it an s21 model froggie . i never had any trouble driving them and i’m 6feet tall . surprisingly well laid out for the time . by the time the s21 came along the auxiliary gearshift was air operated switch on the right of the dashboard . one problem with the early models was lack of a headliner in the cab resulting in showers of condensation on a cold morning . dave
Hi, Froggy, single lamp on the nearside, usually mounted as low as possible, was indeed a fog lamp. The idea was that there is usually one or two feet of clear air between the fog and the ground. The low slung fog lamp, with a flat topped beam, would illuminate enough of the road surface to enable the driver to make better progress. Sometimes a spot lamp was mounted on the offside adjusted to light up the white line and cat’s eyes giving an even better view. In some instances the fog lamp had an amber lens to minimise glare from the beam hitting the fog when it was really thick.
Thanks, guys! On Berliet lorries, I think headliners weren’t fitted before they inroduced the “Relaxe” cab in 1959 on the front-cab models, and 1963 on the bonneted models. I confess I never thought about the problem of condensation on a bare metal ceiling, but maybe it’s due to the fact that France is a dry and warm country. 
FD 6 powered, I guess?
I’m back with an older Foden, looking brand new when the picture was taken. Perhaps operating in an area where fog is thicker, looking at its two fog lamps.
Froggy55:
A few years ago, at my request, Martin Phippard sent me an envelope with a dozen fine pictures of Sugar Tankers. I thought it was a good opportunity to start a thread about that kind of lorry.0
First is this brand new Bedford, badged Millwall Sugars, which I think was a branch of Tate & Lyle. By the way, was the content of such a tank liquid (syrup), or powder sugar?
Millwall Sugars was indeed part of T&L, I worked out of there for a few months in the early 90s doing a South West run, it was packaged stuff, not bulk and was basically buckets and drums of syrup. The main load came out of North Woolwich and was the usually bagged stuff and I topped up in Millwall.
I also used to do bulk bags of refined sugar from North Woolwich down to Cuneo in Italy, there were about 20 export loads a day going out of there, mostly in short sea containers, I have no idea where to though, but the export warehouse was a busy place.
I’ve seen a couple of T&L 20ft tanktainers in the US too, they were on a train in Arkansas, just west of Memphis where there’s a siding, they looked to be liquid tanks, but I can’t be sure as I was driving past them at 60mph.
Froggy55:
Thanks, guys! On Berliet lorries, I think headliners weren’t fitted before they inroduced the “Relaxe” cab in 1959 on the front-cab models, and 1963 on the bonneted models. I confess I never thought about the problem of condensation on a bare metal ceiling, but maybe it’s due to the fact that France is a dry and warm country.FD 6 powered, I guess?
Re: condensation. I assume you never had a mini van in your courting days? 
And I confess I was one of the bullsh*t boys in my youth. I had a pair of fog lamps, a pair of spot lamps and a pair of long range driving lamps. All on an S-type four wheeler Bedford!
Sugar is one of those global commodities that is subject to all kinds of tariffs, forward trading and buying etc, I can recall T&L refineries at Silvertown, Liverpool, and Greeenock, plus there were beet processors Sankey and British Sugar. There were also several sugar brokers who bought on the open market at the best price they could ex-refinery. When I joined Turners (Soham) Ltd in 1991 there were 11 BSC sites processing beet, now there are just 4. Today there is Silvertown as a cane processor and no more. T&L now makes most of its profits from artificial sweeteners. Much of the UK sugar comes in from Europe from beet processors who can produce cheaper than BSC. Beet processing is a high energy process. Things have changed dramatically in the sugar industry.
Retired Old ■■■■:
Re: condensation. I assume you never had a mini van in your courting days?
And I confess I was one of the bullsh*t boys in my youth. I had a pair of fog lamps, a pair of spot lamps and a pair of long range driving lamps. All on an S-type four wheeler Bedford!
I never liked Scania trucks because their windscreen isn’t high enough. So, with my 6’ 3/8", I would certainly not have found the Mini van comfortable! I must confess I even never attempted to enter a Mini (the true 1959 one, I mean). Was the S-Type’s dynamo strong enough to feed all your lamps? I had a 1956 Triumph T 100 motorbike, and remember the electric supply didn’t exceed 55 Watt.
gingerfold:
Sugar is one of those global commodities that is subject to all kinds of tariffs, forward trading and buying etc, I can recall T&L refineries at Silvertown, Liverpool, and Greeenock, plus there were beet processors Sankey and British Sugar. There were also several sugar brokers who bought on the open market at the best price they could ex-refinery. When I joined Turners (Soham) Ltd in 1991 there were 11 BSC sites processing beet, now there are just 4. Today there is Silvertown as a cane processor and no more. T&L now makes most of its profits from artificial sweeteners. Much of the UK sugar comes in from Europe from beet processors who can produce cheaper than BSC. Beet processing is a high energy process. Things have changed dramatically in the sugar industry.
The only stuff I used to provide sugar refining industry with, was limestone! Used to precipitate impurities during the processing, they told me.
Yes, limestone is used in processing sugar beet.
beet sugar plants were the cream on the top for us up here in derbyshire . when the annual campaign came round we took quicklime to most of the sugar plants , the lorries ran 24/7 on that job , bearing in mind that our mainstay was the steelworks . there were also thousands of tons of limestone for their own lime kilns , but we rarely touched that as various big hauliers in east anglia cut the haulage rates to the bone . they offered less for stone down and beet pulp back to wales than we were paid for a load of lime down and empty return . it’s sad to realise that there are only 4 plants left and only 3 major steelworks , and these under threat . at least i have the comfort of my armchair to ponder the sad demise of industry from . dave
Froggy55:
Retired Old ■■■■:
Re: condensation. I assume you never had a mini van in your courting days?
And I confess I was one of the bullsh*t boys in my youth. I had a pair of fog lamps, a pair of spot lamps and a pair of long range driving lamps. All on an S-type four wheeler Bedford!I never liked Scania trucks because their windscreen isn’t high enough. So, with my 6’ 3/8", I would certainly not have found the Mini van comfortable! I must confess I even never attempted to enter a Mini (the true 1959 one, I mean). Was the S-Type’s dynamo strong enough to feed all your lamps? I had a 1956 Triumph T 100 motorbike, and remember the electric supply didn’t exceed 55 Watt.
Bedford’s dynamo wasn’t the most powerful, but there weren’t too many auxiliary lights turned on at one time. I once bought a ridiculously cheap Eastern bloc moped as transport to & from work. The electricity supply was such that you had the option of lights or horn, but not both at once!
i’d have paid good money to see you giving it big licks on a moped , i can’t get the picture out of my mind . dave
The only sugar factory we ran to from Ballidon in my time was Felstead in Essex Dave, it kept the quarry busy for the winter months. Steve Skinner and myself towed one of ours back from there with gearbox problems, a nice day out for me as a fitter driving down through Cambridge, Dunmow, Saffron Walden etc! A couple of years ago I took my van down that same road to Basildon, now’t much has changed in the 30 years since I last went down there.
Pete.
can’t say we ever did felstead pete , peterborough , bury st edmunds ,ipswich , cantley and wissington were our main jobs , oh and newark . our lorries earned their corn , newport steelworks in a morning and then one of the above in the afternoon ( sometimes we even changed drivers ) although newport and newark were doable with a little creativity . then a night man could do a bury st edmunds to round the day off . dave
I think that Felstead was a good enough day with a half cab Foden and 180 Gardner power! 
I don’t think the rate was that good for OD’s though but some did it when there was nothing else. I suppose that nowadays the trip would be a doddle with everything either by-passed or a Motorway, only the factory isn’t there anymore! 
WH Phillips did a lot of sugar stone, from Middle Peak quarry I think, Stowmarket rings a bell. And then it all vanished!!
Pete.
rigsby:
i’d have paid good money to see you giving it big licks on a moped , i can’t get the picture out of my mind . dave
A site to behold, Dave. 25mph flat out, a “sort of” brake on the front wheel and a stupid old lorry driver dressed in a fluorescent green chemical suit who’s purpose was to keep the Macclesfield rain out!
Wow, only 4 beet factories left. I think I went to most of them when at
BRS in the 70s. Kidder minster and Wellington in the West Midlands. York and Selby in Yorks. Lincoln and Brigg in Lincs. Kings Lynn, Cantley, Wissington, Peterborough, B.St.E. Ipswich, Newark and Felstead. Felstead was a two loads a day job from Silvertown when they ran short of sugar for their bagging operation. Kiddy was a5 loads a week job from B.St.E. For the same reason. Bury and Wissey were the best places to load. The only places where you could tip the tank right up. Other places were built for the shorter 8 wheeler tanks. Arctics with 30 ft tanks had to keep pulling out and tipping the tanks right up to get the sugar to the back and then going back under for some more. That caused a lot of problems at Silvertown when the T & L tanks used to nip in behind the BSC artics when they did a shunt. If there was a queue, you didn’t want to go round to the back again and the T & L driver couldn’t get out when he was loaded. A standoff resulted and there were some almighty rows. BRS started going in team-handed so some one always watched your back.
A mixed bag:
Take note of the Bedfords with dog.
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And some spilled sugar:
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