The game is rigged, and not in your or mines favour.
That truly IS criminal and ridiculous! Holding onto payment like that should be outlawed.
O/d’s are paid as per employed staff here ie 4 weekly, how it should be.
Easier said than done sometimes but places playing the game like that need avoiding…
And whats worse they didnt even tell their suppliers this was the new normal. The cheques simply stopped coming. When I rung up accounts, I was told like it or lump it.
Then soon after, the CFO got a big fat bonus for “generating” cash flow. He didnt do squat, just put the company deeper in the hole by BORROWING MORE MONEY.
The only way I could see was it was going to hurt me even more when the whole thing goes ■■■■ up so I made my excuses and left.
The collective insanity of corperate business only ends up hurting the little guy.
The game is rigged, and not in your or mines favour.
That truly IS criminal and ridiculous! Holding onto payment like that should be outlawed.
O/d’s are paid as per employed staff here ie 4 weekly, how it should be.
Easier said than done sometimes but places playing the game like that need avoiding…
On the radio today was a small businessman stating that some of these companies who have imposed 4 months payment terms then deduct a discount… for paying on time
ALL invoices should be by law on the terms strictly 30 days statutory interest 8% applies.
AndieHyde:
The collective insanity of corperate business only ends up hurting the little guy.
Youre not wrong there Andie. Many years ago i did some work for a French plastics company in
Montpellier (plastic granules). The accounts were being paid 6 weeks, two months going onto 3 months+, in the meantime i blew the engine up in my F12, rented another and had to find circa 6K eur for repairs (didnt last long btw). Plastics company meanwhile went bust. At the time i seriously thought about jacking it all in…
albion:
I’m reading a Varoufakis book at the moment (not the one to his daughter), and its easier going than your posts Rjan.
Whatever you say, I pay because I want ny staff to be happy.
There’s a new postion been created at Albion transport, and I interviewed a lady to help out the TM. Experience, no faff about her. No real need for any training. I asked her about salary expectations. I think she’s worth more than she thinks she is, so her pay has been raised by £1500 a year. Not a fortune, but it reflects the type of company I’ve strived for.
As I stated at the start, my customers have a choice, pay my rates or go get inferior service somewhere else. Of course you are right in that big business may make me untenable in the future, but you are wrong when you say all small haulage businesses out compete each other. I don’t, for better or worse.
No one should ever be afraid to say foxtrot Oscar to a customer, even if it results (in my case), of working on Tescos checkout.
Maybe just accept I’m weird.
I dont think your weird at all.
In the kingdom of the blind, the one eyed man is king and I find my own little outfit in a similar positition with a giant of a company attempting to force down rates for my supply into it by trying to boil down every operation so a monkey can do it. However there are some situations that require a lot of specalised skill and their intention is to keep us around for these instances only and farming out the bulk to low cost/quality suppliers. My take on this is because I get the lions share of bargin work it subsidises the difficult jobs, to which I now have to raise the rates on. Couple this with the now criminal payment terms(145 days) they have imposed due to a leveraged take over on their part, they cannot understand why we will no longer supply them, choosing instead premium work from smaller companies who pay on time.
Other fish in the sea and all that but the large outfits are only hurting themselves in the long term, and as has been wrote before (and certainly my experience also) current large company management sees “long term” as being up to their next bonus cheque for what is essentially systamatic ■■■■ of otherwise profitable businesses where EVERYBODY benifited from being involved with its running, not just a few at the top and a bunch of faceless share holders.
Run your big company (banks included) into the ground and causing hardship for thousands, then disappear into the sunset with big fat pockets leaving the dear old taxpayer to bail it out
The game is rigged, and not in your or mines favour.
The other side of the coin is that any investor in a transport company will expect it to be run in the most efficient manner possible . If payments terms are deemed to be unacceptable any supplier can decide not to work for the company concerned . In addition there is also the opportunity to obtain immediate payment into the bank by using the services of a debt factoring company and as such any problems in obtaining payment become the responsibility of the factoring company .
Large companies such as Eddy Stobart Logistics , Clipper Logistics or Wincanton must be doing most things correctly otherwise they would not have grown to the size that they currently are . These companies are providing what the customer wants , namely a cost effective transport service and they are able to use their size to make purchases on highly competitive terms
When I was running my 5 x 3.5 tonners I was told by one big company I did work for that if I used a debt factoring company I would no longer do any work for them, dont know why as they always paid 30 days end of month and on time ■■?
UKtramp:
I completely agree that Unions are not needed anymore, they do nothing for most and very little for a lot with ok for very few. Your subs are simply going down the drain paying into it, management on most sites don’t recognise them or speak with them, Unite was not allowed to hold meetings with members on an ABP site I was on, where they had to hold meetings off site. Weak and useless with no real support. Lots of workers have lost their jobs regardless of a union membership or not. When Thatcher defeated the miners, that was the end of them.
How does the Labour Party imposing wage restraint and the TUC supporting them like turkeys voting for Christmas and Thatcher effectively removing the right to organise and the right to strike again then enforced by a so called ‘Labour’ government.In addition to all sides indoctrinating younger working class generations with a false re writing of history regarding what happened in the 1970’s let alone others like rob who were there believing it too.All translate as ‘no need for unions’.As opposed to what’s needed in the form of a real Labour Party ( not Corbyn ) led by someone like Shore or Benn or Heffer ( Hoey ? ).Who’ll hopefully tell it like it was.In that the early 1970’s were a golden age for the working class despite being under a Conservative administration,then catastrophically let down by a so called Labour one in the mid-late 1970’s and again under Blair.
N.I Express:
Large companies such as Eddy Stobart Logistics , Clipper Logistics or Wincanton must be doing most things correctly otherwise they would not have grown to the size that they currently are . These companies are providing what the customer wants , namely a cost effective transport service and they are able to use their size to make purchases on highly competitive terms
That’s absurd reasoning. Carillion is a large company, but it has not become that way by doing things correctly. Most of the large trucking companies have grown in recent times simply by taking over existing work (predominantly from a multitude of existing, in-house operations) whilst forcing down the going rate of wages and pensions.
raymundo:
When I was running my 5 x 3.5 tonners I was told by one big company I did work for that if I used a debt factoring company I would no longer do any work for them, dont know why as they always paid 30 days end of month and on time ■■?
I’m guessing at one time it was because factoring companies had a reputation for being lenders to those who couldn’t secure credit from the more traditional sources.
When I opened up the second depot, it meant purchasing a lot (for us as a small company) of assets at once and our accountant suggested factoring. It worked well for us and we didn’t finance purchases, using the factoring facility instead. It’s only recently the FM decided to cancel it. In the last year it cost us circa 13k on 1.8-9 million turnover.
AndieHyde:
The collective insanity of corperate business only ends up hurting the little guy.
Youre not wrong there Andie. Many years ago i did some work for a French plastics company in
Montpellier (plastic granules). The accounts were being paid 6 weeks, two months going onto 3 months+, in the meantime i blew the engine up in my F12, rented another and had to find circa 6K eur for repairs (didnt last long btw). Plastics company meanwhile went bust. At the time i seriously thought about jacking it all in…
And hereby lies the problem.
The whole money-go-round is propped up by debt. When somebody at the top turns off the flow of money, the entire house of cards falls over and the little guy at the bottom ends up holding the smelly end of the stick.
So lets apply this thinking to the plight of our brothers at Suttons. On the one hand we have a well run company, paying its drivers well in return for providing a premium and essential service to its customer base. Obviously for a premium price, but you get what you pay for and most costs are fixed (diesel, road tax, insurance. I’m sure you know)
Big business knows this and for the most part, accepts Suttons charge as the cost of doing business and is to all tense an purpose, added into the cost of supply to their customers. Everybody is happy.
Now enter into the mix an organisation who see Suttons on to a good thing and think they can compete. The only real cost saving in this situation is drivers wages AND/OR borrowing a shed load of money you have no intention of ever paying back but the damage is done at this point. Suttons compatition is making cost cutting foot in the door tactics to make the end user think they are being ripped off and invite Suttons to match the prices on offer.
With all of the afformentioned costs being fixed, the only saving is payroll. This is the situation right here, right now.
Suttons decide not to compete, the other organisation wins the work only to find some months down the line that they had their sums wrong and go ■■■■ up hurting everyone.
Suttons decide to compete, putting downward pressure upon its employees until everyone leaves and seats are filled with the lowest common denominator which leads to a toxic chemical spill into a kitten sanctuary run by nuns and go out of business anyway.
Love her or hate her, Thatcher had it right with the statement “the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money” and the modern day legacy of that is government cannot help themselves but to bail out (with tax payers money of course) businesses that should otherwise fail. They claim that the market will correct itself, but continue to influence it with free money for “good” ideas.
Either way, Suttons are ■■■■■■■
All in the the name of COGS (current managment buzzword, Cost Of Goods Sold ) efficency.
raymundo:
When I was running my 5 x 3.5 tonners I was told by one big company I did work for that if I used a debt factoring company I would no longer do any work for them, dont know why as they always paid 30 days end of month and on time ■■?
I’m guessing at one time it was because factoring companies had a reputation for being lenders to those who couldn’t secure credit from the more traditional sources.
When I opened up the second depot, it meant purchasing a lot (for us as a small company) of assets at once and our accountant suggested factoring. It worked well for us and we didn’t finance purchases, using the factoring facility instead. It’s only recently the FM decided to cancel it. In the last year it cost us circa 13k on 1.8-9 million turnover.
Very interesting, I have always been shy of invoice factoring as I have seen it end very badly in the past, admitedly by people who were drinking in the last chance saloon.
The last time I looked into it I saw rates of around 9% for factoring but your 13grand seems fairly reasonable for releasing capital at a time of critical expansion.
On the flip side, years ago, my fathers haulage company was introduced, because of an unpaid invoice, to a man from the smoke who specalised in toxic transport debt. He was prepared to pay my dad 80p on the £ to “buy” said debt. The mere mention of this mans involvement saw a cheque in a car across the M62 within the hour.
raymundo:
When I was running my 5 x 3.5 tonners I was told by one big company I did work for that if I used a debt factoring company I would no longer do any work for them, dont know why as they always paid 30 days end of month and on time ■■?
I’m guessing at one time it was because factoring companies had a reputation for being lenders to those who couldn’t secure credit from the more traditional sources.
When I opened up the second depot, it meant purchasing a lot (for us as a small company) of assets at once and our accountant suggested factoring. It worked well for us and we didn’t finance purchases, using the factoring facility instead. It’s only recently the FM decided to cancel it. In the last year it cost us circa 13k on 1.8-9 million turnover.
Very interesting, I have always been shy of invoice factoring as I have seen it end very badly in the past, admitedly by people who were drinking in the last chance saloon.
The last time I looked into it I saw rates of around 9% for factoring but your 13grand seems fairly reasonable for releasing capital at a time of critical expansion.
On the flip side, years ago, my fathers haulage company was introduced, because of an unpaid invoice, to a man from the smoke who specalised in toxic transport debt. He was prepared to pay my dad 80p on the £ to “buy” said debt. The mere mention of this mans involvement saw a cheque in a car across the M62 within the hour.
The first couple of years it cost more though nowhere near 9% Andie. I benefitted by a year later by taking on an ex bank manager who understood far better than I did the terms and reduced things a lot. And then basically after a few years (apart from a bad 2008-09), we ran in credit virtually all the time.
It works, but you do have to be aware of why you are doing it, ie expansion or because you can’t actually make the job pay and need/want to delay the inevitable.
As I said, I haven’t had finance on a vehicle for 6 years because of that cheap facility.
albion:
The first couple of years it cost more though nowhere near 9% Andie. I benefitted by a year later by taking on an ex bank manager who understood far better than I did the terms and reduced things a lot. And then basically after a few years (apart from a bad 2008-09), we ran in credit virtually all the time.
It works, but you do have to be aware of why you are doing it, ie expansion or because you can’t actually make the job pay and need/want to delay the inevitable.
As I said, I haven’t had finance on a vehicle for 6 years because of that cheap facility.
You really have your head screwed on.
A few times I have been tempted by finance options, only for reasons to aquire profitable assets. To buy a new car or go on holiday or the like, anyone would have to have rocks in their head.
Instead I choose to self finance in my business persuits and the piece of mind that comes from that. Granted, my rise above the trenches is hardly interstellar but everything in my yard is mine and to me, that is priceless.
Sadly it seems to be a British state of mind to chastise those who are doing well for themselves, but from an escapee of fortress England now down under, good on yer, mate!!!
People trying to be interstellar is what leads to the situations that Suttons and Carillion are in. If you can pay your bills, look your staff in the eye, not lie to your customers and run 99.9% legal, then it puts you ahead of the pack.
People trying to be interstellar is what leads to the situations that Suttons and Carillion are in. If you can pay your bills, look your staff in the eye, not lie to your customers and run 99.9% legal, then it puts you ahead of the pack.
I was wondering who would first put Suttons and Carillion into the same thread. Expanding companies acquiring others? Needing work so tendering low and working on lesser margins maybe? Needing to reduce wages. Strong management or desperation?
All way above my pay grade to provide answers of course.
The name of the game is aquisitions! I won’t pretend to understand the ins and outs of these big company machinations although it looks like we have a resident beancounter (yah! boo! hiss!) who might have an opinion. Ultimately, when there’s nothing left to buy, you find yourself in a cul de sac and the road behind is jammed solid making escape that way,impossible, time to hit the ejector button! A high profile company of auditors will assist in the run up to this and sign everything off legally for you whilst protecting client confidentiality. There’s lots to choose from, as many as four at the last count. There used to be many more but some were aquired by others…get the picture?
Joeblogs38:
Ive been told
That they suttons want to take £7.00 an hour off the drivers at eastham.
Also other posters are correct ive seen suttons asking for adr tanker drivers 10.22 an hour.
Regards unions i dont have alot if faith
Did nowt for me when i needed them.
Paid all those subs for nowt
Can the rants be kept to the topic !
I completely agree that Unions are not needed anymore, they do nothing for most and very little for a lot with ok for very few. Your subs are simply going down the drain paying into it, management on most sites don’t recognise them or speak with them, Unite was not allowed to hold meetings with members on an ABP site I was on, where they had to hold meetings off site. Weak and useless with no real support. Lots of workers have lost their jobs regardless of a union membership or not. When Thatcher defeated the miners, that was the end of them.
I hear you, brothers / sisters etc, unions are a thing of the past they are dead, funded by a few believers that evolution will sort out. Riding along on a single agenda to justify their own excistence by pretending to be for the workers. What a load of bollox, talks of union corruption is enough to put anyone off paying their subs…
Christ just reading the word ‘Solidarity’ made me upchuck.
I prefer worker collectives not outdated organisations that will cream all the credit from any positive outcome whilst negotiating how many brothers/sisters they can chuck under the bus.
