andy187:
Muckaway:
I’m amazed at the amount of people who want to work through their breaks.( I can understand owner drivers)
I won’t as much as polish the dash if the tacho’s switched to break. (Usually for an hour)
But if your ar not unloading the trailer your self your are not working?
sometimes you may need a 45 so that you can get to next delivery on time,or get home before your shift runs out.
I’m lucky enough not to have either of those problems: No trailer, and my hardest day recently was yesterday, 2x loads (1 loaded overnight) of stone from Burford to Salisbury. Back to Burford to load up for morning, parked up by 4.15 and indoors by 4.40.
can you get your head down whilst waiting in a drivers rest room,only if you want to be uncomfatable
Surely common sense has a roll to play here the same as it does everywhere else in this job. We can all dream up reasons why a break shouldn’t be taken & I wouldn’t expect a driver on hours to give up the chance of a break after tipping or loading but as an owner driver, my hours are valuable to my income.
I’ve always taken my breaks as & when I can. If I’m sitting around waiting for work I put the tacho on break, if i’'m sat long periods waiting to tip or load & the lorry isn’t moving I put it on break. If I get a break in all well & good, if I fail to log a break I simply have when my hours dictate a break.
BB
Basilbrush:
Surely common sense has a roll to play here the same as it does everywhere else in this job. We can all dream up reasons why a break shouldn’t be taken & I wouldn’t expect a driver on hours to give up the chance of a break after tipping or loading but as an owner driver, my hours are valuable to my income.
I’ve always taken my breaks as & when I can. If I’m sitting around waiting for work I put the tacho on break, if i’'m sat long periods waiting to tip or load & the lorry isn’t moving I put it on break. If I get a break in all well & good, if I fail to log a break I simply have when my hours dictate a break.
BB
Surprisingly enough, that is what some employed drivers want to do. If I have sat over 3 hours in the cab with a tank of chocolate tipping it. I am going to use that time as rest. when I eventually get out of the factory I will probably stop at the first garage, buy a couple of pasties or butties and drive to the cleaning station. I can eat them while I am in the queue I don’t need a break. I have just had three hours uninterrupted rest whilst unloading.
Cynic-al:
tachograph:
That plan doesn’t really work very well because it’s an offence to take the card out during the working day without proper authorisation.
How come? Your not driving without and what if someone else drives your truck or you drive another? Afterall you’ve given in your keys so your no longer in control of the vehicle? From your name you obviously know more than me but it seems logical to me, afterall its your job to protect the card and the data on it, not your employers or vosa.
Sorry I meant to look up the regulation covering this but forgot until the thread was resurrected 
I’ve just repeated what the regulations say mate, I didn’t write them 
There’s a possible FP of £120 for unauthorised withdrawal of the chart so I assume it’s the same for the card though I can’t find withdrawal of the driver card on the list of fixed penalties, £120 FP is possible but a more likely outcome would be a verbal warning as long as there’s no suspicion that the card/chart was removed to hide a more serious offence.
Still an offence though so presumably it would only be tolerated a limited number of times
Article 15 (2) - (EC)3821/85:
Drivers shall use the record sheets or driver cards every
day on which they are driving, starting from the moment they take over
the vehicle. The record sheet or driver card shall not be
withdrawn before the end of the daily working period unless its withdrawal
is otherwise authorized. No record sheet or driver
card may be used to cover a period longer than that for which it
is intended.
Cynic-al:
From your name you obviously know more than me
Not necessarily, I just happened to be sorting some tachograph charts when I registered and the user name came from what I had in my hand 
tachograph:
Cynic-al:
From your name you obviously know more than me
Not necessarily, I just happened to be sorting some tachograph charts when I registered and the user name came from what I had in my hand
It is a good job that James May didn’t join using the same criteria 
tachograph:
There’s a possible FP of £120 for unauthorised withdrawal of the chart so I assume it’s the same for the card though I can’t find withdrawal of the driver card on the list of fixed penalties . . . . . . .
Could the offence possibly have been removed by amendment ? I can’t be arsed to go look - I’m happy enough to accept there’s no offence.
And/Or, the assumption might be incorrect. Are “charts” (analogue) defined anywhere ? I’m sure they are. If “card” is also defined, then the can’t be the same thing, so what applies to “chart” can not apply to “card” unless the legislation specifically says so.
The concept of the assumption made here is similar to accepting that "Vosa have said . . "
dambuster:
tachograph:
There’s a possible FP of £120 for unauthorised withdrawal of the chart so I assume it’s the same for the card though I can’t find withdrawal of the driver card on the list of fixed penalties . . . . . . .
Could the offence possibly have been removed by amendment ? I can’t be arsed to go look - I’m happy enough to accept there’s no offence.
I couldn’t find the offence in the fixed penalties list but (EC) 3821/85 has been amended to include the “driver card” as shown in the quote in my previous post.
You can accept that there’s no offence if you wish but (EC) 3821/85 says “The record sheet or driver card shall not be withdrawn before the end of the daily working period unless its withdrawal is otherwise authorized”, I can only see one way of reading that.
dambuster:
The concept of the assumption made here is similar to accepting that "Vosa have said . . "
The only assumption I’ve made is that the fixed penalty for unauthorised withdrawal of the driver card is the same as for the chart, there’s certainly no assumption on my part about the regulations only the penalty for no complying with them
But before I do - go reading . . . . .
The record sheet or driver card shall not be withdrawn before the end of the daily working period unless its withdrawal is otherwise authorized . .
Is there any hint or specific list of how/when/where such authorisation can/should be gained ? (The answer may shorten my reading list )
dambuster:
But before I do - go reading . . . . .
The record sheet or driver card shall not be withdrawn before the end of the daily working period unless its withdrawal is otherwise authorized . .
Is there any hint or specific list of how/when/where such authorisation can/should be gained ? (The answer may shorten my reading list )
When requested to do so by an enforcement officer.
When changing vehicles during a shift.
When engaged in multi manning.
When someone else will move the vehicle during your break.
That’s about it.
dambuster:
The record sheet or driver card shall not be withdrawn before the end of the daily working period unless its withdrawal is otherwise authorized . .
Is there any hint or specific list of how/when/where such authorisation can/should be gained ? (The answer may shorten my reading list )
I don’t think you will find a list anywhere but I doubt that a warehouse bod having your keys and sending you to a rest room would qualify as a good reason not to comply with the regulations
Apart from that what Neil said
tachograph:
Cynic-al:
take your card out before leaving the truck, when you get back in you can do a manual entry - 1 minute other work taking the keys, 20 min rest, 10 min getting keys, paper work, checking load etc. That way you can fill in retrospectively so if you get asked to move the truck or help load you can record it as other work.
That plan doesn’t really work very well because it’s an offence to take the card out during the working day without proper authorisation.
is that true though? ive had to use mine as id for collecting at liverpool docks and never been an issue
dustylfc:
tachograph:
Cynic-al:
take your card out before leaving the truck, when you get back in you can do a manual entry - 1 minute other work taking the keys, 20 min rest, 10 min getting keys, paper work, checking load etc. That way you can fill in retrospectively so if you get asked to move the truck or help load you can record it as other work.
That plan doesn’t really work very well because it’s an offence to take the card out during the working day without proper authorisation.
is that true though? ive had to use mine as id for collecting at liverpool docks and never been an issue
You’ve had to use your driver card as ID, I would have thought it would be easier to carry your license but maybe that’s just me 
You say it’s never been an issue but an issue with who, it may not be an issue with your boss but that doesn’t mean it would not be an issue for VOSA.
I’m not saying that VOSA would have a problem with what you do, I’ve no idea to be honest, I’ve just stated what the regulations say is all
dustylfc:
tachograph:
Cynic-al:
take your card out before leaving the truck, when you get back in you can do a manual entry - 1 minute other work taking the keys, 20 min rest, 10 min getting keys, paper work, checking load etc. That way you can fill in retrospectively so if you get asked to move the truck or help load you can record it as other work.
That plan doesn’t really work very well because it’s an offence to take the card out during the working day without proper authorisation.
is that true though? ive had to use mine as id for collecting at liverpool docks and never been an issue
Some random bod in the docks has no authority to ask you to remove your driver card and show it to him.
Coffeeholic:
dustylfc:
tachograph:
Cynic-al:
take your card out before leaving the truck, when you get back in you can do a manual entry - 1 minute other work taking the keys, 20 min rest, 10 min getting keys, paper work, checking load etc. That way you can fill in retrospectively so if you get asked to move the truck or help load you can record it as other work.
That plan doesn’t really work very well because it’s an offence to take the card out during the working day without proper authorisation.
is that true though? ive had to use mine as id for collecting at liverpool docks and never been an issue
Some random bod in the docks has no authority to ask you to remove your driver card and show it to him.
you and tacho missunderstand my post i had used my card as id because thats the only id i had on me at the time no id no trailer my license was elsewere
dustylfc:
Coffeeholic:
dustylfc:
tachograph:
Cynic-al:
take your card out before leaving the truck, when you get back in you can do a manual entry - 1 minute other work taking the keys, 20 min rest, 10 min getting keys, paper work, checking load etc. That way you can fill in retrospectively so if you get asked to move the truck or help load you can record it as other work.
That plan doesn’t really work very well because it’s an offence to take the card out during the working day without proper authorisation.
is that true though? ive had to use mine as id for collecting at liverpool docks and never been an issue
Some random bod in the docks has no authority to ask you to remove your driver card and show it to him.
you and tacho missunderstand my post i had used my card as id because thats the only id i had on me at the time no id no trailer my license was elsewere
Ah, got you. l I don’t think that wouldn’t be an authorised removal but it could depend on the enforcement officer if checked.
opps posted twice told you too much wine
so when i press the wrong button to shift modes, and pess eject by mistake thats not allowed? so why isnt there a second press to confirm that you want to eject your card ? sorry too much wine tonight 
malcolmj:
so when i press the wrong button to shift modes, and pess eject by mistake thats not allowed? so why isnt there a second press to confirm that you want to eject your card ? sorry too much wine tonight
You may have had too much wine but that’s still a very good point you’ve made, I agree you should have to confirm that you want to eject the card.
Apart from anything else it would save the hassle of having to re-insert the card when it’s been ejected by mistake as I’m sure many of us have done.