WheelsofCardiff:
The paperwork they give you to sign will have a breakdown of the infringement on it. The office picks up on insufficient breaks and rests. If you look on the diagram that will be there it will show where you went wrong in red. Its not a crime just sign the form and get it over. DVSA wont kill you for it. If in doubt do a daily printout for your records but make sure you then carry them for 28 days.
This was sent via agency with a photocopy of the weeks work from an analyst company with all the timings on it, with a note on the bottom relating to the infringement, there is no diagram on it show a brake down of the day which I have already mentioned in a previous post.
They are Basically asking me to explain what I did wrong to get the infringement and what I will do in the future to make sure I don’t do it again, where as the rule states that they should be telling me what I did wrong and what I am going to do to make sure it does happen again, But they can’t because there is no breakdown of the day in question, which means I can’t sign it off.
Yes it may be a minor infringement and VOSA are usually ok with genuine mistakes, but if I’ve got to it right so do the company.
Looks to me like you’re summing it up well.
Ignoring the note is clearly no way to go.
Write a polite note on the bottom saying the infraction has not been explained to you, sign and return?
Ball in their court, but you are cooperating.
Wonder if they will actually read the note? Or just file it?
I’m not ignoring it, ive emailed them back and asked them to supply the breakdown of the day in question so I can actually see what happened on the shift in question, i have already asked them which day it was which didn’t take long to reply, although it conflicts with the info I’ve recieved, so they are probably now waiting for their client to supply the print out.
WheelsofCardiff:
The paperwork they give you to sign will have a breakdown of the infringement on it. The office picks up on insufficient breaks and rests. If you look on the diagram that will be there it will show where you went wrong in red. Its not a crime just sign the form and get it over. DVSA wont kill you for it. If in doubt do a daily printout for your records but make sure you then carry them for 28 days.
This was sent via agency with a photocopy of the weeks work from an analyst company with all the timings on it, with a note on the bottom relating to the infringement, there is no diagram on it show a brake down of the day which I have already mentioned in a previous post.
They are Basically asking me to explain what I did wrong to get the infringement and what I will do in the future to make sure I don’t do it again, where as the rule states that they should be telling me what I did wrong and what I am going to do to make sure it does happen again, But they can’t because there is no breakdown of the day in question, which means I can’t sign it off.
Yes it may be a minor infringement and VOSA are usually ok with genuine mistakes, but if I’ve got to it right so do the company.
Looks to me like you’re summing it up well.
Ignoring the note is clearly no way to go.
Write a polite note on the bottom saying the infraction has not been explained to you, sign and return?
Ball in their court, but you are cooperating.
Wonder if they will actually read the note? Or just file it?
I’m not ignoring it, ive emailed them back and asked them to supply the breakdown of the day in question so I can actually see what happened on the shift in question, i have already asked them which day it was which didn’t take long to reply, although it conflicts with the info I’ve recieved, so they are probably now waiting for their client to supply the print out.
Prior to moving to Australia, I did agency truck driving … I always done print out and kept them 4 28 days, or why don’t you put your card in the slot and print out previous days? … sometimes the complaint wanted me to give the tachograph and take a photocopy, (refused told them to keep a copy, and I would hand them in after I think it was 42 days. … I am sorry, but I honestly don’t see how you can make a mess up on something so basic… not rocket science being a truck driver, how hard is it to keep track of time seriously. … some of you drivers really make your job harder than it is… not got any ego, but I never got an infringement ever purely because I made sure I did all by the book.
Oh wouldn’t it be great to be perfect, and never make any mistakes through life but non of us are and mistakes do happen, some mistakes result in very dire consequences, and some are trivial, like this.
weeto:
No, at least 15 mins before I started run, then at least 30 mins before setting off back 3 hour drive each way, I do know on one shift I did have more than 45 mins before setting off, and realised I had the then took 45 before setting off again but can’t remember when that was, main points regarding this issue was/is, do all tachos give a pre warning, as all the trucks I’ve driven in the past have done, and they need to show a proper print out of the shift so they can explain to me what I have done wrong, all they have shown is the total drive and total breaks for the shift, which tells me nothing.
Well as long as you recorded some drive time before the 15 min break I can’t see where you could have got an infringement?
weeto:
No, at least 15 mins before I started run, then at least 30 mins before setting off back 3 hour drive each way, I do know on one shift I did have more than 45 mins before setting off, and realised I had the then took 45 before setting off again but can’t remember when that was, main points regarding this issue was/is, do all tachos give a pre warning, as all the trucks I’ve driven in the past have done, and they need to show a proper print out of the shift so they can explain to me what I have done wrong, all they have shown is the total drive and total breaks for the shift, which tells me nothing.
Well as long as you recorded some drive time before the 15 min break I can’t see where you could have got an infringement?
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I can’t either, unless I’ve seen a print out of the day in question, I can’t really sign a form stating I have caused an infringement, that would be like pleading guilty without evidence, which they are asking me to do, and have no way of doing a print out myself as I won’t be driving a truck anytime soon.
trevHCS:
Your driving time isn’t measured against the time of day / night, its purely wheels turning minutes, so it makes no difference if you go passed midnight. It still knows when 4.5 hours are approaching.
trevHCS:
Your driving time isn’t measured against the time of day / night, its purely wheels turning minutes, so it makes no difference if you go passed midnight. It still knows when 4.5 hours are approaching.
This
Thanks, Well I am pretty sure that there was no break warnings which happen at 4hr 15mins that I remember that week.
There was the following week, but not from the unit, it was on the dash display which I ignored as that run was less than 4 and a half hours, and plenty of breaks.
weeto:
There was the following week, but not from the unit, it was on the dash display which I ignored as that run was less than 4 and a half hours, and plenty of breaks.
I find that ^^^^ intriguing as IME the dash display tallies up with the tacho display. Have you been practicing your manual entry skill by any chance Weeto?
As an aside you probably know this but you can stick your card into any digi vehicle and do a printout for the day in question. At the very least if you post it here somebody may be able to shed some light.
…If you start duty, take a 1hr16 minute break after inserting your card, and then do six hours straight without a further break - then you’d get a WTD infringement even if you did 6hr16m other work rather than driving which will cause an infringement after 4hr 30m…
It is difficult to avoid getting a wtd infringement when you got stuck on the M1 for half an hour, as the duty running times would have your arrival at NDC and then going straight onto break after putting your vehicle on the bay… “Run Late” though? You might turn up with some time left, such as 4hr10m driving time, but already be over 6 hrs into your duty, flagging up the WTD infringement later - i.e. not flagged on the device itself (which is what I think OP is getting at here)
If you forgot to take the 45m break whilst there, you’d then be five minutes down the road before flashing up the 4hr15m driving on the digidevice on top.
I would recommend not putting the tacho onto “Break” until you’ve just removed the keys from the ignition.
There have been incidents of the mode changing back to “other work” when you take the keys out otherwise…
It shouldn’t do that, but I had a MAN tractor back in 2015 that used to get set to break, turn off engine, and remove the keys - and bugger me - it’s changed back to “other work”… Come back an hour later, and you have to book the 45 all over again!
You won’t be warned by the digi device that you’re about to get a WTD infringement - ever.
Mores the pity, as I used to get these all the time, which was deemed 100% my fault getting them, of course…
weeto:
There was the following week, but not from the unit, it was on the dash display which I ignored as that run was less than 4 and a half hours, and plenty of breaks.
I find that ^^^^ intriguing as IME the dash display tallies up with the tacho display. Have you been practicing your manual entry skill by any chance Weeto?
As an aside you probably know this but you can stick your card into any digi vehicle and do a printout for the day in question. At the very least if you post it here somebody may be able to shed some light.
I may get one for that as well next week, but I am not sure they do on that truck as the timings on the dash and what the tacho was saying was completely different, it was recording more driving than the tacho.
As for doing a print out i’m not likely to be able to do that for at least a couple of weeks, and I don’t think they will want to wait that long, I have asked them again to sent the analysis print out for that day, but still haven’t received it. thanks.
Winseer:
…If you start duty, take a 1hr16 minute break after inserting your card, and then do six hours straight without a further break - then you’d get a WTD infringement even if you did 6hr16m other work rather than driving which will cause an infringement after 4hr 30m…
It is difficult to avoid getting a wtd infringement when you got stuck on the M1 for half an hour, as the duty running times would have your arrival at NDC and then going straight onto break after putting your vehicle on the bay… “Run Late” though? You might turn up with some time left, such as 4hr10m driving time, but already be over 6 hrs into your duty, flagging up the WTD infringement later - i.e. not flagged on the device itself (which is what I think OP is getting at here)
If you forgot to take the 45m break whilst there, you’d then be five minutes down the road before flashing up the 4hr15m driving on the digidevice on top.
I would recommend not putting the tacho onto “Break” until you’ve just removed the keys from the ignition.
There have been incidents of the mode changing back to “other work” when you take the keys out otherwise…
It shouldn’t do that, but I had a MAN tractor back in 2015 that used to get set to break, turn off engine, and remove the keys - and bugger me - it’s changed back to “other work”… Come back an hour later, and you have to book the 45 all over again!
You won’t be warned by the digi device that you’re about to get a WTD infringement - ever.
Mores the pity, as I used to get these all the time, which was deemed 100% my fault getting them, of course…
Yeah, iv’e of that problem with the tachos going back to other work with the ignition, but never come across it myself, it’s just the way the tacho has been set up (wrongly).
this is defintly an alleged driving for more than 4 hrs 30 mins without a 45 minute break and not a WTD infringement.
Possibly not recording a minute driving before the first break
Driving away on 14 / 29 minutes
Operator error / machine malfunction
It could be all three, but we will never know until they send the tacho analysis print out for the day, all I have is a print out with the total times for the shift for other work, driving and break.
If there is an infringement, it would of been a genuine mistake and don’t have a problem signing for it, but not signing it until I’ve seen a print out for it.
So an update, finally got a print out from the tacho analysis, and it shows that on this day that even though I had moved the vehicle from under 1 trailer to the one I would be using for my run, out 5 of these movements on the days I worked, the movement had not been recorded on the tachograph.
After hooking up the trailer and doing the walk around checks on it, I put it on break 31 mins recorded, as I intended to split break the 45 mins and have the other 30 mins at the destination, clearing the 45 for the run back, I have just been unfortunate that day, as the only thing that happened was the movement must of been under 29 seconds so was not recorded on the tacho card, so that’s sort of cleared up then 1, technical error on the part of the tacho not recording the movement and 2, human error for not checking that the movement had been recorded.
On a side note, even though it was not recorded on the tacho card because of the 1 minute rule, this movement according to VOSA/DVSA the movement would have been recorded on the tachograph head and they are able to check this apparently, but think that’s aimed at drivers moving the vehicle whilst on break or rest according to this part of an article I read.
One minute rule during driver’s rest period
However, using this rule during a mandatory break is a completely different story. During a break, a driver is supposed to rest and generally cannot drive even for 1 second. Even if a printout from a tachograph sheet does not show driving during a break, availability will be recorded by tachograph in the second slot along with the speed reached while driving up, which means that driving will be reported anyway.