we’ve gone auto but kept manual. Folks can choose what they want.
Surely there is nothing wrong with passing on auto then spending an hour or two with a manual without the stress of a test.
There has always been a tension between helping someone gain their licence and training them to do the job. And this issue is another example of it.
Pete 
ROG:
If there comes a time when the auto needs to be or can be manually selected then how many different types?
I’ve lost count of the number of auto’s I’ve driven and can honestly say I have never needed to use the manual mode, I’ve used manual mode on plenty of auto’s but have never needed to.
Are you saying that manual has to be used on the test ?
If not then the question is completely irrelevant to whether or not Aut’s should be used for testing purposes.
tachograph:
ROG:
If there comes a time when the auto needs to be or can be manually selected then how many different types?
I’ve lost count of the number of auto’s I’ve driven and can honestly say I have never needed to use the manual mode, I’ve used manual mode on plenty of auto’s but have never needed to.
Are you saying that manual has to be used on the test ?
If not then the question is completely irrelevant to whether or not Aut’s should be used for testing purposes.
I thought we were discussing issues post test?
Out of the countless lorrys ive driven for agency over the past couple year two have had a split box. Took half hour/hour of steady driving in the morning to re learn it. Really dont see the issue. I dont know what other test centers are like but plymouth really dont just give away the license they make you work for it. Tough, tight routes an on you for slightest error. Think its less than 50% pass rate.
ROG:
I thought we were discussing issues post test?
I don’t know what you’re discussing but I’m talking about whether or not a driver should be able to drive vehicles with manual gearboxes after passing the test in an automatic.
tachograph:
ROG:
I thought we were discussing issues post test?
I don’t know what you’re discussing but I’m talking about whether or not a driver should be able to drive vehicles with manual gearboxes after passing the test in an automatic.
Me too
You asked whether the manual option of an auto needs to be used on test and I could not see how that was relevant - perhaps you could explain?
I don’t think it’s realistic for driving schools to prepare every trainee for everything they will encounter out there. They have enough to do getting people through a tough test.
The employer has to assume responsibility for ensuring that sufficient induction is given to anyone driving their vehicles. In days to come this might mean that those still running manuals need to get an old-hand to show the fresh auto-only drivers ropes. But frankly, most drivers are clever enough to work out that if they get to 20mph and run out of gears then they need to figure out how to find some more!
ROG:
tachograph:
ROG:
I thought we were discussing issues post test?
I don’t know what you’re discussing but I’m talking about whether or not a driver should be able to drive vehicles with manual gearboxes after passing the test in an automatic.
Me too
You asked whether the manual option of an auto needs to be used on test and I could not see how that was relevant - perhaps you could explain?
No I never, I asked “Are you saying that manual has to be used on the test ?” because you brought the manual mode into the discussion for some reason.
tachograph:
ROG:
tachograph:
ROG:
I thought we were discussing issues post test?
I don’t know what you’re discussing but I’m talking about whether or not a driver should be able to drive vehicles with manual gearboxes after passing the test in an automatic.
Me too
You asked whether the manual option of an auto needs to be used on test and I could not see how that was relevant - perhaps you could explain?
No I never, I asked “Are you saying that manual has to be used on the test ?” because you brought the manual mode into the discussion for some reason.
I brought it in because others were stating that there are different types of manual so I pointed out that there are different types of auto - its not always a case of in D and go