Sounds Like A Lovely Boss

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
121

Rjan:

Carryfast:
Blimey don’t let switch see that because it mentions sharing the burden and he thinks anyone who won’t work 12 hours a day 6 days a week,as opposed to sharing that between two workers,doing a 36 hour 3 day week each,is a lazy git. :open_mouth: :laughing:

Quite, and immediately before he said that, I forecast that there are many workers accustomed to doing those sorts of hours who share the view of the bosses, that anybody who expects more balance is a “lazy git”.

The definition of Turkeys voting for Christmas.So the boss has filtered out the militants and provided a ready made pool of mugs before he starts.They all then throw themselves into the mire calling it refreshing straight talking. :wink:

122

switchlogic:

Carryfast:

Rjan:
40 hours is the standard workweek, and overtime beyond that is supposed to be penal to stop employers over-using it (either to run workers ragged, or to give excessive work to some workers rather than sharing the burden). If the basic rate isn’t enough to live, then that is the problem.

Blimey don’t let switch see that because it mentions sharing the burden and he thinks anyone who won’t work 12 hours a day 6 days a week,as opposed to sharing that between two workers,doing a 36 hour 3 day week each,is a lazy git. :open_mouth: :laughing:

You do know I do 4 on 4 off myself don’t you? Sort of fatally holes your incorrect opinion of what I think.

Not exactly because as I read it you wouldn’t even give anyone a job if like me they told the boss I’m a lazy git I only want a 3 day week x two of us.Yes we know it’s only occasional Saturdays that’s his story. :laughing: :wink:

123

Carryfast:

switchlogic:

Carryfast:

Rjan:
40 hours is the standard workweek, and overtime beyond that is supposed to be penal to stop employers over-using it (either to run workers ragged, or to give excessive work to some workers rather than sharing the burden). If the basic rate isn’t enough to live, then that is the problem.

Blimey don’t let switch see that because it mentions sharing the burden and he thinks anyone who won’t work 12 hours a day 6 days a week,as opposed to sharing that between two workers,doing a 36 hour 3 day week each,is a lazy git. :open_mouth: :laughing:

You do know I do 4 on 4 off myself don’t you? Sort of fatally holes your incorrect opinion of what I think.

Not exactly because as I read it you wouldn’t even give anyone a job if like me they told the boss I’m a lazy git I only want a 3 day week x two of us.Yes we know it’s only occasional Saturdays that’s his story. :laughing: :wink:

I give up you loon bag :smiley:

124

Hasn’t this thread drifted slightly off topic? :confused: My last gaffer (who I knew for many years before I worked for him) told me what the wage structure was, wasn’t bothered if I worked at weekends or not as he didn’t, wasn’t bothered what work I did (I had to find a lot of my own loads anyway) as long as I looked after the truck mechanically. All nice and easy, we both knew where we stood and it was the happiest five years of my working life until sadly he was forced to make me redundant. You have to have a good worker/boss relationship otherwise going to work just becomes a chore and not a pleasurable experience.

Pete.

125

windrush:
Hasn’t this thread drifted slightly off topic? :confused: My last gaffer (who I knew for many years before I worked for him) told me what the wage structure was, wasn’t bothered if I worked at weekends or not as he didn’t, wasn’t bothered what work I did (I had to find a lot of my own loads anyway) as long as I looked after the truck mechanically. All nice and easy, we both knew where we stood and it was the happiest five years of my working life until sadly he was forced to make me redundant. You have to have a good worker/boss relationship otherwise going to work just becomes a chore and not a pleasurable experience.

Pete.

Firstly everything seems to be in line with an ad which reads between the lines as early starts/late finishes required probably on a real world 6 day week basis.Seemingly also anyone proposing doing that as a job share on a 3 day week basis is a lazy git ?. :laughing:

While it’s always been the case that the interests of employer and employee are opposite in terms of their expected respective work v reward equation.By definition it’s the nature of the employer/employee relationship unfortunately.

But which still leaves the question why would any employer prefer one employee working long days,6 days a week.When the same job could be shared among two without any considerable reduction in the employers’ reward side of the equation.Oh wait the maths says that reduces the labour supply side of the equation we know the rest.

126

windrush:
Hasn’t this thread drifted slightly off topic? :confused: My last gaffer (who I knew for many years before I worked for him) told me what the wage structure was, wasn’t bothered if I worked at weekends or not as he didn’t, wasn’t bothered what work I did (I had to find a lot of my own loads anyway) as long as I looked after the truck mechanically. All nice and easy, we both knew where we stood and it was the happiest five years of my working life until sadly he was forced to make me redundant. You have to have a good worker/boss relationship otherwise going to work just becomes a chore and not a pleasurable experience.

Pete.

Well i’ll be buggerd, i enjoy this forum and don’t want to get kicked off for making outlandish or offending statements but are you saying that one should like their job ? You actually mean driving a wagon and enjoying it ?
Don’t you know it’s all about the money these days, you, you, knuckle dragger you :wink: :wink:

127

remy:

windrush:
Hasn’t this thread drifted slightly off topic? :confused: My last gaffer (who I knew for many years before I worked for him) told me what the wage structure was, wasn’t bothered if I worked at weekends or not as he didn’t, wasn’t bothered what work I did (I had to find a lot of my own loads anyway) as long as I looked after the truck mechanically. All nice and easy, we both knew where we stood and it was the happiest five years of my working life until sadly he was forced to make me redundant. You have to have a good worker/boss relationship otherwise going to work just becomes a chore and not a pleasurable experience.

Pete.

Well i’ll be buggerd, i enjoy this forum and don’t want to get kicked off for making outlandish or offending statements but are you saying that one should like their job ? You actually mean driving a wagon and enjoying it ?
Don’t you know it’s all about the money these days, you, you, knuckle dragger you :wink: :wink:

Risking all here :open_mouth: .
I like my job, a lot, enjoy going to work, refuse absolutely the insistence of the bloody lorry in controlling itself, i’m in control ta you you box of electronic bloody chips you.
Left alone and trusted to get on with it, no phones perma-ringing, not a pointy shoed gelled hair ■■■■■■■■ talking box ticking specimin to be found in the place, well remunerated and treated with respect, what’s not to like.

Will we get a warning off the mods that unless we take some extra strong depression causing pills we’ll be put on probation or will it be automatic permanent ban :smiling_imp:

128

Juddian:

remy:
Well i’ll be buggerd, i enjoy this forum and don’t want to get kicked off for making outlandish or offending statements but are you saying that one should like their job ? You actually mean driving a wagon and enjoying it ?
Don’t you know it’s all about the money these days, you, you, knuckle dragger you :wink: :wink:

Risking all here :open_mouth: .
I like my job, a lot, enjoy going to work, refuse absolutely the insistence of the bloody lorry in controlling itself, i’m in control ta you you box of electronic bloody chips you.
Left alone and trusted to get on with it, no phones perma-ringing, not a pointy shoed gelled hair ■■■■■■■■ talking box ticking specimin to be found in the place, well remunerated and treated with respect, what’s not to like.

Will we get a warning off the mods that unless we take some extra strong depression causing pills we’ll be put on probation or will it be automatic permanent ban :smiling_imp:

I think the argument is more along the lines of civilised start and finish times Monday to Friday,no tacho so can take a break as and when and for as long as you feel like without the govnor knowing about it.Would prefer to be driving a turbo Rolls/Fuller Foden than a Scammell Routeman or an automated modern.Sounds like a good argument for drivers to have the bottle to say I’m a lazy git and open door Australian imports and domestic regs to apply to tippers to me. :wink:

129

remy:

windrush:
Hasn’t this thread drifted slightly off topic? :confused: My last gaffer (who I knew for many years before I worked for him) told me what the wage structure was, wasn’t bothered if I worked at weekends or not as he didn’t, wasn’t bothered what work I did (I had to find a lot of my own loads anyway) as long as I looked after the truck mechanically. All nice and easy, we both knew where we stood and it was the happiest five years of my working life until sadly he was forced to make me redundant. You have to have a good worker/boss relationship otherwise going to work just becomes a chore and not a pleasurable experience.

Pete.

Well i’ll be buggerd, i enjoy this forum and don’t want to get kicked off for making outlandish or offending statements but are you saying that one should like their job ? You actually mean driving a wagon and enjoying it ?
Don’t you know it’s all about the money these days, you, you, knuckle dragger you :wink: :wink:

It works the same from the other side of the fence. A business is easier and pleasanter to run if both sides get rid of the adversarial approach to employing and employment.

In my business the interests of myself and my drivers were aligned. Sadly the firm that they have TUPEd over to are itching for the end of the year to change terms and conditions. Sounds as if I’m romanticisng somewhat, but I didnt have any reason not to trust my drivers and they thought the same of me.

Job share would not have worked CF, some jobs it just doesn’t.

130

Juddian:

remy:

windrush:
Hasn’t this thread drifted slightly off topic? :confused: My last gaffer (who I knew for many years before I worked for him) told me what the wage structure was, wasn’t bothered if I worked at weekends or not as he didn’t, wasn’t bothered what work I did (I had to find a lot of my own loads anyway) as long as I looked after the truck mechanically. All nice and easy, we both knew where we stood and it was the happiest five years of my working life until sadly he was forced to make me redundant. You have to have a good worker/boss relationship otherwise going to work just becomes a chore and not a pleasurable experience.

Pete.

Well i’ll be buggerd, i enjoy this forum and don’t want to get kicked off for making outlandish or offending statements but are you saying that one should like their job ? You actually mean driving a wagon and enjoying it ?
Don’t you know it’s all about the money these days, you, you, knuckle dragger you :wink: :wink:

Risking all here :open_mouth: .
I like my job, a lot, enjoy going to work, refuse absolutely the insistence of the bloody lorry in controlling itself, i’m in control ta you you box of electronic bloody chips you.
Left alone and trusted to get on with it, no phones perma-ringing, not a pointy shoed gelled hair ■■■■■■■■ talking box ticking specimin to be found in the place, well remunerated and treated with respect, what’s not to like.

Will we get a warning off the mods that unless we take some extra strong depression causing pills we’ll be put on probation or will it be automatic permanent ban :smiling_imp:

Not this one! If I start up again I’ll give you a shout though, think well get on fine.

PS,some of my shoes are pointy - do I have an exemption being female :wink:

131

Carryfast:
Firstly everything seems to be in line with an ad which reads between the lines as early starts/late finishes required probably on a real world 6 day week basis.Seemingly also anyone proposing doing that as a job share on a 3 day week basis is a lazy git ?. :laughing:

While it’s always been the case that the interests of employer and employee are opposite in terms of their expected respective work v reward equation.By definition it’s the nature of the employer/employee relationship unfortunately.

But which still leaves the question why would any employer prefer one employee working long days,6 days a week.When the same job could be shared among two without any considerable reduction in the employers’ reward side of the equation.Oh wait the maths says that reduces the labour supply side of the equation we know the rest.

Well Carryfast, I have never worked for anyone who thought like that? All the firms I drove for never expected me (or any other drivers) to do anything that they wouldn’t do themselves. If they hadn’t done the job then they could hardly tell their drivers how to do it. Nothing wrong with early starts either, through choice or because of the time factor, and I preferred them.

Example, my very last day on a rigid eight wheeler tipper back in 1997 started with loading tarmac at our quarry just north of Ashbourne at 5am for Castle Vale, Birmingham. Back to quarry for around 8.30 to load tarmac for Balderton near Newark, machine lay so took a while. Back to base, then a local load of stone to Ashbourne and then finished off with tarmac to Sheffield which was handlay so a couple of hours daywork. Back to base, clean cab out and hand keys in, gaffer made me a drink and thanked me for my work (22 years) and wished me well for the future. I was still back home (a 30 minute drive) for 7.30 ish so hardly a long day compared to some companies and nowhere near 15 hours in the truck. Steady enough day, and no real pressure on me, but then I didn’t have to chase my tail all day like some drivers.

Pete.

132

albion:
It works the same from the other side of the fence. A business is easier and pleasanter to run if both sides get rid of the adversarial approach to employing and employment.

In my business the interests of myself and my drivers were aligned. Sadly the firm that they have TUPEd over to are itching for the end of the year to change terms and conditions. Sounds as if I’m romanticisng somewhat, but I didnt have any reason not to trust my drivers and they thought the same of me.

Job share would not have worked CF, some jobs it just doesn’t.

Sadly in the real world it just doesn’t work like that.Wages and terms and conditions always one way or another,sooner or later,get dragged into the competitive tendering process as a way of either under cutting rivals and/or adding to the bottom line on the balance sheet.That’s why we had to have unions and the more militant the better to throw a spanner in the works of that unholy exploitative rolling process.First and foremost with the aim of removing wages and terms and conditions from that competitive market process.Everything else being fair game.

As for job share it can work at all levels of operation local to distance.Either in the form of in this case sharing a likely 6 day 72 hour week between two workers on a 3 day week basis.To sharing an international trunk between two drivers on the basis of one or two weeks on one or two weeks off.Or even domestic or international distance tramping on a 4 on 4 off or one month or more on one month or more off basis.It would of course be a game changer regarding the labour supply side of the equation resulting in a self propagating wage increase environment making the idea even more lucrative from the employees’ point of view but obviously more distasteful from the point of view of the employer.Which I think probably answers my own question.

133

Blimey, the self appointed employment expert is still going?! If you gave up posting complete waffle on here Carryfast you’d easily have time and energy for a 5 day week! :wink: A couple of weeks ago you were obsessed with 4 days weeks, now it’s 3, give it a month and you’ll be saying everyone should be working 6 hours a week :smiley:

134

switchlogic:
Blimey, the self appointed employment expert is still going?! If you gave up posting complete waffle on here Carryfast you’d easily have time and energy for a 5 day week! :wink: A couple of weeks ago you were obsessed with 4 days weeks, now it’s 3, give it a month and you’ll be saying everyone should be working 6 hours a week :smiley:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ what■■?..every week?..ffs!!! :slight_smile:

135

Carryfast:
[Seemingly also anyone proposing doing that as a job share on a 3 day week basis is a lazy git ?. :laughing:

Can you point out where I said people who want 3/4 days a week are ‘lazy gits’ please, as it’s confusing me. Not least because I’ve never called anyone a git in my life

136

albion:
Not this one! If I start up again I’ll give you a shout though, think well get on fine.

PS,some of my shoes are pointy - do I have an exemption being female :wink:

I think we could manage ‘‘those’’ types of shoes, as worn by fair maiden and not Trevor in his alter ego :laughing:

137

Juddian:

remy:

windrush:
Hasn’t this thread drifted slightly off topic? :confused: My last gaffer (who I knew for many years before I worked for him) told me what the wage structure was, wasn’t bothered if I worked at weekends or not as he didn’t, wasn’t bothered what work I did (I had to find a lot of my own loads anyway) as long as I looked after the truck mechanically. All nice and easy, we both knew where we stood and it was the happiest five years of my working life until sadly he was forced to make me redundant. You have to have a good worker/boss relationship otherwise going to work just becomes a chore and not a pleasurable experience.

Pete.

Well i’ll be buggerd, i enjoy this forum and don’t want to get kicked off for making outlandish or offending statements but are you saying that one should like their job ? You actually mean driving a wagon and enjoying it ?
Don’t you know it’s all about the money these days, you, you, knuckle dragger you :wink: :wink:

Risking all here :open_mouth: .
I like my job, a lot, enjoy going to work, refuse absolutely the insistence of the bloody lorry in controlling itself, i’m in control ta you you box of electronic bloody chips you.
Left alone and trusted to get on with it, no phones perma-ringing, not a pointy shoed gelled hair ■■■■■■■■ talking box ticking specimin to be found in the place, well remunerated and treated with respect, what’s not to like.

Will we get a warning off the mods that unless we take some extra strong depression causing pills we’ll be put on probation or will it be automatic permanent ban :smiling_imp:

I broke my arm in a skydiving accident (I fell over whilst watching a friend jump out of a plane, sounds much cooler when I dont explain!) and rather than going on sick with ssp for six weeks, my place offered to train me up in the office. Double bonus, I get paid and they get a trained person to cover the office.

All I can say is what an eye opener. First off, the amount of ■■■■■■■■ and rubbish that comes down from the jag driving gaffers in their ivory towers is unbelievable. All of this gets drip fed down to the drivers via the office, who then get called to ■■■■ by drivers for something which isnt necessarily their fault. Now I knew this went on of course, but not to this extent. EDIT forgot to say, I didn’t realise how beholden to the computer system we are. If the computer says its doable, its doable. If the computer says it has to be done, it has to be done. The computer of course doesnt operate in the real world and doesn’t understand things like traffic jams, road closures or the fact that drivers are human.

Secondly, what a bunch of wet ends we have driving for us. I doubt our yard is unique in this respect because company and agency drivers were exactly the same. With just a few exceptions, drivers needed their hand holding in everything they did. From post codes instead of maps to phone calls saying theres a bridge blocking their way (at least they stopped I suppose) via “theres a bulb out, what do I do”? Obviously there were exceptions, and they weren’t the drivers i expected to be able to work on their own initiative. It took me a while to figure out who I could chuck the keys at and who needed babysitting.

Needless to say, I’m looking forward to getting back in the lorry next week. I guess I really do like my job after all!!

138

Nite Owl:

Juddian:

remy:

windrush:
Hasn’t this thread drifted slightly off topic? :confused: My last gaffer (who I knew for many years before I worked for him) told me what the wage structure was, wasn’t bothered if I worked at weekends or not as he didn’t, wasn’t bothered what work I did (I had to find a lot of my own loads anyway) as long as I looked after the truck mechanically. All nice and easy, we both knew where we stood and it was the happiest five years of my working life until sadly he was forced to make me redundant. You have to have a good worker/boss relationship otherwise going to work just becomes a chore and not a pleasurable experience.

Pete.

Well i’ll be buggerd, i enjoy this forum and don’t want to get kicked off for making outlandish or offending statements but are you saying that one should like their job ? You actually mean driving a wagon and enjoying it ?
Don’t you know it’s all about the money these days, you, you, knuckle dragger you :wink: :wink:

Risking all here :open_mouth: .
I like my job, a lot, enjoy going to work, refuse absolutely the insistence of the bloody lorry in controlling itself, i’m in control ta you you box of electronic bloody chips you.
Left alone and trusted to get on with it, no phones perma-ringing, not a pointy shoed gelled hair ■■■■■■■■ talking box ticking specimin to be found in the place, well remunerated and treated with respect, what’s not to like.

Will we get a warning off the mods that unless we take some extra strong depression causing pills we’ll be put on probation or will it be automatic permanent ban :smiling_imp:

I broke my arm in a skydiving accident (I fell over whilst watching a friend jump out of a plane, sounds much cooler when I dont explain!) and rather than going on sick with ssp for six weeks, my place offered to train me up in the office. Double bonus, I get paid and they get a trained person to cover the office.

All I can say is what an eye opener. First off, the amount of ■■■■■■■■ and rubbish that comes down from the jag driving gaffers in their ivory towers is unbelievable. All of this gets drip fed down to the drivers via the office, who then get called to [zb] by drivers for something which isnt necessarily their fault. Now I knew this went on of course, but not to this extent. EDIT forgot to say, I didn’t realise how beholden to the computer system we are. If the computer says its doable, its doable. If the computer says it has to be done, it has to be done. The computer of course doesnt operate in the real world and doesn’t understand things like traffic jams, road closures or the fact that drivers are human.

Secondly, what a bunch of wet ends we have driving for us. I doubt our yard is unique in this respect because company and agency drivers were exactly the same. With just a few exceptions, drivers needed their hand holding in everything they did. From post codes instead of maps to phone calls saying theres a bridge blocking their way (at least they stopped I suppose) via “theres a bulb out, what do I do”? Obviously there were exceptions, and they weren’t the drivers i expected to be able to work on their own initiative. It took me a while to figure out who I could chuck the keys at and who needed babysitting.

Needless to say, I’m looking forward to getting back in the lorry next week. I guess I really do like my job after all!!

I asked one of my drivers to cover the office for me for one day when we were a smaller firm and it was just me and ten drivers.

It was a quiet day. At the end of it he said, I dont know how you do that :laughing: . I certainly could never work for a big firm, but even the small ones dont have it as easy as some drivers think as far as the office goes.

139

Carryfast:

albion:
It works the same from the other side of the fence. A business is easier and pleasanter to run if both sides get rid of the adversarial approach to employing and employment.

In my business the interests of myself and my drivers were aligned. Sadly the firm that they have TUPEd over to are itching for the end of the year to change terms and conditions. Sounds as if I’m romanticisng somewhat, but I didnt have any reason not to trust my drivers and they thought the same of me.

Job share would not have worked CF, some jobs it just doesn’t.

Sadly in the real world it just doesn’t work like that.Wages and terms and conditions always one way or another,sooner or later,get dragged into the competitive tendering process as a way of either under cutting rivals and/or adding to the bottom line on the balance sheet.That’s why we had to have unions and the more militant the better to throw a spanner in the works of that unholy exploitative rolling process.First and foremost with the aim of removing wages and terms and conditions from that competitive market process.Everything else being fair game.

As for job share it can work at all levels of operation local to distance.Either in the form of in this case sharing a likely 6 day 72 hour week between two workers on a 3 day week basis.To sharing an international trunk between two drivers on the basis of one or two weeks on one or two weeks off.Or even domestic or international distance tramping on a 4 on 4 off or one month or more on one month or more off basis.It would of course be a game changer regarding the labour supply side of the equation resulting in a self propagating wage increase environment making the idea even more lucrative from the employees’ point of view but obviously more distasteful from the point of view of the employer.Which I think probably answers my own question.

Really CF you do talk some balderdash, old fruit.

Mostly telling me I dont know about my own business whereas you do.

You may have a point in the wider picture, but what works for most firms doesn’t apply to all. All that happened in my little firm was terms and conditions going up. I didnt finish work because of rates, I got the rates I wanted.

Likely 6 day 72 hour week? You see our weeks could range from 10 hours (getting paid 40 to 60-70. We once paid 123 hours for one week (perfectly legal running). I can imagine how that would work as we never got any hint of workflow hence often having drivers on standby, ie rules were have your day off but keep your phone by you, or let us know if you were in the pool for an hour in case you were called in. 90% of the time you weren’t. So Switchlogic gets ‘lucky’ and gets the busy weeks and carry fast is unlucky and gets the quiet weeks. Now that might suit you personally, getting paid to work 10 getting paid 40, but if you are someone that wants to do more and you were working on average earnings as mentioned at the interview, you’d not be happy.

If you want to Witter on about your new pet idea that nasty bosses are working drivers to death in order to suppress wages, crack on. But that’s all the energy I wish to expend now.

140

switchlogic:
Blimey, the self appointed employment expert is still going?! If you gave up posting complete waffle on here Carryfast you’d easily have time and energy for a 5 day week! :wink: A couple of weeks ago you were obsessed with 4 days weeks, now it’s 3, give it a month and you’ll be saying everyone should be working 6 hours a week :smiley:

Now you’re just being silly. :open_mouth: :laughing:

Seriously you know bleedin well what I mean being horses for courses and in this case would possibly work quite well for two older drivers mid 50’s + who are winding down approaching retirement.