Take home bragging!

[winseer]

If you think about it - if there WAS actually a “going rate” for drivers everywhere - everyone below par for wages would be a malcontent.

Fact is, they are not. We keep getting told on here that it’s OK to earn near minimum wages IF you ‘like the job enough/Need the job enough/Find the job convienient enough’.

£7ph across the road from where you live can be better than £10ph in the next town or £18ph going to work in another country.

This latter point is relative. It gives some insight into what motivates our Eastern European cousins into upping sticks, and coming over here.
Would we go over to places like Poland - IF we could get a £18ph for it?
I doubt it. Those that DID go - would be the ones who’ve no longer got “anything here”.

[winseer]

damo100480:
I earn £9.25 an hour. On average I book 52. I work about 20. But with nights out and the fact of I don’t do a lot, I’m happy taking home on average £580 a week. I start Sunday afternoon, and finish Thursday before dinner time. I drive approx 1000km a week if I’m lucky.

Your relative pay per hour then - is over £29ph.

That assumes of course that by “I work about 20” means you are at work 20 hours despite being paid for 52.
If you at work leaning on a broom for the other 32 hours - then I call that still “being at work for 52”.

For hourly rate purposes - your hourly rate is what you get paid for having your time wasted for that amount per week. Hours start when you set off for work really, and end when you walk back in your front door.
Divide the takehome pay by THAT number of hours per week/month and hey presto - you have your REAL hourly rate.

Many are below minimum wage on this basis btw…

[evil8beezle]

Winseer:

damo100480:
I earn £9.25 an hour. On average I book 52. I work about 20. But with nights out and the fact of I don’t do a lot, I’m happy taking home on average £580 a week. I start Sunday afternoon, and finish Thursday before dinner time. I drive approx 1000km a week if I’m lucky.

Your relative pay per hour then - is over £29ph.

That assumes of course that by “I work about 20” means you are at work 20 hours despite being paid for 52.
If you at work leaning on a broom for the other 32 hours - then I call that still “being at work for 52”.

For hourly rate purposes - your hourly rate is what you get paid for having your time wasted for that amount per week. Hours start when you set off for work really, and end when you walk back in your front door.
Divide the takehome pay by THAT number of hours per week/month and hey presto - you have your REAL hourly rate.

Many are below minimum wage on this basis btw…

Agree completely about work starting the second you walk out the door, as I currently travel 45 mins each way to work.
So a 10 to 12 hour day can equal a 13.5 hour day…

But your comment about the hourly rate is just antagonistic.
The OP was clearly stating their work effort for the money was low…

P.S. I commute because I’m a Newbie, and this gig suits my current needs to a tee!

[truckulent]

The-Snowman:

Conor:

The-Snowman:
+2
Rather than worry about what everyone else earns, you need to ask yourself “is my take home enough for me?”. If the answer is yes then your wages are fine. In my opinion it is fine to do a job for £10 an hour compared to a job for £18 when you factor in lots of other things such as distance to work,type of work, length of shifts etc.

I’d like to thank you for your contribution to keeping hourly rates crap and forcing drivers to do 60hrs a week to earn the national average wage. I’m quite sure your bosses love you too… “Just give Snowman plenty of hours and he’ll think he is taking home a decent wage even though we’re taking him for a mug.”

If drivers universally said they’d not set foot inside a truck for less than £10/hr then £10/hr becomes the rate or the truck sits there. Whilst you get muppets who are quite happy to work for barely more than the minimum living wage “because its just 10 minutes down the road” then everyone else will continue to suffer.

If im happy with what I earn its got [zb] all to do with you or anyone else. Ididnt say I was happy I was earning a decent wage. I said I earned enough. Theres a difference
I was turned away by dozens of companies because I had no experience. They gave me the chance. What was I supposed to do? Say no thanks as it’ll upset Conor? I earned enough for the hours and the work involved and I was happy with the job due to high amount of flexibility from the owners and the way they treated their drivers with things like time off, early finish requests etc. THAT is the most important thing to me. And had I continued driving I would more than likely have left to get a better paid job. But whether I did or didnt is STILL [zb] all to do with you. Im not forcing anyone to do 60 hours a week. If someone doesnt like their wage they can go find a better one. Im not forcing anyone to stay in a poorly paid job
What guys like you who’ve been in the game for decades seem to forget is how hard it is to get a start with no experience. You shoot your mouth off about “if every driver refused to work for less than £10 an hour” but forget its not that easy for a guy with a new license to take the stand on behalf of everyone else.
And another thing you forget is that if every driver does take a stand and the wage rises to a basic £10-£15 per hour then you can forget flexibility and free thinking from companies. You’ll do it their regimented way with no flexibility or leeway from them. After all, they are paying you a small fortune

Most of the above is only if you let them… You chose to.

I found just after I’d got my licence, that by making it clear I had a pro attitude and that I had enough respect for myself and the licence, I had little trouble securing work at a decent rate. Sure, it wasn;t the top money stuff. But it was a hell of a lot better than the 7 quid odd you’re quoting.

In short, if you feel you’re only worth 7 quid an hour, there’s very few companies that will argue with you.

[happysack]

LIBERTY_GUY:
In the bigger scheme of things, there are folks out there that spend far more on quality wine or fine food in a year, than what a typical truck driver earns… The time to boast is when you don’t have to drive a truck to make a living…

I spend quite a lot on wine. But if I ever get out of wagon driving, I’ll spend a he’ll of a lot more

[eddie_snax]

Winseer:

damo100480:
I earn £9.25 an hour. On average I book 52. I work about 20. But with nights out and the fact of I don’t do a lot, I’m happy taking home on average £580 a week. I start Sunday afternoon, and finish Thursday before dinner time. I drive approx 1000km a week if I’m lucky.

Your relative pay per hour then - is over £29ph.

That assumes of course that by “I work about 20” means you are at work 20 hours despite being paid for 52.
If you at work leaning on a broom for the other 32 hours - then I call that still “being at work for 52”.

For hourly rate purposes - your hourly rate is what you get paid for having your time wasted for that amount per week. Hours start when you set off for work really, and end when you walk back in your front door.
Divide the takehome pay by THAT number of hours per week/month and hey presto - you have your REAL hourly rate.

Many are below minimum wage on this basis btw…

That’s why many CEO’s negotiate “compensation” as opposed to a wage/salary, for themselves they regard their earnings in that manner, as compensation for the time they are losing to the company. Its a shame we the working masses don’t see it the same way.

newmercman:
I don’t give a monkey’s what they call the way they make up my wages, bonuses, night’s out, meal allowance or whatever, as long as I’m happy with the figure that goes in my bank, that’s all that matters, nobody in the pub, petrol station, supermarket or anywhere else I spend my money gives a toss whether it’s hourly pay, night out money or meal allowance, so why should I?

I had this very same argument when a couple off years ago meal allowance was introduced at our place, whether you think it right or wrong, wouldn’t you rather have money in your bank no brainer to me

I also think that this business of calling night subsistence, expenses is BS aswel. If you are a Tramper, then with forward planning and the right equipment, you should be able to minimise the cost of working away, to no more than if you were on shift work, therefore eating at home every night, but without the time and expense of commuting.

[newmercman]

Spot on there Eddie. When I was last on away all week work in tbe UK, I was able to use subsidised canteens for the majority of the week and when I wasn’t I would get fish n chips or a curry, with a few pints in here and there, much the same as I would if I was home every night. So it didn’t cost any more than it would’ve had I been at home, like you said, I also wasn’t putting fuel in my car or wearing it put on a daily commute, so I was probably in front when you take everything into account.

Admittedly things have changed and subsidised canteens are thin on the ground now, but with bigger cabs and microwaves etc. It isn’t difficult to live out on the road and it needn’t be expensive, you could even get the wife to knock up an extra dinner every night through the week and freeze it so you can take it with you the next week and have real home cooked food out on the road.

So night out money doesn’t need to cover expenses, it’s payment to compensate you for being away from home, you don’t have to give it to Burger King or KFC.

[happysack]

Hallelujah. Two people talking sense. I don’t care how my wages are made up, as long as the figure in the bank hits the mark. On a night out, it’s very rare I’ll spend anything at all. I don’t park in services and I take home cooked food. Only time I really spend anything after the initial outlay of a weeks shopping is if I have a Friday night out, because I only take 4 meals away (I do have stuff I could survive on if I’m stuck in the middle of nowhere on a Friday) or the odd cup of coffee or extra milk.

All in my usual 4 nights out costs less than one night out payment. I also get meal allowance, so 5 meal allowances and 3 night out payments are money for ■■■■ all for me.

[quinny]

gazsa401:
I can never understand why some drivers use night out money as part of their wages
It’s not its expenses not wages

+1

Absolutely spot on, but some companies are equally as guilty. “Take home £600.” But they fail to tell you that this figure will include expenses and I am amazed at how gullible some people are to fall for it.

Ken.

[winseer]

eddie snax:

Winseer:

damo100480:
I earn £9.25 an hour. On average I book 52. I work about 20. But with nights out and the fact of I don’t do a lot, I’m happy taking home on average £580 a week. I start Sunday afternoon, and finish Thursday before dinner time. I drive approx 1000km a week if I’m lucky.

Your relative pay per hour then - is over £29ph.

That assumes of course that by “I work about 20” means you are at work 20 hours despite being paid for 52.
If you at work leaning on a broom for the other 32 hours - then I call that still “being at work for 52”.

For hourly rate purposes - your hourly rate is what you get paid for having your time wasted for that amount per week. Hours start when you set off for work really, and end when you walk back in your front door.
Divide the takehome pay by THAT number of hours per week/month and hey presto - you have your REAL hourly rate.

Many are below minimum wage on this basis btw…

That’s why many CEO’s negotiate “compensation” as opposed to a wage/salary, for themselves they regard their earnings in that manner, as compensation for the time they are losing to the company. Its a shame we the working masses don’t see it the same way.

newmercman:
I don’t give a monkey’s what they call the way they make up my wages, bonuses, night’s out, meal allowance or whatever, as long as I’m happy with the figure that goes in my bank, that’s all that matters, nobody in the pub, petrol station, supermarket or anywhere else I spend my money gives a toss whether it’s hourly pay, night out money or meal allowance, so why should I?

I had this very same argument when a couple off years ago meal allowance was introduced at our place, whether you think it right or wrong, wouldn’t you rather have money in your bank no brainer to me

I also think that this business of calling night subsistence, expenses is BS aswel. If you are a Tramper, then with forward planning and the right equipment, you should be able to minimise the cost of working away, to no more than if you were on shift work, therefore eating at home every night, but without the time and expense of commuting.

It’s probably easier to negotiate “compensation” instead of a fixed salary - IF you are already on a self-employed mindset, consider yourself a skilled worker rather than a steering wheel attendant, and, most importantly - The firm would be in deep trouble if you didn’t show for work one day. Fail to turn up at a “too big to care” outfit, and another random bod will just be shoehorned into your job. At a small yard though - “not turning up” could be disasterous for the firm, and thus that firm is going to be a whole lot keener on handing out full time contracts - just to not only get that bum on that seat - but to keep it there.

What do I want when looking for a job? - UNDER a 48 hour week (I don’t like this pressure to “max out” all the time) and OVER £30,000 in pay for that “shorter” week. Obviously, the shorter the hours or the higher the pay over £30k the better. I would also find a way of factoring in “quality breaks” and the like. A Quality break is one that lasts over an hour, doesn’t get deducted for more than 45 mins max, and you can have your feet under a canteen table within a couple of minutes of putting your digi on break! (If you’re in the middle of nowhere, then a vacant layby becomes more desirable than an ‘open canteen’ btw)

The silly thing is… If one looks at a yard like ND Didcot for example - By enforcing “their” interpretation of H&S so that “drivers cannot remain in their cabs, even with red airlines off” - That can easily amount to 2-4 hours PER VISIT of “being in the cooler wasting your life” instead of living it up in the canteen/rest area or “Being allowed to stay in your cab” to eat a packed lunch, kip, or “read a newspaper” - the official definition of “dispose of your time as you see fit”. In my mind “being in the cooler” doesn’t do that, and you end up leaving the yard tired, bored, and dreadfully ■■■■■■ off. How many times do you see drivers having to “take a 45 outside the gate” because of this H&S jobsworth attitude? Now I’ve been there and done that on agency these past 4 years - I can’t say I am interested in applying for any job that involves submitting to this regime.

[freight_dog]

Winseer:

eddie snax:

Winseer:

damo100480:
I earn £9.25 an hour. On average I book 52. I work about 20. But with nights out and the fact of I don’t do a lot, I’m happy taking home on average £580 a week. I start Sunday afternoon, and finish Thursday before dinner time. I drive approx 1000km a week if I’m lucky.

Your relative pay per hour then - is over £29ph.

That assumes of course that by “I work about 20” means you are at work 20 hours despite being paid for 52.
If you at work leaning on a broom for the other 32 hours - then I call that still “being at work for 52”.

For hourly rate purposes - your hourly rate is what you get paid for having your time wasted for that amount per week. Hours start when you set off for work really, and end when you walk back in your front door.
Divide the takehome pay by THAT number of hours per week/month and hey presto - you have your REAL hourly rate.

Many are below minimum wage on this basis btw…

That’s why many CEO’s negotiate “compensation” as opposed to a wage/salary, for themselves they regard their earnings in that manner, as compensation for the time they are losing to the company. Its a shame we the working masses don’t see it the same way.

newmercman:
I don’t give a monkey’s what they call the way they make up my wages, bonuses, night’s out, meal allowance or whatever, as long as I’m happy with the figure that goes in my bank, that’s all that matters, nobody in the pub, petrol station, supermarket or anywhere else I spend my money gives a toss whether it’s hourly pay, night out money or meal allowance, so why should I?

I had this very same argument when a couple off years ago meal allowance was introduced at our place, whether you think it right or wrong, wouldn’t you rather have money in your bank no brainer to me

I also think that this business of calling night subsistence, expenses is BS aswel. If you are a Tramper, then with forward planning and the right equipment, you should be able to minimise the cost of working away, to no more than if you were on shift work, therefore eating at home every night, but without the time and expense of commuting.

It’s probably easier to negotiate “compensation” instead of a fixed salary - IF you are already on a self-employed mindset, consider yourself a skilled worker rather than a steering wheel attendant, and, most importantly - The firm would be in deep trouble if you didn’t show for work one day. Fail to turn up at a “too big to care” outfit, and another random bod will just be shoehorned into your job. At a small yard though - “not turning up” could be disasterous for the firm, and thus that firm is going to be a whole lot keener on handing out full time contracts - just to not only get that bum on that seat - but to keep it there.

What do I want when looking for a job? - UNDER a 48 hour week (I don’t like this pressure to “max out” all the time) and OVER £30,000 in pay for that “shorter” week. Obviously, the shorter the hours or the higher the pay over £30k the better. I would also find a way of factoring in “quality breaks” and the like. A Quality break is one that lasts over an hour, doesn’t get deducted for more than 45 mins max, and you can have your feet under a canteen table within a couple of minutes of putting your digi on break! (If you’re in the middle of nowhere, then a vacant layby becomes more desirable than an ‘open canteen’ btw)

The silly thing is… If one looks at a yard like ND Didcot for example - By enforcing “their” interpretation of H&S so that “drivers cannot remain in their cabs, even with red airlines off” - That can easily amount to 2-4 hours PER VISIT of “being in the cooler wasting your life” instead of living it up in the canteen/rest area or “Being allowed to stay in your cab” to eat a packed lunch, kip, or “read a newspaper” - the official definition of “dispose of your time as you see fit”. In my mind “being in the cooler” doesn’t do that, and you end up leaving the yard tired, bored, and dreadfully ■■■■■■ off. How many times do you see drivers having to “take a 45 outside the gate” because of this H&S jobsworth attitude? Now I’ve been there and done that on agency these past 4 years - I can’t say I am interested in applying for any job that involves submitting to this regime.

It’s a while since I looked at the tacho regs but I understand the being able to freely dispose of time bit only applied to rest, not breaks? Guess its choice if you feel like you’re getting a break or not. Some rdcs I went to like Asda I took it on break due like you say being able to kip in the lorry and the place was more quiet and relaxing than an MSA. At the tray wash I stuck it on other work as sitting behind a barrier in a noisy warehouse listening to others yacking was not much of a break.

Places where I had to wait in a room I used break if I wanted, one place was quiet, no annoying tv and decent coffee machine and could read a book, whereas Sainsburys, no way. I tried to take a sensible approach to it.

[gazsa401]

Quinny:

gazsa401:
I can never understand why some drivers use night out money as part of their wages
It’s not its expenses not wages

+1

Absolutely spot on, but some companies are equally as guilty. “Take home £600.” But they fail to tell you that this figure will include expenses and I am amazed at how gullible some people are to fall for it.

Ken.

Totally agree if somebody is on a low income and they have to claim working tax credits you don’t add it together and divide it to make your hourly pay/take home pay look better
Again night out subsistence is an expense for you for being away from base
Unless you work for a company that gives you a cash float at the beginning of the week which is for overnight parking meals etc you still have use your own money to pay for parking if you choose to stop at a truck stop or MSA
Or your unfortunate enough to work for a company that doesn’t pay parking then I understand about not spending night out money and keeping it in your pocket but you’ve still got to pay for food whether it’s a part of your weekly shop or not or do some drivers on here deduct rent/mortgage payments gas,water and electricity bills council tax, tv licence and so on in their hourly rate too to bolster their take home pay
Night out subsistence is inland revenue based that’s why the first night out payment is tax free

[freight_dog]

Whilst with subsistence and allowances I love the money in my pocket I always think a true reflection of it is can you use it when asked to prove your salary/true wage when going for a mortgage, or will you get it when on holiday, or is it pensionable? In my job the allowances are blown doing the job so they really are needed. I know nights out money in driving can often be saved.

Where I am we have loads of extras, duty pay, subsistence, night hours etc but it’s not pensionable and not classed as being my salary. I’d struggle to get a mortgage if I was on my own for anything other than a small house in the midlands upwards based on my basic multiplied by 3, and definitely nothing other than a flat “darn sarf”

Subsistence is nice, but I don’t like the idea of companies using loads of allowances as a dodge.

[robroy]

The ones that brag loudest and most about being on ‘‘good money’’ are usually the hard of thinking.
I’ve heard this bull ■■■■ for bloody years off drivers.

Ok x no of quid take home in real terms may be ‘good money’ but it fails to be so when they work out the excess hours per day and week they have worked to achieve it, on their crap basic and time and a pound after 55 hours or something equally as derisory , …and with their 5 nights out SUBSISTANCE payment not wage.

So then they try and justify it (mainly to themselves) by the;…
Excess hours = nature of the job, old chestnut,

when in reality it is ;

crap wage structure for hours worked = nature of the job.

I personally don’t give a toss what anybody else makes, or how they brag about it, …I just take the ■■■■ out of their naivity.

Nobody will stick together to change things, so I just keep my head down and look after no1…me.

[gazsa401]

^^^ totally agree

[dipper_dave]

happysack:
All in my usual 4 nights out costs less than one night out payment. I also get meal allowance, so 5 meal allowances and 3 night out payments are money for [zb] all for me.

+1
Weekly shop around £30 including pack of 10 beers, I do like a beverage after work.
Rest of weeks night out money is in the bank for vodka and hookers the weekend, then I waste the rest on mortgage etc.

Never focused to much on hourly rates, its the take home that matters most.
Some may be shocked some may agree but they dont put strippers on me lap or food on me table.

As far as the job goes I knew what I was getting into and enjoy it, more money is always welcome but generations before me havent stuck together so why should I. As long as theres folk who only focus on hourly rates instead of the big picture ill always have a job providing I remember how valuable my licence is and try and look after me health and dont drive like a ■■■■.
Hourly rate is vanity, take home is sanity.

[colin_scottish]

Dipper_Dave:

happysack:
All in my usual 4 nights out costs less than one night out payment. I also get meal allowance, so 5 meal allowances and 3 night out payments are money for [zb] all for me.

+1
Weekly shop around £30 including pack of 10 beers, I do like a beverage after work.
Rest of weeks night out money is in the bank for vodka and hookers the weekend, then I waste the rest on mortgage etc.

Never focused to much on hourly rates, its the take home that matters most.
Some may be shocked some may agree but they dont put strippers on me lap or food on me table.

As far as the job goes I knew what I was getting into and enjoy it, more money is always welcome but generations before me havent stuck together so why should I. As long as theres folk who only focus on hourly rates instead of the big picture ill always have a job providing I remember how valuable my licence is and try and look after me health and dont drive like a ■■■■.
Hourly rate is vanity, take home is sanity.

That is spot on.But many on here will tell you to get a job stacking shelfs for £8.40ph but forget to say its only 30 hours a week.I get £9.33ph so a must be a mug working for that according to some on here.

[robroy]

Dipper_Dave:

happysack:
All in my usual 4 nights out costs less than one night out payment. I also get meal allowance, so 5 meal allowances and 3 night out payments are money for [zb] all for me.

+1
Weekly shop around £30 including pack of 10 beers, I do like a beverage after work.
Rest of weeks night out money is in the bank for vodka and hookers the weekend, then I waste the rest on mortgage etc.

Never focused to much on hourly rates, its the take home that matters most.
Some may be shocked some may agree but they dont put strippers on me lap or food on me table.

As far as the job goes I knew what I was getting into and enjoy it, more money is always welcome but generations before me havent stuck together so why should I. As long as theres folk who only focus on hourly rates instead of the big picture ill always have a job providing I remember how valuable my licence is and try and look after me health and dont drive like a ■■■■.
Hourly rate is vanity, take home is sanity.

I would reckon the last bit is vice versa Dave.
By what you say, and I know it aint gonna happen, but if you were short of 24 quid life or death needed, and somebody offered you a quid an hour for 24 hours work, by your own criteria you would do it?
Bloody ridiculous analogy I know, but you get my drift.
No offence mate but that sort of attitude is likely to go a long way towards driver’s detrement, and the way things are now

[eagerbeaver]

Lets be honest, if you don’t want to drive an artic for £9 per hour, there will be a stampede of EE’s ready to take the job. The sad reality is that the government are quite happy for an influx of cheap labour.

As regards personal choice, its also dependant on where you live. I was talking to a driver a couple of weeks ago, he drives for a south Wales firm. £8 an hour. He knew the money was crap, but he said work was scarce where he lives, and its either do it, or struggle to feed his kids and keep a roof over his head.

Who has the right to complain that he is helping keep wages low?

[dipper_dave]

I see what you mean Rob and it is a good point, perhaps we just have different philosophies.
For me its all about the bottom line and a realistic amount of effort in a certain space of time to justify how much im paid vs how long I work +other perks.

Take my wife (please dont shes gorgeous), when we first met I was competing with another chap who had a larger todger. Now in this analogy it should be a no brainer to go for biggus dickus instead of little dippus but in reality I had other things going for me like good tongue work, no fear of ■■■■ and a persistence to not finish the job untill she found religion on multiple occasions. So in the end I won because even though my rate of length and girth was lower but coupled with me putting the hours in and other perks the bottom line was better for the wife.

So on face value a higher rate of pay may look attractive one has to consider the full package and beyond.
Theres other factors like pensions and shares schemes, health insurances schemes etc.

One thing that does hammer home a crap hourly rate is basic holiday pay. I got mine and I was like WTF. Sure the wife thinks the same at some of my more standard ■■■■■■ performances.