mike68:
The Axor is a perfectly capable unit, you have clearly never driven a “B” series E.R.F.
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Hmmm have to agree, I’ve got a 180bhp 17t ERF, certainly slow up the hills round here…
Paul
Actually my first proper unit was an E reg ERF with an eaton twin, I know well what it feels like to drive a slower older school motor 
newmercman:
The 430 engine in the Axor produces 2100nm of torque, the 420 in the Scania produces 2000nm of torqueThe Axor achieves peak torque at 1100rpm, which means that to drive it to get the maximum out of it you should not even think about changing down until you reach 1100rpm, if you change down before that you ar getting a lot less torque (which is what pulls you up a hill) and just making a lot of noise
The eight speed gearbox is perfectly matched to the engine too, the correct way to downchange ANY lorry on a big hill is to drop whole gears, the splitter should only be used for upshifts (where possible) this will keep the engine on the torque all the time
So drive the lorry properly (on the rev counter) and you’ll find it’s a lot easier to drive, faster uphill and you won’t change gear half as many times
^^^what NMM says^^^, HP for HP the Axor engine(straight 6) will muller the Actros (V6), borrowed an Axor for a couple of weeks and was well impressed with the engine and how it digs in, although it was even nicer to return it to the dealer and get into my new Megaspace 
Something wrong with that axor,I drove loads of early 400s they went like stink. And a 420 scania has 2100nm or torque nmm. Both capable trucks but not comfortable to drive
I think it is more likely they have down rated the engines in that case as they all suffer the same problems regardless of age and miles, give me a wave when you steam by me at 50 when you next see me struggling up a hill at 20 something mph 
Just a little update, turns out the trucks are de-rated (surprise surprise), no idea how much by…can’t say it has saved them much fuel in my experience judging by the amount I put into them at the end of the shift, seems pretty much a muchness for similar trips in other trucks with normal power to be honest, probably because your always ■■■■■■ the engine trying to keep moving.
I’m definetely no mechanic but does downrating an engine really make it any better on fuel overall? I’ve driven a downrated Volvo here in Canada and it would kill itself trying to get up any hill and setting off from traffic lights etc. I’d have thought fuel economy would have been worse given how it had to work so hard just to get going and stay going.
Well that’s the killer eh, IMHO this case it hasn’t worked because of the weight of the loads we pull and a lot of decker work, but then that begs the question why not buy lower power trucks in the first place ■■
I’ve got a 345 at Euro3 which pulls better than a Euro5 at 360. Is it this Euro ■■■■■■■■ strangling the engine or is a Caterpiller better than the Daf equivalent?
we pull our dd with x argos daf cf 75 with 360 engines you think your under power
pigpen:
we pull our dd with x argos daf cf 75 with 360 engines you think your under power
Good old homebase!
NathanB:
I’ve got a 345 at Euro3 which pulls better than a Euro5 at 360. Is it this Euro ■■■■■■■■ strangling the engine or is a Caterpiller better than the Daf equivalent?
It’s all about torque and gearing.
Many modern trucks are overgeared to start off with, then the TM decides to set the speed limiter a bit lower for greater fuel economy, and the truck can’t reach peak torque in top gear. So, it’s always struggling.
Why cant manufacturers just do what ■■■■■■■ did on their M11 engine that was in the ERF EC11. The electronics would turn the engine power down when you were running light and turn itself back up again when loaded or going up hill 
That would be too smart, geezus even the V8 fitted to the Chysler 300c cuts two cylinders under light load to save fuel.
Most of are trucks are merc and they all are sheds from 54 (reg) to 59 (reg)
Axor 430 and Acros 440/460 on fridge work and they pull like ■■■■.
Are Man 430 leave them for dead up to speed and uphill
(The merc’s are better built then the man’s)
Gates:
Most of are trucks are merc and they all are sheds from 54 (reg) to 59 (reg)Axor 430 and Acros 440/460 on fridge work and they pull like [zb].
Are Man 430 leave them for dead up to speed and uphill
(The merc’s are better built then the man’s)
I think MANs are better suited for trampers rather than days/nights with many change of hands over the years. I first had a go in the new TGS which the company started knocking down to 51mph & messed about with the ecu etc so you couldn’t even switch to manual & do the gears yourself to get the best torque etc, it was awful to drive, struggled up the smallest of hills with the lightest of loads & changed gears a lot more often, as a result I don’t think it really saved them any fuel. Subsequently (in a better firm) I was let loose several times with a tramper’s TGX with the same engine (440) but limited to 56mph (& i could control everything) carrying drinks at near full weight there was a remarkable difference in performance & fuel consumption…
Phantom Mark:
Well that’s the killer eh, IMHO this case it hasn’t worked because of the weight of the loads we pull and a lot of decker work, but then that begs the question why not buy lower power trucks in the first place ■■
Who do you think buys these things in the first place, I’ve always wondered if it’s the old ladies in the canteen who order new units as they order the tea bags & milk for the week…■■?
Nah, I reckon you would have half a chance of making those ladies listen to drivers about what they needed, far too much wisdom in those old girls. Probably a spotty youth just left college sat at a PC with a spreadsheet of numbers, a calculator and some garbage sales literature.
Phantom Mark:
Nah, I reckon you would have half a chance of making those ladies listen to drivers about what they needed, far too much wisdom in those old girls. Probably a spotty youth just left college sat at a PC with a spreadsheet of numbers, a calculator and some garbage sales literature.
Or even worse than that, an ex-driver come office wallah trying to make an name for himself in management. They always know best because they’ve been there, done that and got the T-shirt, apparently.
damoq:
Why cant manufacturers just do what ■■■■■■■ did on their M11 engine that was in the ERF EC11. The electronics would turn the engine power down when you were running light and turn itself back up again when loaded or going up hill
That engine was years ahead of its time…shocking how ■■■■■■■ was squeezed out of the big truck market here by the (sometimes inferior) offerings from in-house truck engine manufacturers
There’s something similar in the Iveco EcoStralis now, but I don’t know if any other manufacturer does it.
If the operator thinks the truck is too powerful and has to be downrated it begs the question as to why he didn’t buy a cheaper, less powerful truck with a smaller engine in the first place.