Thinking of becoming a owner driver help please

[wheel_nut]

I can fight my own battles without Rob Knapp and as I am not at war with anyone let me use a Dragons Den term. “Let me tell you where I am at”

A freight forwarder, a forwarding agent is in my opinion the same thing as a clearing house. From a 1943 government site which is still used today. I took this snip of a document describing clearing houses.

My hon friend has come to the conclusion that, in general, he can operate the road haulage scheme most effectively and economically by using to the full the organisation of the controlled road haulage firms themselves and that he would not be justified in arranging for the general employment of intermediaries between the road haulage organisation and the Government Departments or other consignors of traffic.

These intermediaries were the old companies who consolidated the loads for the freighter companies before Road, Rail & Shipping were nationalised. My own employment began with a haulage company who had a subsidiary called Humber Carting Agency. HCA rented an office on King George Dock in Hull and took all the work from a local shipping company. My company operated 8 trucks but we were regularly involved in 150 movements of timber and steel from Hull or Goole docks. From this 150 movements per day, the company was quite well off as they were taking a large percentage for basically answering the telephone and writing a gate pass.

On another thread I mentioned a gentleman called Alf Battams, Archie Paice knew him personally as I did. I grew up with his children and the youngest bought my Grandparents house. Alf was certainly a Gentleman, but he did not go to work at 6.30 and return at 8pm for the fun of it, he was a busy and quite rich businessman to whom 10 or 20% was not excessive.

As we are getting upset about the name of the companies we get work from, freight forwarder, forwarding agent, clearing house, logistic operator or customs agent. I argue they are all the same thing, as I will argue the invoice insurance you have is actually called finance factoring and is the next step up from using a pawnbroker.

A new business plan using factoring is bound to fail, or at least fail to reach it’s full potential, how can it? the clearing house is taking a slice of the cake, the pawnbroker wants a piece, the fuel company want cash up front, the monthly insurance payments are another type of loan and the truck on lease or HP is incurring massive interest payments.

So in my long experience, a quote that works for me.

What’s in a name? that which we call a rose. By any other name would smell as sweet.

If anyone reads many of my posts, if anyone read Robs posts, you may find if you ignore the user names and look at what is written, it might make some sense.

How many remember the young lad who knew it all about tippers, bought a new Hino and discovered his verbal contract was worthless? How many remember the lad from Lincolnshire who hated experienced old men and then lost his bottle in Switzerland? Does the story about the new all singing Volvo with a Thermoking Tripac ring any bells?

I get no satisfaction from saying “I told you so”, but if anyone comes on and asks nicely for advice, then I will try my best to point him in the right direction as my only passion is transport. If that direction means a quick phone call to a DGSA, driving assessor or instructor, the finance director of a major truck manufacturer or a simple request for a contact number or name at a company who may have some ad hoc work in the silly season. I will be the first one to help them.

As I mentioned in another post, paul b has a vast amount of experience running his own business, I have a vast amount of haulage experience and there are older and wiser men to call upon for free advice.

As I mentioned Dragons Den at the top of this post. I will tell you where I am now, that is OUT

[rob_k]

Malc I wasn’t fighting any of your “battles”, I was just saying how it is/was.

[goaty]

Wheel Nut:
I can fight my own battles without Rob Knapp and as I am not at war with anyone let me use a Dragons Den term. “Let me tell you where I am at”

I didn’t realise you two were a tag team

On another thread I mentioned a gentleman called Alf Battams, Archie Paice knew him personally as I did. I grew up with his children and the youngest bought my Grandparents house. Alf was certainly a Gentleman, but he did not go to work at 6.30 and return at 8pm for the fun of it, he was a busy and quite rich businessman to whom 10 or 20% was not excessive.

I have no idea who Mr Battams is/was, I can ask an ex-pat Hullite mate of mine who appears to be of a similar vintage to yourself.
The less scrupulous of them still ■■■■ the job for similar figuires today. You don’t HAVE to work for them though.

As we are getting upset about the name of the companies we get work from, freight forwarder, forwarding agent, clearing house, logistic operator or customs agent. I argue they are all the same thing,

But where I do business, a clearing house is basically a haulier without any trucks, that keeps the fat of the job and passes whats left onto the unwarey or [zb] stupid.

as I will argue the invoice insurance you have is actually called finance factoring and is the next step up from using a pawnbroker.

Spot on Wheelnut, I use them with “Goaty Trucking”, giving me 90% cover from the rigours of the “Worst recession in history”.

A new business plan using factoring is bound to fail, or at least fail to reach it’s full potential, how can it?

My business plan never left my head. I’m sorry to be the fly in the ointment but so far so good.
Honey moon period ? At what point does this become a memory ? Ask me in another 12 months perhaps.

the clearing house is taking a slice of the cake,

But where I do business, a clearing house is basically a haulier without any trucks, that keeps the fat of the job and passes whats left onto the unwarey or [zb] stupid.

What about my other customers, the ones where I get the first bite of the cherry ?

the fuel company want cash up front,

Terms, 7 to 14 days. Hence the short term need to factor.

the monthly insurance payments are another type of loan

All part of the factoring deal.

and the truck on lease or HP is incurring massive interest payments.

Have you seen what I’ve been driving for the last year ?

So in my long experience, a quote that works for me.

What’s in a name? that which we call a rose. By any other name would smell as sweet.

Touche, so once again…

But where I do business, a clearing house is basically a haulier without any trucks, that keeps the fat of the job and passes whats left onto the unwarey or [zb] stupid.

[goaty]

Double post, ■■■■■■■ mouse.

[goaty]

Rob K:

Goaty:

Rob K:
Not using freight forwarders surely doesn’t require any explanation Goaty. Even the most stupid person could see the main problem with that without needing it pointing out. Please, engage some brains yeah.

Special, I think you’re getting your Clearing Houses mixed up with your Freight Forwarders, yeah

I’m not sure how it works in your neck of the woods (as your not prepared to enlighten us as to what it is you actually do, that gives you such an elevated position over us mere O/D’s, to dispense your jealous vitriol), But where I do business, a clearing house is basically a haulier without any trucks, that keeps the fat of the job and passes whats left onto the unwarey or [zb] stupid.

A Freight Forwarder, at least the ones I do business with manages the movement of goods from A to B, generally involving 2 different countries.

Even Clearing Houses can be a useful source of work as long as they’ve been thoroughly checked out first.
(As I insure my invoices this little saga is done on my behalf anyway.)

So, smart arse my question is valid, why avoid Freight Forwarders

You’ve got into way too much unnecessary detail. The simple facts are that they (both) take far too much of the wedge and that’s why they should be avoided. Of course, you could prove me wrong by providing details of those forwarder’s that are offering good enough rates to make a decent profit on. Once again, I won’t hold my breath though!

Finally a glimmer of humour, Rob.
Yeah ■■■■ it i’ll copy my adress book and tariff’s on here, why not.

My point is that just because you’re an Owner Driver you don’t automatically have to be a Subby.

The F.F’s I work for are also customs clearance agents, shipping agents, etc. These co.s are, for the main not fussed about doing the haulage as they SEEM to be doing well enough driving desks.
This is a very sweeping statement i know but I can only speak from my experience.

[wheel_nut]

Rob K:
Malc I wasn’t fighting any of your “battles”, I was just saying how it is/was.

I realise that Rob, it was a precursor to any vitriol that may come later

Goaty has already answered and again I wish him luck. I wish anyone luck in making a living from transport. He even has his own customers and “gets the first bite of the cherry” which is everyone’s goal.

I keep saying I am not knocking anyone wanting to have a go, but I can and do offer warnings from my own experience and the experience of others. I know many owner drivers who started off with Haulage companies as subcontractors, companies like MAT Transport, Mammoet, Bowker, Nippress and Continental Cargo Carriers. A good friend worked for most of them and retired a happy man, no delusions of grandeur, changed his truck every 5 years and paid off his house before he died.

The original poster asked if it was worth it, he is 25, earning £500 per week and wants to do both his operators CPC. My advice would be do those CPC, whilst gaining 2 or 3 more years experience and see how the world wide recession looks then. And if he wants any good advice, it will be found on these forums, not at the commercial motor show

[goaty]

I have already said, possibly on another of these “Should I, shan’t I” threads, that becoming an o/d, imho, is first and foremost a business, not owning or the perception of owning a show truck.

If you are leaving a reasonably paid job with holidays, sick pay etc, then it’ll come as a big ■■■■■■■ shock when your first cheque bounces and you can’t meet the first payment on your 730 because you haven’t bothered to do your homework.

However, it IS possible to make a good income from your own enterprise, not easy, but possible.

I certainly don’t claim to have anywhere near all the answers.

Speaking about my own business, it has been a childhood ambition that never went away (apart from a brief interlude wearing “Bellbottoms”) and all through my time as an employed driver, this has been at the back of my mind.
The friends, colleagues and contacts made in this time have all been valuable in one form or another since I started on my own, fisrt time for 12 months in '03 and this time round since '06 as a freelance driver.

Like anything worthwhile you have to get off your arse and go looking for it.
This is now bearing fruit.

So in a perverse kinda way, I suppose we’re saying the same thing, although I do detect a big helping of bitterness from Rob K. Whether this is done only to bait people on an otherwise fantastic industry forum, only Rob can say.

As a point of interest Wheelnut, do you care to expand on your own experiences as an o/d - small haulier ? Particularly the reasons behind you calling it a day.

[wheel_nut]

Goaty:
As a point of interest Wheelnut, do you care to expand on your own experiences as an o/d - small haulier ? Particularly the reasons behind you calling it a day.

Not a problem talking about it. The company I subcontracted for was part of a major takeover, They had three suitors. Russell Davies, Bailee Freight Services and Lex as Transfleet. BFS got the company and things went from bad to worse, the planners were capping earnings down to about £1400 per week by taking on more and cheaper transport. We ended up running from Hull to Billingham, tipping and parking up, reload the next day and back to the dock for a set up. I took the opportunity to get out and went off to Greece with delusions of grandeur I was running an old nail later to be replaced by two old nails, the fuel bills and fines were more than the cheque after running money was deducted. I went and got a job but the bug was still there. I borrowed some money, in hindsight, not enough and bought a 6 wheel unit as most of my fines had been for running a bit heavy

Because it was cheaper to tax the truck, then that is what it got and for 3 years I did very well running ferry trailers off Hull docks for three or four companies, one paid very well but were never busy enough but I was normally the first one they called with a rush or impossible job. Occasionally there would be a trailer for Amsterdam or Antwerp and it was on one of these quick trips that I called into TTZ for a coffee. I met an old mate and was cajoled into doing a few trips to Turkey. It must have been the 33cl Primus bottles as the next thing I was applying for new Visas and to IRFO for permits again. I did 18 months backwards and forwards to Poland, Turkey, Morocco, Hungary and Romania. Things were going OK by keeping busy, between these trips I went back on the ferry trailers and I was picking my work.

Disaster struck 5 kilometres from the Romanian border on a rush job to Izmir with a load of JIT Perkins Engines from Peterborough. The trip turned into even more of a disaster when a pal came to rescue me with a four wheeled unit. I had loaded it heavy on the pin and at first the Hungarian Customs got us on the exit for being too heavy on the drive iirc, the alternative route took its toll on the old 111 and we zig zagged around the Balkans trying to get into another country, any other country Eventually on a very round about trip we entered Bulgaria from Yugoslavia. I do remember going over the Dam though . We got to Izmir and were met by some angry Turks in suits

Eventually we were tipped and I had a towbar made up in stanley bull to tow my truck home, it was ironic my engine had blown apart when in the back of the tilt was a full shoot of Perkins 250 Diesels We got the truck home after an eventful trip, but the money had all but gone, by the time I had paid the trailer hire, things were at an end.

I managed to beg an engine from another pal and fitted it myself over many nights while driving one of his lorries during the day for cash. It did do a few more trips in the UK but things were too tight, so when I was offered a bit of relief driving I jumped at the chance. I carved quite a niche for myself as I was known to be reasonably cheap, honest and could pull all the stops out when it mattered. To cap all that my two best friends and mentors in the transport game died within a couple of months of each other. I took the decision to get out and get a job. I did eventually pay all my bills and am much wiser after the event.

It was good while it lasted but I was ill prepared for international breakdowns, employing drivers or getting out of Dover without passing Whitfield roundabout and it costing much more than £200

[5thwheel]

Wheelnut,

Ever thought of writing a book about your days as an OD?..might be a best seller!!

If you’ve got to take it,take it easy,

Rgds,

David

[daverist]

Silver_Surfer:
“I currently earn a take home of £500 per week”

Stick with what you are doing chief, I don’t mean to sound harsh but you sound a bit clueless.

read my is it fair above its very hard at moment i have a guy who runs me at moment we do about 2000 a week
so work is there but read a lot before going on own

[global]

Goaty:
… and this time round since '06 as a freelance driver.

Would be interested how you go about your freelancing Goaty! How you market your services, pricing structure etc etc. Presumably self employed? Perhaps without your own motor? Any snippets of information would be interesting.
Cheers.
global.

[newmercman]

An interesting thread, as a bonus I got the history of Mr W Nut

My views are as follows, the OP was on half term The best advice was don’t do it, followed by, start off with a cheap motor and keep costs down to a bare minimum.

Invoice insurance, or factoring, umm, not a fan, it may suit you Goaty, but I quoted for some work with a blue chip company, therefore 90 day credit terms were the norm I looked into factoring, the best deal I got was from my bank, the one with the black horse, that was 2% monthly, doesn’t seem much does it, just 2%, but take out a loan and interest rates are calculated annually, 2% a month equals 24% annually, now that’s a lot of money to spend just for the priveledge of working for somebody ‘legitimate’

[goaty]

global:

Goaty:
… and this time round since '06 as a freelance driver.

Would be interested how you go about your freelancing Goaty! How you market your services, pricing structure etc etc. Presumably self employed? Perhaps without your own motor? Any snippets of information would be interesting.
Cheers.
global.

Not been on much lately! I’ll pm you when I get a bit of spare time.

newmercman:
Invoice insurance, or factoring, umm, not a fan, it may suit you Goaty, but I quoted for some work with a blue chip company, therefore 90 day credit terms were the norm I looked into factoring, the best deal I got was from my bank, the one with the black horse, that was 2% monthly, doesn’t seem much does it, just 2%, but take out a loan and interest rates are calculated annually, 2% a month equals 24% annually, now that’s a lot of money to spend just for the priveledge of working for somebody ‘legitimate’

■■■■ me NMM, I think you did the right thing and told em to shove it!

At present I don’t have anyone on 90 days, the majority are 30 days end of month a couple are week 1 at the end of week 2.

The contract I have with Bibby’s has run it’s 15 month course and we are now in the 6 month notice period.

1, It allowed me to set up and run without risking any of my own money.

2, It gave me the confidence to deal with lots of different customers, all with their own foibles regarding payment terms and not feel tied to any one company/haulier, like so many other o/d’s are
(Thats not a slight on them, just my prefered way of doing things).

3, I can concentrate on other things, rather than spend half my time chasing ■■■■■■■ that don’t wanna pay! And I don’t sleep too badly at night either.

[newmercman]

I looked at Bibbys myself, they had a pretty good set up, for a factor credit checks and limits, 90% on receipt of invoice blah blah blah, but they wanted my whole sales ledger, I only wanted/needed one customer so it never happened, I was already working on 30 day terms so my main criteria was cashflow, in the end they accepted my T&Cs so all was well

[goaty]

newmercman:
I looked at Bibbys myself, they had a pretty good set up, for a factor credit checks and limits, 90% on receipt of invoice blah blah blah, but they wanted my whole sales ledger, I only wanted/needed one customer so it never happened, I was already working on 30 day terms so my main criteria was cashflow, in the end they accepted my T&Cs so all was well

A mate of mine…who also uses the aforementioned outfit opened another bank account, solely for customers with c.o.d. or short terms and never the twain shall meet!