If it was ok way back when, and it’s ok now, why was it so unsafe in between? Surely staged licenses were not just a money making scheme?!
That said, taking the reverse and couple exercise out is nuts. May bear no relation to the real world, as said earlier, but I bet it kept a lot of people off the road that shouldn’t have been on it!
Looks like the next “Pandemic” will be RTAs involving HGVs.
Send the 70’s to work in an about-to-be-closed-down refinery - so they and their kids can become maggie’s millions a decade later
Send 20’s kids into a transport industry that doesn’t need fresh meat for the grinder, as the public are required to supply the “meat” for this particular grinder.
Say what? ^^
granddaddylow:
If it was ok way back when, and it’s ok now, why was it so unsafe in between? Surely staged licenses were not just a money making scheme?!That said, taking the reverse and couple exercise out is nuts. May bear no relation to the real world, as said earlier, but I bet it kept a lot of people off the road that shouldn’t have been on it!
There were always “staged licences”; as you well know, but for the benefit of newbies, the difference then was that you could legally skip Class 3 (4 wheelers) and Class 2 (multi-axle rigids) and go straight to Class1 (anything). If anything the new system is far simpler and it was brought in to align us with the EU; one test for things that bend in the middle and one for those that don’t. The only stupid anomaly occurs when an “old” class 2 driver can take a C+E test on the same drawbar outfit which he can already legally drive without L-plates, but said test now qualifies him to drive an artic without ever having trained on one. Minor detail though.
I’m totally with you on the reverse and couple. Doing that wrong probably causes as many accidents (and possibly more fatalities) as any other single type of incident. I don’t know of any driver who hasn’t at least just stopped himself in time from dropping a trailer with the legs down, pulling the pin without taking the suzies off or one of the other less dangerous steps in the exercise. It needs teaching and testing properly.
This proves how incompetence the UK Government is. Most people fail their tests on the reversing. These idiots are going to put a new breed of driver’s on the road without having the appropriate skills. They are only doing this to divert the blame that they have contributer to the driver shortage by introduction IR35. It is the IR35 which causes the shortage not brexit.
Also by removing the experience of driving class 2 first will contribute to alot of accidents as their mentality will be as of a car driver.
I would love to see how they will pass an assessment with any firm when they are asked to couple and uncouple and most import reverse on to a bay. I almost guarantee everyone will fail their driving assessment.
You really expect a new pass to do store deliveries and be confident reversing. Haha
Daani:
This proves how incompetence the UK Government is. Most people fail their tests on the reversing. These idiots are going to put a new breed of driver’s on the road without having the appropriate skills. They are only doing this to divert the blame that they have contributer to the driver shortage by introduction IR35. It is the IR35 which causes the shortage not brexit.Also by removing the experience of driving class 2 first will contribute to alot of accidents as their mentality will be as of a car driver.
I would love to see how they will pass an assessment with any firm when they are asked to couple and uncouple and most import reverse on to a bay. I almost guarantee everyone will fail their driving assessment.
You really expect a new pass to do store deliveries and be confident reversing. Haha
Absolute tosh yet again. What bearing does the reverse exercise have on real life reversing absolutely none. Everyone learns how to reverse properly on the job.
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simcor:
Daani:
This proves how incompetence the UK Government is. Most people fail their tests on the reversing. These idiots are going to put a new breed of driver’s on the road without having the appropriate skills. They are only doing this to divert the blame that they have contributer to the driver shortage by introduction IR35. It is the IR35 which causes the shortage not brexit.Also by removing the experience of driving class 2 first will contribute to alot of accidents as their mentality will be as of a car driver.
I would love to see how they will pass an assessment with any firm when they are asked to couple and uncouple and most import reverse on to a bay. I almost guarantee everyone will fail their driving assessment.
You really expect a new pass to do store deliveries and be confident reversing. Haha
Absolute tosh yet again. What bearing does the reverse exercise have on real life reversing absolutely none. Everyone learns how to reverse properly on the job.
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Sweet. I want to be a nuclear technician. I’ve no qualification or experience but its ok, I’ll wing it and pick it up as I go along…
Joking aside… I agree about the reverse. The exercise bears no relation to real life but it does also include a lot of all round observations which are going to be less “drilled” into people.
I’m more concerned about the uncouple/couple being glossed over. I think thats more critical than the reverse.
As i said further up, testing the old hat statutory reverse isn’t worth the examiner’s or the new driver’s time and neither is the (un)couple, these things are far better taught without being under the stress to having to perform to driving test standard.
So long as the danger points are covered, we develop our own routines for dropping trailers and these are best discussed openly with an instructor who doesn’t have to worry about an examiner not being happy about the sequence of events yet an otheriwse safe secure pick up, as with all such things good common sense is vital, there will always be those drivers after many years who give a monkeys and those who couldn’t care less and despite having performed dozens still have no idea what’s actually happening during a couple up, or more accurately what can really go wrong.
Maneuvering, again, i’ve yet to see two drivers perform a serious maneuver in exactly the same way, and this is how it should be.
Far better for an instructor gives pointers but otherwise allows a driver to feel comfortable and confident having started to develop their own methods whilst no pressure to please an examiner during the test.
Those incapable of these two things once they go for jobs won’t get past an assessor worth his wage anyway, said assessor if they have any sense doesn’t necessarily want a by the book repetitive method because apart from supermarket type ops where you might have a fleet of indentical tractors and trailers, the variety of kit out there calls for different methods to be adopted.
My view, so long as there’s adequate time alloted to instruction, ie similar time required as would have been had the trainee gone rigid then artic tests, this new straight to artic/bender could be a good thing.
toonsy:
simcor:
Daani:
This proves how incompetence the UK Government is. Most people fail their tests on the reversing. These idiots are going to put a new breed of driver’s on the road without having the appropriate skills. They are only doing this to divert the blame that they have contributer to the driver shortage by introduction IR35. It is the IR35 which causes the shortage not brexit.Also by removing the experience of driving class 2 first will contribute to alot of accidents as their mentality will be as of a car driver.
I would love to see how they will pass an assessment with any firm when they are asked to couple and uncouple and most import reverse on to a bay. I almost guarantee everyone will fail their driving assessment.
You really expect a new pass to do store deliveries and be confident reversing. Haha
Absolute tosh yet again. What bearing does the reverse exercise have on real life reversing absolutely none. Everyone learns how to reverse properly on the job.
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Sweet. I want to be a nuclear technician. I’ve no qualification or experience but its ok, I’ll wing it and pick it up as I go along…
Joking aside… I agree about the reverse. The exercise bears no relation to real life but it does also include a lot of all round observations which are going to be less “drilled” into people.
I’m more concerned about the uncouple/couple being glossed over. I think thats more critical than the reverse.
Both the reverse and couple/uncoupling will be assessed by the training providers, and I imagine they will be routinely checked by examinors to make sure they are making sure people reach a required standard. It’s not that they aren’t going to be shown or they won’t be tested, it will just be done by someone different
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edd1974:
Second, tests will also be made shorter by removing the ‘reversing exercise’ element – and for vehicles with trailers, the ‘uncoupling and recoupling’ exercise – and having it tested separately by a third partyI have no idea what this means any ideas?
My guess is a spereate licence entitlement to say you’ve passed on uncoupling test.
Untill then you can just drive an attached trailer and unit.
If needs to be dropped/swooped etc you can’t do it?This throws up more questions than answers plus 3rd party involvement im.guessing means another test more cost to be show how to unhook and reverse?
Really!!! I do hope your post was tongue in cheek [emoji26][emoji26]
The hitching up and reversing elements will be done by an independent team prior to the candidate gaining the licence obviously if the driving test has been passed also.
[emoji2369][emoji2369]
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I think dropping reversing and coupling for artics from the test is a bad thing the difference between reversing a rigid and artic safely is huge, i was watching one of those driver blog videos the other day where they guy who has been driving an artic a few weeks said he still hates reversing the artic into bays, i bet he is not alone.
“Second, tests will also be made shorter by removing the ‘reversing exercise’ element – and for vehicles with trailers, the ‘uncoupling and recoupling’ exercise”
If I’m on shunt when the new batch hits our yard I’m taking a deckchair in so I can relax while I watch the carnage.
skell790:
“Second, tests will also be made shorter by removing the ‘reversing exercise’ element – and for vehicles with trailers, the ‘uncoupling and recoupling’ exercise”If I’m on shunt when the new batch hits our yard I’m taking a deckchair in so I can relax while I watch the carnage.
I’d take binoculars as well if I were you; wouldn’t want to be getting too close!
Why didn’t they keep the reverse and make the driving portion shorter?
How long does the reverse and uncouple take to perform on a test? 15 mins? Cut that time from the driving section instead surely is more sensible.
“I’d take binoculars as well if I were you; wouldn’t want to be getting too close!”
We’ve had the odd one or two dribbling through lately as normal tests get underway. I stick to the traditional method of letting them sweat for a few minutes, then wandering over and helping them out. We’ve all been there… Sometimes they’ll manage it all on their own, but have to be reminded about the little things. Like opening the doors.
109LWB:
Why didn’t they keep the reverse and make the driving portion shorter?How long does the reverse and uncouple take to perform on a test? 15 mins? Cut that time from the driving section instead surely is more sensible.
Bit longer, surely? It takes me at least 25-35 minutes to hook up and do a thorough check on an unfamiliar vehicle. Though that includes fluids, manual tacho entries, a proper walk round to make sure everything is firmly attached and lights up when it should, plus having a look in the back of a box etc. Longer if there’s anything iffy. Add learner very slow reversing to that is going to be at least another 3-4 minutes.
Though I’m not sure what they they have to do. Just coupling should - as you say - be a well under 15 minute job.
JeffA:
Certainly one benefit of my CPC was that I finally learned how to put diesel into the diesel tank. Before my CPC I had been trying to put it in through the air nozzle on the front tyre! I used to make such a mess!
As a motorcyclist having to deal with diesel spills. The introduction of training around diesel tanks is welcome.
stu675:
JeffA:
Certainly one benefit of my CPC was that I finally learned how to put diesel into the diesel tank. Before my CPC I had been trying to put it in through the air nozzle on the front tyre! I used to make such a mess!As a motorcyclist having to deal with diesel spills. The introduction of training around diesel tanks is welcome.
Only the chimps needed ‘‘training’’ in how to fuel up, lorry drivers worthy of the title already know how dangerous fuel spills are because they can feel what’s happening under the wheels.
The mere fact this is being discussed proves how low the bar has been set for our industry, an industry busily and deservingly reaping what it has sown.