Tragedy caused by sleep apnea

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
21

ROG:
I’m not clued up on this subject. Do people who have this type of sleep problem have any warning or general signs that something is wrong with them :question:

There was a prog on the box sometime last year,aimed at truckers of course.
It told the story of one driver,must have been 60 ish I suppose,who drove an artic tipper for a living.He told us and the camera showed us,after half an hours driving he was all over the road,fighting sleep off!
I don’t think the programme really gave a lot of in depth info on the condition.Either you had the condition or not,no degree of severity.
If you are a little over weight,(personally,not load wise),which quite a few of us must hold our hands up to,when you are asleep,your windpipe can collapse and stop you breathing but your body’s auto system kicks in and you start breathing again.Heavy snoring is a sign that you MAY have this problem.If you have it real bad,you can stop breathing up to 400 times a night!!!Resulting in when you do get up for work you feel like you’ve not slept.
This was the way the programme discussed the condition,the worse case scenario,it was never mentioned that someone who had two sleep interuptions would not be as badly affected.,if at all.Anyway,this guy finished up with this respirator thingy,that he plugs into his ciggy socket at night,and it feeds air at low pressure into his mouth and stops the snoring and cessation of breathing immediately.
Of course,the programme had to finish on a high note with a statement to the effect,“Over half the truck drivers on our roads are potential killers!”
I don’t know what the guy’s wife prefers,his snoring,or waking up and thinking she’s in bed with a spaceman.

22

Wheel Nut:
Bringing this post back on track though. The report I read about it suggests that the driver was not diagnosed with sleep apnoea until after the accident.

A test on all HGV drivers would not be possible as it normally means an observed sleep or at least a wired up period to see if you have the problem.

You can easily test for diabetes, blood pressure or eyesight but testing for this would be difficult.

However sympathy is offered to the families of the victims

Assuming you sleep with your wife,or even someone elses wife,she may know if you suffer with the condition or not if you have periods of cessation of breathing then jerking back to life again.Depends on how deeply your partner sleeps really.
But having said that,there are obviously cases where the condition does go unobserved or undiagnosed until it’s too late.
I think if one feels constantly tired and has no idea why,it would be wise to visit the quack and he/she would then recomend a test for the condition.

23

the consultant that dealt with me, told me that he is doing or had done a research programme on this illness and his conclusion from the work that he had done was that approx 45% of drivers have this to a greater or lesser extent.
His work was done entirely with HGV drivers and several unions that have drivers as members.
There is no doubt in my mind that continually having different start times does have a bad effect on us, but that it has any effect on this illness.
To my mind it creates stress in any worker not having fairly regular hours, i.e. early starts, late finishes or shift work

24

Shouldn’t people with Sleep Apnoea just wake up and smell the coffee? :wink:

25

del949:
the consultant that dealt with me, told me that he is doing or had done a research programme on this illness and his conclusion from the work that he had done was that approx 45% of drivers have this to a greater or lesser extent.

This is what I mentioned in my last post,that the TV prog did imply that you either had it or did not have it,whereas I would have thought that there must be varying levels.

26

The worrying part is that the guy had a medical condition he knew nothing about, which they say caused the accident and still got bird. So can we expect the same if we have a heart attack whilst driving?
I can’t think of any other profession where they would dare put you in prison for having a medical complaint that you knew nothing about, just to pacify the media.

Just shows the contempt they have for us.

27

DoYouMeanMe?:
The worrying part is that the guy had a medical condition he knew nothing about, which they say caused the accident and still got bird.

He may not have known about the medical condition but unless he is terminally stupid he must have known he was feeling drowsy/tired but still chose not to stop.

28

But like all conditions, they gradually get worse. My old boss has this and it got to the stage where he fell asleep whilst on the phone or talking to you in the office. Seriously, one minute OK, next he was snoring and when he woke about 10-20 seconds later, he didn’t believe he had been asleep. We had to prove it to him by doing silly things like putting chairs on his desk whilst he had 40 winks to eventually prove it had happened.

29

DoYouMeanMe?:
But like all conditions, they gradually get worse. My old boss has this and it got to the stage where he fell asleep whilst on the phone or talking to you in the office. Seriously, one minute OK, next he was snoring and when he woke about 10-20 seconds later, he didn’t believe he had been asleep. We had to prove it to him by doing silly things like putting chairs on his desk whilst he had 40 winks to eventually prove it had happened.

I did work with a guy at Demeulemeester who did that. it was quite alarming, and ignorant to be talking to him on the train and he would go to sleep. it makes you question if you are just boring them :smiley:

I saw him do it while fueling up one day.

Not sure if that is sleep apneoa or just lack of sleep though :open_mouth:

30

Clarkson fan:
Jimboy 124. I apologise for my mis-understanding of your post…I was wound up because some clown on The Sun online, in a post had referred to Driver Clark as a " murdering git". I stand Corrected.

I accept your apology mate … no worries…
:smiley:
And i dont no much about the disease. But i will do some reading about it now…

31

scanialady142:
Who is doom and gloom now■■?

Just have a look at all of your 135 posts and see how many are about death,tragedy or destruction!!

Then look at mine!!

and by the way "was it cold in the ground this morning “”

32

No chance then that the idiot just fell asleep at the wheel and was using it as an excuse to get away with murder because lets face it thats what he did.

33

Do you mean me,
that sounds more like an illness called Narcolepsy (or something very similar to that).
I do get warnings that I am reaching the stage where I need to sleep and so have time to get to a MSA etc.
And I certainly know when I have been to sleep!
dafman
that would be opinion, as I say above I KNOW when I need to stop.

I soppose that there may be a difference when you are aware that you have this illness and not just think that are a bit more tired than normal.

If in doubt , get it checked !

34

If it just happens like that instant then he must have had it happen before so he knew about it, if not and it comes on slowly then he could have stopped.

35

I think there’s a question about this condition on the driver’s medical form.

36

Wheel Nut:
Sharing a cabin on the ferry was a nightmare

I’ll bet he got used to you eventually though?! :wink:

37

Have just seen this post but am about to go to bed… will make a full post when I return.

(from someone who THOUGHT he had Sleep Aponea)

38

A mate of mine suffers with sleep apthingy and got prescribed some type of oxygen mask to sleep in.
His wife says its like sleeping with Darth Vader.
Brings a new meaning to come over to the dark side.

39

gerontius:
I think there’s a question about this condition on the driver’s medical form.

There is indeed. D4 medical form, page 6, section 6, question 5.

The question is, who is going to get themselves checked out if they suspect they are suffering from OSA. The DVLA would put a diagnosed driver off the road straightaway until treated. Who pays the bills then?

Also from accompanying DVLA leaflet INF4D (P10/11):

  1. Tiredness: Sleep Disorders
    Up to one fifth of accidents on motorways and other monotonous roads may be caused by drivers falling asleep at the wheel. Many accidents are attributed to “driver inattention” but once vehicle faults, traffic offences, poor road or weather conditions, alcohol and specific medical causes are excluded, closer inspection suggests driver sleepiness may be the cause. Evidence for this includes the apparent failure to respond to traffic and road conditions generally and, in particular, the absence of signs of emergency braking.

Driver sleepiness may be caused by modern life styles preventing adequate rest. It may be made worse by shift working combined with the monotonous nature of certain types of driving. Alertness fluctuates naturally throughout the day. Driving between 2am and 7am increases the risk of a sleep related accident. Most people also tend to be less alert during the mid-afternoon or after a heavy meal. All drivers need to address these problems responsibly.

However, some medical conditions may cause excessive sleepiness. These will greatly increase any normal tendency to sleepiness.

The most common medical cause is OBSTRUCTIVE SLEEP APNOEA SYNDROME (OSA). This condition occurs most commonly, but not exclusively, in overweight individuals, particularly those with a large neck size. Partners often complain about the snoring and notice that sufferers seem to have irregular breathing during sleep. Sufferers of OSA rarely wake from sleep feeling fully refreshed and tend to fall asleep easily when relaxing.

OSA is one of the few medical conditions that has been shown to increase significantly the risk of traffic accidents. However, once diagnosed, there is very effective treatment available, normally through specialist centres. The greatest danger is prior to diagnosis, when the significance of the symptoms is not appreciated. A road traffic accident may be the first clear indication of the condition. All drivers, especially professional drivers, and doctors need to be much more aware of the risks of sleepiness from this treatable cause.

Sleepiness can kill: Stay Alert

And from the Medical Practitioners Guide (PDF)

RESPIRATORY and SLEEP DISORDERS - Including Obstructive Sleep Apnoea syndrome causing excessive daytime / awake time sleepiness

GROUP 1 ENTITLEMENT ODL - CAR, M/CYCLE
Driving must cease until satisfactory control of symptoms has been attained, confirmed by medical opinion.

GROUP 2 ENTITLEMENT VOC - LGV/PCV SLEEP DISORDERS
Driving must cease until satisfactory control of symptoms has been attained, with ongoing compliance with treatment, confirmed by consultant / specialist opinion. Regular, normally annual, licensing review required.

40

I get a wave of tiredness hit me at about 3am if I,am on the Motorway or some droning Dual carriageway .
I know it’s coming and either pull off to rest , or If I want to get back , pull off and go cross country . Going cross country gets rid of it , more to think about and keep you alert.