For what its worth , if anybody takes my advice and are a Ltd Company or are thinking of going Ltd Company, DO NOT use theses so called “accountants” that offer packages to to do your accounting and book keeping. Do it yourself or get yourself an Accountant that you can get to know and have a working relationship with, preferably someone who has been recommended to you, they will treat you as an individual and not a number in order to fiddle you.
The mass marketed schemes offered by the so called “accountants” are nothing but a complete rip off. Think Accounting as they where is a prime example. Many people I know are now realising this and are being stung for hefty tax bills.
I have had a bill for £4000 + and not very happy I am in contact with hmrc as I got the bill I believe we need to stick together and get the agencies done for forcing drivers to go self employed so they don’t have to pay employers ni and holiday pay + the wtd ids Immingham adr network all use similar routes lets get them done I was paying £30.00 per week to get paid by esentual part of adr network and I want my money back they are all taking the p*** time to react
mal garner
malgarner:
I have had a bill for £4000 + and not very happy I am in contact with hmrc as I got the bill I believe we need to stick together and get the agencies done for forcing drivers to go self employed so they don’t have to pay employers ni and holiday pay + the wtd ids Immingham adr network all use similar routes lets get them done I was paying £30.00 per week to get paid by esentual part of adr network and I want my money back they are all taking the p*** time to react
mal garner
Am I the only one who thinks no one forced you to sign up to think accounting…
it’s possible you like a lot of drivers took the easy route to agy work by not managing their own affairs directly. Many agy drivers I’ve met where only interested in doing a job and getting a wage/payslip at the end of the week, and delegating the S/E bookkeeping to someone else. So that’s why MSC’s such as think where an easy option for them, and drivers where only too willing to sign on the dotted line thinking they would benefit more financially by working the agy S/E route. Now it seems HMRC are coming for monies due
It depends on how the courts define what is a managed service company. The legislation has many grey areas. Im sure many people believe also what you say pierre but Think quite clearly marketed their company as being not a msc provider. This was on their website and in their literature.HMRC are short on revenues so are trying to extract money from whoever they can. I have my own accountant and she takes care of all the book keeping and accounting. Think also did this for drivers but received the money direct from the agency
peirre don’t talk out the thing you sit on…yes nobody forced anyone to sign up with Think Accounting Lincoln
But I am sure most drivers on here like me had little knowledge of vat / tax etc etc
When I was looking to maximise my earnings by operating as a Ltd Co
I looked for a cost effective accountant to help me
That’s where I came across and was miss lead by Think Accounting offering me all the services I required for £23 a week
I assumed as professional accountants they would be acting in my best interests
When in actual fact they controlled the invoicing and collecting the money to hide the fact they scamming me out of the vat money
eventually when I discovered their racket they had been charging me over £3,000 a year
so if they had said from the start that their charges were so high then I would have never used them in the first place
and put myself at risk of being a managed company
Being PAYE or Ltd company driver both have plus and minus points when operated correctly
However the Ltd company drivers that are now getting big tax bills because of the these greedy persons have definatley
been well and truly stuffed
So peirre lets keep the information and advice on here positive, not I told you so…
at the end of the day we are all drivers
and should unite, help and assist each other as best we can
thanks
simon
mal garner
were you with Think Accounting / New Wave Accounting Lincoln ■■?
Or is HMRC taking action against other accountants
were you a Ltd company driver for more than 2 years ■■?
as this seems to be the cut off point
regards
simon
sbhep:
peirre don’t talk out the thing you sit on…yes nobody forced anyone to sign up with Think Accounting LincolnBut I am sure most drivers on here like me had little knowledge of vat / tax etc etc
When I was looking to maximise my earnings by operating as a Ltd Co
I looked for a cost effective accountant to help me
That’s where I came across and was miss lead by Think Accounting offering me all the services I required for £23 a week
I assumed as professional accountants they would be acting in my best interests
When in actual fact they controlled the invoicing and collecting the money to hide the fact they scamming me out of the vat money
eventually when I discovered their racket they had been charging me over £3,000 a year
so if they had said from the start that their charges were so high then I would have never used them in the first place
and put myself at risk of being a managed company
Being PAYE or Ltd company driver both have plus and minus points when operated correctly
However the Ltd company drivers that are now getting big tax bills because of the these greedy persons have definatley
been well and truly stuffedSo peirre lets keep the information and advice on here positive, not I told you so…
at the end of the day we are all drivers
and should unite, help and assist each other as best we can
thanks
simon
The reason you give for drivers using these type of companies is the actual reason that they shouldn’t, and the reason why they are gettting ripped off. TBH these type of companies are part of the reason that wages and conditions are still low. Drivers will never unite, if they had when these companies were first getting going they wouldn’t be around now and we’d all be better off.
Simon let me address your points one by one
sbhep:
peirre don’t talk out the thing you sit on…
I try not to talk out of it, it only make ■■■■■■■ noises
sbhep:
…yes nobody forced anyone to sign up with Think Accounting Lincoln
At least we agree on something 
sbhep:
When I was looking to maximise my earnings by operating as a Ltd Co
Me too, I was operating as a Ltd co for a few years so I had a head start before the idea became “trendy” and everyone jumped onto the bandwagon and these MSCs popped up, however the difference with me, was that I actually did my homework and decided that IF I was going to go down that route, it was I and I alone who had to get educated and figure out how to manage and run my own Ltd Cos finances BEFORE commencing trading. Because if HMRC was going to hold anyone responsible it was going to be ME. This is why with the help of a couple of the TN members and several FOC courses run by HMRCs business education unit (believe it or not HMRC will help you to make life easy). I even setup the Co the hard way, by myself without the aid of an accountant, registering the Co, dealing with VAT registration etc etc. So I was/am able to run a simplified Ltd Co doing the invoicing, accounting, VAT etc etc myself, something that takes around 10-30 mins a week, with only a visit to an accountant annually, to do the accounts. I used what very little knowledge of computers (self taught) and MS office to draw up from scratch spreadsheets, timesheets, Pdf docs and any other items I needed. Over the years Ive listened to dozens of drivers extoll the virtues of these MSCs inc Think accounting, Ive been asked if Id help individuals breakaway from these cos, sharing my templates, spending my own time with them to enable them to be confident enough to breakaway. Though half the time I found myself think Ive wasted my time because drivers whom I may have sat 2-3hrs explaining how easy it is to do, simply decided that they cant be bothered and would rather pay an MSC to do the work. Which can be frustrating to me if I`ve tried to help, only for them to throw it back in my face.
sbhep:
That’s where I came across and was miss lead by Think Accounting offering me all the services I required for £23 a weekI assumed as professional accountants they would be acting in my best interests
Their best interest (as with ANY company) is maximising THEIR profit, the more you make, the more they make.
The difference is I wasn`t paying anyone anything near £23 a week. The only person who got paid beside HMRC and me, was my accountant who charges a lot lot less per annum
sbhep:
When in actual fact they controlled the invoicing and collecting the money to hide the fact they scamming me out of the vat money
eventually when I discovered their racket they had been charging me over £3,000 a year
I guess you like the rest should have been more vigilant, monitored the details, asked more questions and not allowed them to scam you.
You may or may not have followed lemming like with the rest and allowed them to do it, as Ive stated previously, there are too many drivers who wanted the perks of Ltd Co driving, but who wasnt willing to put the work into managing their own affairs & only wanting a wage slip on their pocket each week without the headache
sbhep:
so if they had said from the start that their charges were so high then I would have never used them in the first place
Again you should have been more vigilant
sbhep:
However the Ltd company drivers that are now getting big tax bills because of the these greedy persons have definitely
been well and truly stuffed
see above
sbhep:
So peirre lets keep the information and advice on here positive, not I told you so…
If you acutely go to the trouble of reading my many posts on Ltd Co driving, I have always tried to advise people to get educated and manage their own finances. Not leaving the responsibility to other people inc MSCs but as Ive stated above people are not “willing to put the work into managing their own affairs & only wanting a wage slip on their pocket each week without the headache” and take the easy option.
Whether I believe that drivers who used MSCs where fools, or whether they should swallow the bitter pill, bend over MTFU and ultimately pay these bills that the HMRC are sending out, Ill leave that to the jury. Likewise I guess someone will ask “will peirre be getting one of these bills” … I dunno, I doubt it, but its not beyond the realms of possibility. But as I managed my own affairs from day 1, I suspect I may be way down the list of who HMRC come asking for back taxes
this is taken from a ex colleagues facebook who has been given a huge tax bill from being with think accounting…it may help some of you if you ring the below number
To all Self employed ltd company driver’s please share this msg if it doesn’t involve you maybe one of your friend’s or colleges and may benefit form this,
Think accounting has been deemed a M.S.C company by H.M.R.C and if you are unlucky enough like me you will have been sent a rather large tax bill !!!
My accountant has instructed the help of a solicitor to resolve this matter and the more people we can get the greater chance there is to resolve this and become better off with tax bill being paid and maybe compensation at the end of this…
The solicitor has asked MTC to mediate between us and them.
If this does involve you please contact MTC Advice, stating it is about the Think accounting/H.M.R.C tax bill
MTC Advice.
Leeds office
01132 435 583
My accountant has instructed the help of a solicitor to resolve this matter and the more people we can get the greater chance there is to resolve this and become better off with tax bill being paid and maybe compensation at the end of this…
Ahh, there we go. I didn’t think it would be long until the ol’ compo was mentioned…
I also presume that the word ‘resolve’ in this context actually means ‘hopefully get out of what we owe on a technicality’.
Olog Hai:
Ahh, there we go. I didn’t think it would be long until the ol’ compo was mentioned…I also presume that the word ‘resolve’ in this context actually means ‘hopefully get out of what we owe on a technicality’.
+1
I wonder when the penny will drop, & those drivers who used MSC’s will realise that they are the person responsible for their companies liabilities and not the MSC.
Think Accounting are NOT a Managed Service Company, they are deemed by HMRC to be a Managed Service Company PROVIDER. The Managed Service Company is the company that the driver has formed. For any company to be deemed a Managed Service Company there has to be a Managed Service Company PROVIDER involved, hence Think Accounting. The legislation allows the collection of monies by HMRC on a joint and several basis. Firstly they will try and recover monies from the company, most contractor drivers companies will have little money so then HMRC will recover the monies from the Director of the company. They can also recover monies on a joint and several basis from the Directors of Think Accounting and even the Agencies involved. All persons who have received tax bills can appeal the decision, firstly for an employee of HMRC who has had nothing to do with the original decision then an independent tribunal.
There is one question I would ask from any members on here who have been affected by this mess, and its if you became Vat registered through Think Accounting on the Flat Rate Scheme, was there a lengthy delay in becoming Vat registered?
Thanks for the reply peirre still negative …but very impressed you did your own accounts
and yes I was blinkered to what was going off…but I did assume professional accountants you pay a fee too act in your best interest not theirs
its abit like you could go out and buy dentist kit on the eblag and repair your own teeth,
but to save all the hastle you go to the dentist and hand over the cash sit back and relax… and you don’t expect the fillings to fall out two weeks latter
Back to think accounting and the current state of play
I really hope everyone with the big tax bills can find a loophole or apportion the blame to Think
But I would guess Think Accounting now has no assets and can just fold up …ending the story
We all know New Wave Accounting are the same crew however on paper they are totally new and seperate company so would not be liable for any claims or legal action against Think Accounting
so sadly they were one step ahead of the game before it even kicked off
keep sharing any info
regards
Simon
Seems to me if you use an MSC to do your invoicing you also need a separate independant accountant.
That doesn’t make it any more legal in the eyes of the HMRC. The tests applied is whether someone tells you where you’re working, when you’re working, what to do when you’re at that work, who can do it (you can’t send in someone else in your stead).
In all my time I’ve only come across one driver working as Ltd for an agency like other drivers do who meets all of that criteria because he effectively ran a small agency with a handful of people himself so used to send us in to do work he’d been booked for with the agency in question.
Two of my colleagues have received unwelcome Christmas pressies from HMRC with regards to their time with Think. One got a bill for over 9 grand, the other had a bill for £19500 land on his doorstep last Monday! The clock is ticking.
bah ive had the dreaded letter and quite a few of my ex collegues have too luckily for me if you can call it that my bill is in the hundreds…most of my collegues are 12,13,14 thousand plus… cracking xmas pressie
morphie:
bah ive had the dreaded letter and quite a few of my ex collegues have too luckily for me if you can call it that my bill is in the hundreds…most of my collegues are 12,13,14 thousand plus… cracking xmas pressie
As a matter of interest, what are you doing about your bill? Are you paying it, or challenging it? How about your colleagues, what are they doing? Genuinely interested as I’m probably going to receive one soon.
according to the lady at hmrc i spoke to yesterday it isnt technically a bill just a notice of calculations the bills will follow shortly but expect them to be for the same ammounts owed. She stated there will be information as to where to go from there in with these letters. i dont know what im doing at this moment in time i need to seek advice of some sort and see what can be done. im not sure theres anything that can im lucky mine was a few hundred so at worst if i have to pay it its more manageable than thousands. were going to get our heads together and see what we can sort
Does anybody understand implications if hypothetically i have ltd company in Luxenburg or IOM and work through it here ?