Spineless drivers

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
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Carryfast:

ckm1981:
I’ll speak my mind no problem,but you’ll get the odd few who will start telling everyone we should be out on strike over every little thing…how many times did we hear that over the CPC…thing is,those that recommended us all out on strike are the “older” drivers amongst us that,financially maybe have paid off their mortgage,got no kids at home and are financially comfortable where as us “young uns” (yes mid thirties is still young,to me anyway)have mortgages to pay,and kids to provide for and this alone will always be put before “let’s bring this country to its knees and get out on strike”,in the mean time us “young uns” use up our savings,those that have them or struggle and that phone call to everyone that requires our coin every month will never go like this…
“I can’t pay my mortgage,I’m striking to bring this country to its knees to make a point”
Will never be followed by a response of-
“Sure thing Mr lorry driver,you show them and whilst you are forget about your morg/gas/electric bills we’ll cover those for you”

This is a argument I’ve had at work with a few of the elder statesman of the trucking world,yes I will speak my mind and argue my point but going on strike is out of the question.
Also very few “big” operations run their own transport/warehousing ie sainsburys/tesco ect ect,and every contract has a renewal date,this is also worth bearing in mind.

Firstly a strike to succeed in a way which has any large scale effect it needs cross industry support in the form of sympathy/secondary action with the intention of lifting terms and conditions and/or protecting jobs across the economy as a whole.Which is what defeated the miners in 1984.

As for the old v young argument if it hadn’t been for people facing up to all the implications of strike action over the years the working class would still be where it was in the 1930’s in real terms.

While it is that change in attitudes which arguably defines the title of the topic.Although to be fair it ‘should be’ spineless working class,at least over recent generations,rather than just picking on one specific trade group.

Possibly the most noteable stikes of recent times was the miners strikes,where did that get everyone?
The working class have maybe become a lot more reluctant to strike because nowadays financially everything is much tighter,maybe I’m wrong,A recent study showed that 70% of “working class people” are 2 pay days away,or lack of actual pay, from suffering severe financial difficulties obviously this is always going to be a major factor when any INDIVIDUAL considers whether he should agree to join the status quo and go on strike,also I have always found that in most cases those shouting the loudest when in comes down to the crunch are the most unlikely to rebel.

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The ‘drivers’ have spoken. That is why there is now a driver shortage in the industry.

They did not want some of the above speaking for them, and voted with their feet. That is not ‘spineless’. What is though, is coming on here bleating about how hard you are, and how you tell it like it is. Go to your boss and tell them that, and then report back here with the response. Spineless? is that living in a deprived part of the country with limited opportunity, and doing a hard, low paid job with long hours and sticking it out, because there is not much of an option? Not to me it isn’t.

Funny, but in over thirty years of driving and twenty five as an o/d I have seen all the ‘blowhards’ come and go. Have had to actually fight one or two of them too. There has never really been a collective in this industry, so why bleat about getting together now, when it is as disparate as it as always been?
When the union had its grip on the transport industry here in Liverpool, and we had the drivers register, you could not get a job even if you were top of the register. They went to the shop stewards families and cronies. The blowhards would love it to be like that again, so they could monopolise the good jobs, and leave the ■■■■■ for the brotherhood of drivers. That is why most of the petrol tankers, car transporters and other ‘good’ jobs locally are staffed by families of the union cronies who ruined Liverpool in the eighties and nineties.

That is why I and quite a few others became owner drivers. I did not then, nor will I now, allow people like that, and some of the above, to speak for me.

23

But is there a driver shortage? Or just fears of one, that has yet to materialize…

Have wages gone up due to this alleged driver shortage? As wages in the form of supply and demand, can be the only true measure of whether there is a driver shortage?

24

Evil8Beezle:
But is there a driver shortage? Or just fears of one, that has yet to materialize…

Have wages gone up due to this alleged driver shortage? As wages in the form of supply and demand, can be the only true measure of whether there is a driver shortage?

I think a lot of the shortage is mitigated by the use of “EU citizens” driving here and the fact that a lot of our internal goods movements are being done by foreign trucks.

The Germans have recently decided that ALL drivers working within Germany must be on Germany minimum wage rate (eu is taking them to court!) In effect the Jerrys have recognised that cheap eastern European labour is a threat to german driver wages and german hauliers and are trying to protect them.
Our lot don’t give a scheiß about us.

25

You’re probably not wrong…

But the bit I do wonder about, is who are driving the trucks back in their own country?

Did their governments build up an army of drivers ready to flood the EU, the second they became members? :smiley:

Or is getting a LGV licence in these countries, as easy and cheap as buying a packet of ■■■■? - Correct me if the price is a full carton! :smiley:

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Its significantly cheaper. Last year I was working at P&H and one of the Polish drivers went back to Poland. He used a weeks holiday and came back with a CE. He told me at the time exactly how much it cost. I’ve forgotton now, but I remember thinking it was dirt cheap.

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robroy:

OVLOV JAY:
I don’t need a union, drivers rep or any brotherhood. I use the tongue I was born with. If things are wrong, I make my point, if nothing changes for the better, I find a job with better T’s and C’s. If nobody swallowed [zb], the job would sort itself out

I wasn’t suggesting we need either an old style militant union, or some kind of brotherhood as you put it, where we all wear cloaks funny hats and stand in a circle and chant :smiley: .
I agree with your point about speaking up and I do so myself, but as we both know others do not.
Companies only take the ■■■■ because drivers allow them to, :bulb: no other reason, and many fail to see this.
If there was an element of union in the broader sense of the word, in every company maybe they would not …that was my point.
I aint looking through rosy gregorys, but I do not remember the older guys when I started taking as much [zb] as some do today.

Thing is we are in a position now where companies think its the norm to tell a driver to jump with him saying “how high?” so when you do stand up for yourself you as others have said get branded as a “issue”.

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Those countries don’t have an economy anywhere near the size of ours, (5th richest nation on earth still in terms of potential to pay our debt lol) hence no need like us for truckers.

The eastern side of Europe is not Britain they have lower standards and more corruption so maybe for 400 Marlborough you can become a driver lol

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There’s a funny thing see, i’ve heard hard boys that were first in the queue when gobs were dished out telling the lad behind the desk how its gunna be, mouthing off round the yard to any unfortunate bugger who doesn’t spot 'em coming and gets caught, ‘‘i aint gunna do this’’, ‘‘i told him straight’’, countless bullshine cliches.

The company ignore them because they’re constantly wingeing, they spend more time checking to see what everyone else is doing than doing their own work, they’re jealous if someone gets a better or newer run lorry trailer ropes straps gloves uniform you name it, annoyed if that other person looks after said equipment and absolutely perplexed that someone else doesn’t ■■■■■ about things endlessly and isn’t interested in their latest complaint.

Nobody takes them seriously because they’re all wind and ■■■■.

I’ve been in meetings with these bods, wage meetings redundancy meetings you name it and they all have one thing in common…when the directors are present they’re as quiet as a church mouse, they don’t say boo to a goose, forced into a corner ‘‘sign up here or don’t come in Monday’’…yeah that car transporter operator is still going, the name’s changed several times but the big cheese who issued that ultimatum is still the big cheese…out of about 30 drivers two blokes walked out, me and one other, the gobby ones were clamouring to be first to sign, all mouth.

I’ve been in other meetings where me, my mate who i still work with near enough 30 years after this episode and myself and the shop steward were the only ones to say their piece, chucking some choice words in to let the gaffers know exactly how we felt, those who had shouted the odds all round the yard for weeks…heads bowed in total silence.

Gobbing off constantly does no good, being a whining child does no good, its like the boy who cried wolf, they get so used to it that it just goes in one ear and out the other, you’ll meet these bods every day of the week, they’ll be giving it large at a RDC or portside on Monday.

But if you are the sort who go about their job properly week in year out without whining, when you do go and speak to the boss about something genuine, they listen and take it seriously because they never hear you moan.

Its not spineless its called being reasonable.

30

ckm1981:

Carryfast:
Firstly a strike to succeed in a way which has any large scale effect it needs cross industry support in the form of sympathy/secondary action with the intention of lifting terms and conditions and/or protecting jobs across the economy as a whole.Which is what defeated the miners in 1984.

As for the old v young argument if it hadn’t been for people facing up to all the implications of strike action over the years the working class would still be where it was in the 1930’s in real terms.

While it is that change in attitudes which arguably defines the title of the topic.Although to be fair it ‘should be’ spineless working class,at least over recent generations,rather than just picking on one specific trade group.

Possibly the most noteable stikes of recent times was the miners strikes,where did that get everyone?
The working class have maybe become a lot more reluctant to strike because nowadays financially everything is much tighter,maybe I’m wrong,A recent study showed that 70% of “working class people” are 2 pay days away,or lack of actual pay, from suffering severe financial difficulties obviously this is always going to be a major factor when any INDIVIDUAL considers whether he should agree to join the status quo and go on strike,also I have always found that in most cases those shouting the loudest when in comes down to the crunch are the most unlikely to rebel.

As I said the miners were only defeated because the TUC didn’t back them with a guarantee of cross industry support.Which then leads to your other points.In that firstly we’re not talking about ‘individuals’ and the idea of a cross industry/general stoppage actually minimises the chance of living expenses defeating a strike before the employers have to back down.

Other than that type of scenario I’d agree,as proved by the miners, even a well supported,but still obviously relatively limited trade specific level of action,will probably inevitably fail.Which is why we are where we are now.With tax payers’ money being used to subsidise low wage employment in the form of tax credits and an economy based on exploitation as opposed to Fordist principles.

With even the Conservatives now starting to realise that something will have to give in that regard if they want the economy to survive. :open_mouth: :unamused:

31

They were saying on the News that these tax credits were just something for companies to get away with only paying the minimum wage since the government would provide the rest.

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Don’t either know or give a flying ■■■■ if some of the labels like… blowhard, hard men, bleaters etc etc from some of you are aimed directly at me, seeing as I started the thread, but if so read the 2 previous posts. I did say that a militant ‘I aint doing that’ attitude is worse than the guys that say yes to everything and moan. The happy medium lies in what I said in my o/p, that is politely put your point of view forward and stand up to unfair treatment, if some of you interprete that as being any of the above maybe that is your way to make you feel better about yourself if you regularly take it up the jacksey without complaint, who knows, who cares.
To the guy that said be an owner driver, …when I had guys working for me I didn’t ■■■■ them about and I treated them like men not kids and I got no hassle, you reap what you sow. :bulb: maybe some bosses should take that on board.

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Radar19:
They were saying on the News that these tax credits were just something for companies to get away with only paying the minimum wage since the government would provide the rest.

Jumping Jesus, they’re quick, was that Al-Beeb finally coming out of mourning that working class hero Ed got wiped out?

The whole economy is a giant ponzi scheme based on the housing bubble which continues due to the nearly 50,000 immigrants that arrive every month and cheap credit.

You’ve got to hand it to the Tory Social Democrat Party, they along with their media cronies managed to convince enough of the brain dead that they’ve saved the economy to re-elect them with a majority…at the same time as they’ve overseen the national debt rise to 1.5 Trillion Pounds, some economic miracle that.
I’m non too sure they really wanted a majority mind, who they going to point the finger in 2020 when its 2 trillion.

34

robroy:
Don’t either know or give a flying [zb] if some of the labels like… blowhard, hard men, bleaters etc etc from some of you are aimed directly at me, seeing as I started the thread, but if so read the 2 previous posts. I did say that a militant ‘I aint doing that’ attitude is worse than the guys that say yes to everything and moan. The happy medium lies in what I said in my o/p, that is politely put your point of view forward and stand up to unfair treatment, if some of you interprete that as being any of the above maybe that is your way to make you feel better about yourself if you regularly take it up the jacksey without complaint, who knows, who cares.
To the guy that said be an owner driver, …when I had guys working for me I didn’t [zb] them about and I treated them like men not kids and I got no hassle, you reap what you sow. :bulb: maybe some bosses should take that on board.

Quietly done when it’s required not on gobbing off daily is what i said, it wasn’t aimed at you, it was aimed at the mouthy ones who infest every yard and talk tough here too.

35

Juddian:

Radar19:
They were saying on the News that these tax credits were just something for companies to get away with only paying the minimum wage since the government would provide the rest.

Jumping Jesus, they’re quick, was that Al-Beeb finally coming out of mourning that working class hero Ed got wiped out?

The whole economy is a giant ponzi scheme based on the housing bubble which continues due to the nearly 50,000 immigrants that arrive every month and cheap credit.

You’ve got to hand it to the Tory Social Democrat Party, they along with their media cronies managed to convince enough of the brain dead that they’ve saved the economy to re-elect them with a majority…at the same time as they’ve overseen the national debt rise to 1.5 Trillion Pounds, some economic miracle that.
I’m non too sure they really wanted a majority mind, who they going to point the finger in 2020 when its 2 trillion.

Their next idea is cutting the maintenance grants for the poorest uni students.

36

Evil8Beezle:
But is there a driver shortage? Or just fears of one, that has yet to materialize…

Have wages gone up due to this alleged driver shortage? As wages in the form of supply and demand, can be the only true measure of whether there is a driver shortage?

no wages have not gone up if anything they will come down, as the shortage is being filled by much needed over seas drivers coming over here for the jobs on offer

already compaines are getting nick names with ski on the end of them like stobartski, great bear ski, dhl ski

so if your thinking your going to get a wage boost for sticking with it sadly it will not happen not unless of course they can stop the drivers from overseas coming over here

37

Olog Hai:

desypete:

LIBERTY_GUY:
It not just a driver’s thing, you can find spineless folks in every type of job out there.

Nowadays A lot of people out there think truck drivers are brainless neanderthals.

you only have to read many of the threads on this site to see how that thought comes about :smiley:

Oh the irony. Brainless to me is jacking a job to go on the dole in some kind of straw man quest to prove… who knows what?

Know what I mean, Phil?

anyone who would jack in there job to go on the dole to prove a point would indeed be a moron of the highest order.
even worse than those who stuck at there job hoping to be a smart arse and cash in on a driver shortage tjat never paid off for them, so there now trying to work out what the hell the drivers who did jack in do for a living these days
if they have no brains to figure out what to do instead of driving and make money at doing it then who am i to judge them ? the fact i think there morons is not really an issue merely my personal view point

38

desypete:
anyone who would jack in there job to go on the dole to prove a point would indeed be a moron of the highest order.
even worse than those who stuck at there job hoping to be a smart arse and cash in on a driver shortage tjat never paid off for them, so there now trying to work out what the hell the drivers who did jack in do for a living these days
if they have no brains to figure out what to do instead of driving and make money at doing it then who am i to judge them ? the fact i think there morons is not really an issue merely my personal view point

Pete mate ffs, you can’t keep calling everybody morons because they chose to keep their jobs. I’ve answered you this on countless other threads and you chose to ignore me so I will repeat it for the last time.
What difference would it make if say 20% of drivers done what you did, even though that is a lot of drivers it would not have made a ■■■■ of difference, as for ALL drivers you never get a majority of solidarity in any industry.
As for your stance…, the perceived one man crusade, I reckon it’s either a bite nose face situation or an excuse you have been looking for to get out of the job, I do not believe for one minute it was entirely and solely dcpc related. If you felt so anti dcpc why not beat them at their own game ie get it through the back door and keep your head down, keep your job, keep up appearances everybodys happy, job sorted.
As for your foreigners taking over completely? That is pure ■■■■■■■■ and you know it, the GOOD few Brit drivers will always stand out among everybody else.

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OVLOV JAY:
I don’t need a union, drivers rep or any brotherhood. I use the tongue I was born with. If things are wrong, I make my point, if nothing changes for the better, I find a job with better T’s and C’s. If nobody swallowed [zb], the job would sort itself out

I like you speak my mind and look after my work as seen fit by talking an dnegotiating a fair deal that suits me, and I am sure most drivers try to look after no1

Unfortunately no one man can fight the bigger issues like overnight parking, the CPC, wages on a national level and securing jobs for the future before all companies Employ from abroad the cheaper drivers.

This is when you need a combined voice that acts as one to sort out those bigger issues.

If the PDU can do as it says and “actually represent” drivers then maybe those bigger issues can be aired and sorted, but without a voice nothing will mprove on the bigger scale of things that are not just a local issue.

Sometimes things can be sorted out by an individual but not all things can be sorted unless it is seen and hard as a national issue.

The PDU has stated its aims and has my support to try and solve those issues that I cannot do on my own as an employed driver.

Right or wrong it is worth a try as no one else out there is tackling the bigger issues.
Have a look http://www.pdu-uk.co.uk

PS The PDU is anti strike

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