Juddian:
This old dual carriageway no different to a motorway chestnut has to be put to bed.
On duals you will find cross roads, tractors and other slow moving vehicles, laybys some with burger vans or other roadside traders, junctions with short or no slip or acceleration lane at all, steep gradients often just after roundabouts and junctions,cyclists, pedestrians, bus stops, you might even find horse drawn vehicles, industrial areas with direct road access, on the A14 near Ellington you’ll find a haulage yard with vehicles turning left onto the eastbound carriageways from a standing start, at one time they used to turn right out of there not sure they do that anymore.
Those are just a few examples of the top of me head, i’m sure there are many more, none of the above apply to motorways, hence why the normal lorry driver is expecting the unexpected but on motorways there should be easier travel…note i haven’t included car/van drivers in the comment, we are after all according to the name of this very forum, professional.
Driving in the early hours there is little or no traffic on whatever road you travel on but does that mean you switch off ?
We can have arguments until we are blue in the face and agree to disagree but the point being as you correctly say is that we are professional and so even with not full attention we will see more than the average car driver .
Smart motorways have their problems which urgently need to be addressed but as drivers be they professional or not observation needs to happen at all times to stop these terrible things from happening.
Juddian:
This old dual carriageway no different to a motorway chestnut has to be put to bed.
On duals you will find cross roads, tractors and other slow moving vehicles, laybys some with burger vans or other roadside traders, junctions with short or no slip or acceleration lane at all, steep gradients often just after roundabouts and junctions,cyclists, pedestrians, bus stops, you might even find horse drawn vehicles, industrial areas with direct road access, on the A14 near Ellington you’ll find a haulage yard with vehicles turning left onto the eastbound carriageways from a standing start, at one time they used to turn right out of there not sure they do that anymore.
Those are just a few examples of the top of me head, i’m sure there are many more, none of the above apply to motorways, hence why the normal lorry driver is expecting the unexpected but on motorways there should be easier travel…note i haven’t included car/van drivers in the comment, we are after all according to the name of this very forum, professional.
It bugs me when people use the “dual carraigeway” argument, until recently I never figured out why.
Partly for the reasons you described above, duals arent the high speed inter urban network that motorways were designed to be. They have their own inherent dangers.
Motorways were designed with a hard shoulder to create a “safe” space and remove their primary risk, a live lane obstruction. Removing this safety feature and replacing it with technology that doesnt work was bound to fail.
Saying a non hard shoulder motorway is as safe as a dual carriageway is wrong, it should be said they’re just as dangerous.
Juddian:
This old dual carriageway no different to a motorway chestnut has to be put to bed.
On duals you will find cross roads, tractors and other slow moving vehicles, laybys some with burger vans or other roadside traders, junctions with short or no slip or acceleration lane at all, steep gradients often just after roundabouts and junctions,cyclists, pedestrians, bus stops, you might even find horse drawn vehicles, industrial areas with direct road access, on the A14 near Ellington you’ll find a haulage yard with vehicles turning left onto the eastbound carriageways from a standing start, at one time they used to turn right out of there not sure they do that anymore.
Those are just a few examples of the top of me head, i’m sure there are many more, none of the above apply to motorways, hence why the normal lorry driver is expecting the unexpected but on motorways there should be easier travel…note i haven’t included car/van drivers in the comment, we are after all according to the name of this very forum, professional.
It bugs me when people use the “dual carraigeway” argument, until recently I never figured out why.
Partly for the reasons you described above, duals arent the high speed inter urban network that motorways were designed to be. They have their own inherent dangers.
Motorways were designed with a hard shoulder to create a “safe” space and remove their primary risk, a live lane obstruction. Removing this safety feature and replacing it with technology that doesnt work was bound to fail.
Saying a non hard shoulder motorway is as safe as a dual carriageway is wrong, it should be said they’re just as dangerous.
I agree but we are used to motorways having a hard shoulder so taking that away is a shock to the system.
If we had got used to motorways not having hard shoulders but plenty of safe refuge areas then we would not be having this discussion.
The other thing is there is a lot more traffic about than when motorways were first introduced so a safe cost effective solution is required to ease congestion and as was said the trial on the m42 worked well the main problem is that the format for the m42 has not been rolled out across the rest of the areas where they are using smart motorways.
What is the solution to the problem , we’ll if any of us could answer that then we’re in the wrong job but in the meantime we have to make the best of the situation we find ourselves in .
if h&s found it vital for road safety to have a hard shoulder on motorways back in the 70`S when there was no volume of traffic compared to modern times,then by what logic can they decide that with 10 times the volume of traffic today,that its safe to remove the hard shoulder from any motorway in the uk?
is that not the bottom line cameras and wombles or not? as they are basically as useful as ■■■■ on a bull when something goes wrong.
if there never were hard shoulders in the first place then fair enough,but its a no brainer for logic to do away with them other than another excuse for a camera fine.
Juddian:
This old dual carriageway no different to a motorway chestnut has to be put to bed.
On duals you will find cross roads, tractors and other slow moving vehicles, laybys some with burger vans or other roadside traders, junctions with short or no slip or acceleration lane at all, steep gradients often just after roundabouts and junctions,cyclists, pedestrians, bus stops, you might even find horse drawn vehicles, industrial areas with direct road access, on the A14 near Ellington you’ll find a haulage yard with vehicles turning left onto the eastbound carriageways from a standing start, at one time they used to turn right out of there not sure they do that anymore.
Those are just a few examples of the top of me head, i’m sure there are many more, none of the above apply to motorways, hence why the normal lorry driver is expecting the unexpected but on motorways there should be easier travel…note i haven’t included car/van drivers in the comment, we are after all according to the name of this very forum, professional.
It bugs me when people use the “dual carraigeway” argument, until recently I never figured out why.
Partly for the reasons you described above, duals arent the high speed inter urban network that motorways were designed to be. They have their own inherent dangers.
Motorways were designed with a hard shoulder to create a “safe” space and remove their primary risk, a live lane obstruction. Removing this safety feature and replacing it with technology that doesnt work was bound to fail.
Saying a non hard shoulder motorway is as safe as a dual carriageway is wrong, it should be said they’re just as dangerous.
I agree but we are used to motorways having a hard shoulder so taking that away is a shock to the system.
If we had got used to motorways not having hard shoulders but plenty of safe refuge areas then we would not be having this discussion.
The other thing is there is a lot more traffic about than when motorways were first introduced so a safe cost effective solution is required to ease congestion and as was said the trial on the m42 worked well the main problem is that the format for the m42 has not been rolled out across the rest of the areas where they are using smart motorways.
What is the solution to the problem , we’ll if any of us could answer that then we’re in the wrong job but in the meantime we have to make the best of the situation we find ourselves in .
The solution IS remarkably easy, a full hard shoulder, but for various reasons (!) the Gov won’t pay for it.
As regards dual carriageways, maybe some thought should be given to a hard shoulder on some of those too. For example, if you widened the A14, you could add a hard shoulder and keep the two running lanes, happy days.
We can’t keep building out of congestion, because the more we build roads the more they fill up with cars, you used to hear this argument some years ago but not any more uh
A large difference between motorways and dual carriageways is also, generally if you break down on a DC you can get out of the lane onto a verge or something, motorways generally have a metal barrier so you’re stuck. Also as has been said people generally go into auto pilot on a motorway, yes I know they should be paying constant attention but the fact is they don’t so when they’re faced with a stationary car it’s too late.
If they want these dangerous motorways then put the radar technology on ALL of it not just a couple of stretches of the M25. I don’t want my life in the hands of some stranger staring at screens who may well be looking at Facebook on their phone rather than doing their job.
They’re dangerous in their current form, end of story.
Most people on a dual carriageway drive with more attention as they expect to come across a pedestrian, a cyclist, moped or learner driver, they will also come across a tractor or JCB crossing their path. Motorways have turned into a train journey and the drivers sit behind each other or at the side of each other on autopilot.
For what its worth I prefer Facebook and Twitter now as the admin rule book is not so thick. ZB