Redline Racing I meant to add If you passed your cat B (car) before Jan 1997 you automatically got B +E. Anyone who passed since Jan 1997 Cat B can only pull a trailer up to 750kgs. For a trailer larger it is now a seperate (extra) test. These are plated gross weights by the way.
That is why there are a lot of people out their pulling these big trailers /horseboxes etc. unlicensed.
dennisw1:
a 500Bhp, 16 speed actros super space cab might be overkill for pulling a camping trailer.
Maybe, but I would still like to see it. 
There are some silly quirks with the licencing.
I mean as i passed after 1997 i dont have B+E, so i couldnt for example drive a 3.5t sprinter with a 900kg trailer on it.
But i could put both the sprinter and the trailer onto the back of a rigid HGV and drive that
I can drive a Sprinter van, but the same vehicle as a minibus, no.
dennisw1:
I can drive a Sprinter van, but the same vehicle as a minibus, no.
You can, so long as you dont get paid. Would it change your driving style if you were getting something for it 
Toploadertom:
You can, so long as you dont get paid. Would it change your driving style if you were getting something for it
You don’t get the D1 (minibus) category on the post-1997 licences.
mrpj:
Toploadertom:
You can, so long as you dont get paid. Would it change your driving style if you were getting something for itYou don’t get the D1 (minibus) category on the post-1997 licences.
You can drive one so long as it is not for hire or reward. This from DVLA:
Drivers who do not have minibus entitlement (Category D1)
If your driving licence does not allow you to drive minibuses, there are certain circumstances where you still may be able to do so.You may drive a minibus with up to 16 passenger seats if:
i) you drive on behalf of a non commercial body for social purposes but not for hire or reward, unless operating under a permit;
ii) you are aged 21;
iii) you have held a car (category B) licence for at least 2 years;
iv) you are providing your service on a voluntary basis; and
v) the minibus maximum weight is not more than 3.5 tonnes excluding any specialist equipment for the carriage of disabled passengers. Minibuses up to 4.25 tonnes will be permitted in certain circumstances.
vi)if you are aged 70 and over, you are able to meet the health standards for driving a vehicle (i.e. minibus) which comes within the D1 class;
When driving a minibus under these conditions you may not receive any payment or consideration for doing so other than out of pocket expenses or tow any size trailer; you may only drive minibuses in this country.
Drivers aged 70 or over will need to make a special application which involves meeting higher medical standards.
I stand corrected 
Well technically you’re both right.
You don’t get D1 on post 1997 car licences, but you do need it on there to drive a D1 vehicle.
HOWEVER You can have it added so long as you meet the medical requirements for vocational licences. You then send off you licence to the DVLA who will add the D1 entitlement along with the 101 restriction.
So no i can’t drive one as i dont have D1 on my licence, but i could have it added as i’ve already met the medical requirements.
If you just had a car licence and wanted to drive D1 then you’d need to take a medical and send it off with your licence.
Important thing is you’re licence must show D1 as an entitlement.
The most stupid one has to be class one drivers with a Drawbar restriction.
They can drive any Wagon and drag drawbar, but not an Artic.
Fair enough, but here’s the daft bit.
You could take the same wagon and drag to a test station and take a C+E test in it, if you pass you can then drive Artics. If you fail then you can just drive your same wagon and drag as usual! 
Toploadertom be careful how you interpretate the regs.
Yes since 1997 without D1 you can drive a minibus up to 16 passenger seats But only for a voluntary organisation/charity etc. If you are a paid worker for that organisation it would not be legal.
It would not be correct to drive a firms minibus or for a family holiday etc.
you cannot take one abroad without D1(full).
I also think a lot of - how can I put it - european drivers driving minibuses over here are not licensed as unless they passed the D1 they are driving on a cat B.
disgo:
I also think a lot of - how can I put it - european drivers driving minibuses over here are not licensed as unless they passed the D1 they are driving on a cat B.
I’ve often wondered about the British drivers who drive minibuses for these taxi companies, how many of them have a full D1 not just the ‘not for hire and reward’ they got when they passed their car test.
That’s why a lot of them stick to 8 passenger seats like the hotel courtesey buses.
disgo:
It would not be correct to drive a firms minibus or for a family holiday etc.
So I couldnt rent one to take the family on holiday? 
only ‘IF’ you had D1 (101) on your licence 
Toploader,depends when you passed your cat B test. Pre Jan 1997 yep you can hire one privately for your holsor take your mates to a footy match etc,as long as they don’t pay you.Because you would have inherited D1 when you became 21 years of age. (Code 101 not for hire and reward).
If you passed your Cat b after jan 1997 no.You can only drive a minibus for a voluntary organisation as per your post clause 1 etc).
As dennisw1 stated yes you can apply for D1 (passing medical) but still you could only drive one as per your post clause 1 etc. Otherwise you would need to be on l plates,accompanying driver etc until test is passed.
Interestingly enough if your firm carries drivers around in a minibus from the docks to the yard for instance they must have unrestricted d1(test passed)as that would come under hire and reward as the journey is part of someones business.
we seem to have hijacked this post,do you want to start another one relevant?
Can a driver who has a class 2 rigid licence drive just the tractor unit of an articulated lorry?
Going back to the original question - I double checked with the driving examiners who confirmed that with the laws as they stand today you have to have a Class 1 (Cat C + E) to drive a tractory unit - with or without the fifth wheel in place.
That’s it in a nutshell.
Or it will be until they change the rules AGAIN
Mothertrucker:
Can a driver who has a class 2 rigid licence drive just the tractor unit of an articulated lorry?Going back to the original question - I double checked with the driving examiners who confirmed that with the laws as they stand today you have to have a Class 1 (Cat C + E) to drive a tractory unit - with or without the fifth wheel in place.
That’s it in a nutshell.
Or it will be until they change the rules AGAIN
They should stick to examining the drivers and not confuse themselves with the actual laws.
Why would you need the E classification if no trailer is being pulled? Under their reasoning you would also need a C+E to drive a rigid with a draw-bar hitch attached.
You might like to point those driving examiners to this website, belonging to Cheshire Police.
On that page it has the following.
CATEGORY C
Goods vehicles exceeding 3.5 tonnes MAM.
Can draw a trailer of up to 750 kg MAM. Covers all rigid vehicles.
Also tractor units with no semi-trailer attached. Minimum Age 21yrs
Which is one of the reasons they changed to the C+E system rather than 1 & 2.
Sounds like they’re getting confused with the old system TBH, i mean if you need a C+E to drive a Tractor unit ‘without’ the 5th wheel then by the same reasoning you need a C+E to drive any Rigid as it has the potential to have a tow coupling fitted!
Actually the MAN TGA we have a work has a tow coupling behind the front number plate (as many trucks do) Do i need a C+E for that? And my mini also has the Potential to have a towbar fitted, so i must need a B+E for that?
A tractor unit is a very short rigid when there is no trailer attached. The examiners you spoke to are just plain wrong.
I guess there are good and bad examiners though, i mean the two at my local test centre, one has driven everything, from fire engines, continental C+E work, service busses, coaches etc etc. The other has done a bit of coach driving and has also passed a C+E…
The law states that a vehicle that is capable of pulling a trailer in your case ( a fifth wheel atachment ) still remains a class 1 vehicle because there is nothing stopping you from delivering a trailer then returning solo but if you are in any dobut then contact your local V.O.S.A. office for clarifercation if they say you dan then you have had it from the horses mouth so as to speak i am not saying anyone is wrong but i am not saying anyone is right remember it’s your licence guard it with care
NIGHTFLYER:
The law states that a vehicle that is capable of pulling a trailer in your case ( a fifth wheel atachment ) still remains a class 1 vehicle because there is nothing stopping you from delivering a trailer then returning solo but if you are in any dobut then contact your local V.O.S.A. office for clarifercation if they say you dan then you have had it from the horses mouth so as to speak i am not saying anyone is wrong but i am not saying anyone is right remember it’s your licence guard it with care
“Class 1” is meaningless. “Class 1” doesn’t exist any more. It’s a “Category C” vehicle (a goods vehicle with a MAM greater than 7500 kg). It’s only a “Category C+E” vehicle (a goods vehicle with a MAM greater than 7500 kg towing a trailer with a MAM greater than 750 kg) if you attach a trailer.
You only need to take off the fifth wheel if you want to drive it on a C1 license.