AlexWignall:
If Foreign Haulers decide to operate six axle combinations at a commercial disadvantage in France what concern of that is mine?
The OP wants a tax system that benifits the UK and hopefully UK Hauliers. All I have done is suggest one. If you think my idea is so bad why don’t you suggest a better one?
W
i simply think your idea of making trucks that visit the uk have 6 axles just to be responsible is an expensive waste of money and pointless, i agree that the tax system is unfair and i posted earlier that i would pay a vignette type tax if it was for all trucks.
so my basic idea would be,
scrap uk road tax for trucks then EVERY truck driving in the uk both foreign and british should pay a fixed rate per day, maybe even a little more for 4x2 foreigners who would be doing more damage to the road system, then uk based hauliers could buy the vignette monthly or yearly and get a discount like the dutch and belgies do and uk hauliers who go over the water wouldn’t need to pay for the days or weeks they are out of the country so enabling them to compete with the foreigners.
it would also put an end to the “tax the foreigner” issue as everyone would pay fairly
Mike-C:
The major drawback with the idea of the UK looking after its own interests is its EU membership. Everything is done for the good of ‘the community’, which is supposed to be member states, but in reality is global/multinatioal business’s.
I don’t agree with that. I think that EU requirements are just excuses for your politicans. And not yonly yours. We have exactly the same in Poland - for example since we joined EU, all burger vans disapeared, as according to the Polish goverment “EU rules do not allow selling food in places which do not have running water”. How then whole Europe is full of Burger vans?
It was the same when they replaced signs informing you that you enter the build up area - it used to be white sign with the town/village name on it, now we have this houses symbol like in NL or somewhere.
I remember walking with my dad on the market square and there was some TV reporter asking people on their opinions about dad. My dad said “if this is EU requirement, why they don’t focus on something much more danger, such like English driving on the left?”
Somehow they did not broadcasted it
Anyway: this is just an excuse. You can easily form a system, when foreigners have to pay, and even when foreigners have to pay more. See, your road tax system. Rename it to “road vignette” and add daily, weekly and monthly tax disc, which will be off course significantly more expensive per day. Problem solved.
That was a vignette system in Poland - everyone had to buy it, but Polish haulier was buying yearly vignette and Coffeeholic who was coming to Poland for two days was buying two 24 hours vignetes or something (I am not really familar with the system, I was never in Poland on the lorry). What do you think, who was paying more for a privillege of using Polish roads for 24 hours? Off course our very Coffee from this forum
welshboyinspain:
i simply think your idea of making trucks that visit the uk have 6 axles just to be responsible is an expensive waste of money and pointless
It will be also illegal. And it has nothing to do with EU rules but with the Vienna convention, which states that if the vehicle is legal in one member country, it’s legal in other.
This is why you can drive your RHD lorry in Poland, even if it’s illegal in Poland to have RHD car. They cannot do nothing to you, because it’s legal in UK, and both countries are signataries of Vienna Convention.
welshboyinspain:
i simply think your idea of making trucks that visit the uk have 6 axles just to be responsible is an expensive waste of money and pointless
It will be also illegal. And it has nothing to do with EU rules but with the Vienna convention, which states that if the vehicle is legal in one member country, it’s legal in other.
This is why you can drive your RHD lorry in Poland, even if it’s illegal in Poland to have RHD car. They cannot do nothing to you, because it’s legal in UK, and both countries are signataries of Vienna Convention.
Thank you Orys,
What I did suggest in my original post is that 5 axle combinations plated to 40t (popular with foreign hauliers as I’m sure you know) could be taxed considerably more than 6 axle combinations plated to 44t (as used by many British hauliers) That tax could be collected via a MAUT type system.
All you might of seen of this thread are the ideas going of at tangents including the one where I would ‘make’ foreign trucks be ‘responsible’ or possibly ban them all together.
Just the usual cut and thrust of an imternet forum, I’ve even had WBIS quote a watered down version of my own idea back at me
“charge a little more for 4x2 foreigners”
I have noticed that Polish people are not particulary daft and If their government is installing a MAUT system that might benifit it’s national hauliers. My idea might not be to far off the mark after all.
So far the biggest benefitient of the MAUT system is company, who install them charging our goverment kidney and leg for it…
As it comes to goverment orders, Polish people ARE daft. We recently build a motorway in the middle of nothing, at the flat fields of beautiful Wielkopolska, and a kilometer of this motorway costs almost as much as a mile of new M74 with all its viaducts, bridges and junctions
orys:
As it comes to goverment orders, Polish people ARE daft. We recently build a motorway in the middle of nothing, at the flat fields of beautiful Wielkopolska, and a kilometer of this motorway costs almost as much as a mile of new M74 with all its viaducts, bridges and junctions
How about that motorway building business with the Chinese?
(I am not laughing too loud, I know where I’m from)
orys:
your road tax system. Rename it to “road vignette” and add daily, weekly and monthly tax disc,
Agree, that should do the job. Just that UK govt like to have and pay few mil for an “independent review”.
And if we could pay by text message they did not have to print the stupid stickers that you cann’t peel off the windscreen.
orys:
So far the biggest benefitient of the MAUT system is company, who install them charging our goverment kidney and leg for it…
As it comes to goverment orders, Polish people ARE daft. We recently build a motorway in the middle of nothing, at the flat fields of beautiful Wielkopolska, and a kilometer of this motorway costs almost as much as a mile of new M74 with all its viaducts, bridges and junctions
Well thats ok then. Poland is going to fit right into the EU…
The French government has confirmed it will introduce a distance-based tax on lorries at the beginning of 2013. The confirmation follows a legal challenge to the government’s decision to award the contract for collecting the tolls to an Italian company. The tax will apply to all lorries using national roads and some local roads.
Poland also introduced a distance-based lorry charge on parts of its national road network earlier this month. The system requires all vehicles over 3.5 tonnes using a network of 1,560 kilometres of national roads, express roads and motorways to be equipped with a tracking device. Some 350,000 on-board units have been distributed. The level of the toll varies according to vehicle weight and emissions class.
July 2011
The idea of road pricing for foreign vehicles has been muted for many years, the problem being that we do not have a level field, neither here or in mainland Europe. There are too many variables, we are not a Transit Country as such, unlike France Germany and Belgium. (Others are available) In the UK we do not pay separate trailer tax as in the rest of Europe. We have lower social costs. We have a strong economy.
It was already mentioned that our 5 axle trucks pay more road tax than the home grown 3 + 3, for years the UK dragged behind Europe. Now it seems the French are taking a leaf from our own book.
France has been 38 tonne on 4 axles for many years, Germany was 36 while we messed about at 32500.
For me, the simplest way to raise revenue from foreign registered vehicles would be to reintroduce the 200 litre fuel limit at the ports, because of EU law, we would have to limit our own vehicles too. If you bring in more, you will pay the UK fuel tax of the day. This can work twofold for our economy. Pavlek and Pierre may say ■■■■■■■■ to that and send their trailers unaccompanied, or they will bite the bullet and buy fuel in the UK.
I found this study which was done in 2007 and it shows the fuel revenue we could be missing out on.
If the estimated 1058 million vehicle kilometres run by foreign-registered lorries in 2006 had been run using diesel fuel purchased in the UK at an average level of fuel efficiency, an extra £177 million in duty would have been raised for the UK Exchequer (£201 million at the duty rate in October 2007).
I can’t say my idea was very genuine. I read about something similar ages ago but I did wonder what other TNUK members would think about it.
I thought about suggesting a limit on imported fuel but I just assumed it would be illeagal under EU law. Perhaps if every member country has a limit it wouldn’t be illeagal?
What struck me this morning is that German Hauliers may not benifit from the MAUT but I think German Truck and Bus manufactuers might.
I can’t say my idea was very genuine. I read about something similar ages ago but I did wonder what other TNUK members would think about it.
I thought about suggesting a limit on imported fuel but I just assumed it would be illeagal under EU law. Perhaps if every member country has a limit it wouldn’t be illeagal?
What struck me this morning is that German Hauliers may not benifit from the MAUT but I think German Truck and Bus manufactuers might.
I wonder if anyone has any thoughts about that?
W
One German truck and bus manufacturer certainly benefited. Mercedes Benz who own Daimler AG built the gantries, sensors and toll collect machines
who would be doing more damage to the road system, then uk based hauliers could buy the vignette monthly or yearly and get a discount like the dutch and belgies do and uk hauliers who go over the water wouldn’t need to pay for the days or weeks they are out of the country so enabling them to compete with the foreigners.
