Winseer:
kcrussell25:
nightline:
The answers to this post tells a whole lot
Drivers living beound there means while working for buttons
Anyone who works and is depending on there current weekly wages to live or pay bills is living beound there means
As you all seem to believe you all earn a fortune every week
I don’t think so more like below minimum wage if the truth be told
I don’t disagree that some live beyond their means but as said going from £500 a week to around £85 is a big drop if more than a week or 2
Living within one’s means - also means “refusing to borrow cash to pay for stuff that can gone without.”
Thus, if you don’t borrow at all - you are living within your means, regardless of one’s earnings, or outgoings - which might still leave a deficit each month.
There must be over a million people in this country who, one week before the monthly payday - are living on noodles, watching a lot of TV, and hanging around supermarkets late on friday night… 
As I said before I won’t disagree with that, however for those who were not lucky enough to buy a house 20 plus years ago mortgage/rent will be (area dependent of course) be shelling out upwards of £500 per month, low estimate. Couple of hundred for council tax and utilities and you can see how a couple of months off work soon starts burning though savings when only on ssp.
Honked:
My mrs works a flexible 37.5 hr week, has 32 days plus 8 bank hols, has never started before 8 or worked after 5.30, gets just under £17 an hour and has full sick pay for 6 months, half pay for 6 months.
She thinks we are mad doing what we do.
Does she work for the NHS / public sector by per chance?
There is no doubt that sick pay offerings like this are fantastic for the genuine cases but here is the rub… A friend of mine does HR for the health service & unfortunately spends most of his time dealing with the monumentous & widespread abuse of the sick pay offering. I can guarantee 100% that if similar sick pay offerings were made available by hauliers there would be drivers rinsing it making it unaffordable for most outfits running on small margins, spoiling it for the rest of us. I know I wouldn’t trust most drivers with it.
My lot pay SSP but will pay additional sick pay on a discretionary basis.
kcrussell25:
Winseer:
kcrussell25:
nightline:
The answers to this post tells a whole lot
Drivers living beound there means while working for buttons
Anyone who works and is depending on there current weekly wages to live or pay bills is living beound there means
As you all seem to believe you all earn a fortune every week
I don’t think so more like below minimum wage if the truth be told
I don’t disagree that some live beyond their means but as said going from £500 a week to around £85 is a big drop if more than a week or 2
Living within one’s means - also means “refusing to borrow cash to pay for stuff that can gone without.”
Thus, if you don’t borrow at all - you are living within your means, regardless of one’s earnings, or outgoings - which might still leave a deficit each month.
There must be over a million people in this country who, one week before the monthly payday - are living on noodles, watching a lot of TV, and hanging around supermarkets late on friday night…
As I said before I won’t disagree with that, however for those who were not lucky enough to buy a house 20 plus years ago mortgage/rent will be (area dependent of course) be shelling out upwards of £500 per month, low estimate. Couple of hundred for council tax and utilities and you can see how a couple of months off work soon starts burning though savings when only on ssp.
Anyone with a mortgage should have a loss of earnings insurance in place to cover the payments. It isn’t that expensive.
Maybe it should be compulsory? When you get a mortgage quote, the insurance would be included by law so there are no additional charges to come. You can’t run an expensive car without suitable insurance, neither should you be able to get a mortgage you can’t really afford.
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The issue there is whike payment protection insurance for a mortgage may be not that expensive now, making it compulsory suddenly changes that because there is no option of not having it and thus it becomes a captive and uncompetitive market
toonsy:
The issue there is whike payment protection insurance for a mortgage may be not that expensive now, making it compulsory suddenly changes that because there is no option of not having it and thus it becomes a captive and uncompetitive market
I don’t see that. There will still be a range of providers competing against each other. And with a minimum standard by law the cheapest will still be valid, instead of being run by those who avoid payouts at all costs. Freedom of choice shouldn’t extent to the freedom to buy insurance thst doesn’t work. Surely only swindlers want that? (How many politicians cry for it though? Draw your conclusions there).
Initially it’ll seem more expensive, but will settle down to be normal with more realistic expectations.
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rob22888:
Honked:
My mrs works a flexible 37.5 hr week, has 32 days plus 8 bank hols, has never started before 8 or worked after 5.30, gets just under £17 an hour and has full sick pay for 6 months, half pay for 6 months.
She thinks we are mad doing what we do.
Does she work for the NHS / public sector by per chance?
There is no doubt that sick pay offerings like this are fantastic for the genuine cases but here is the rub… A friend of mine does HR for the health service & unfortunately spends most of his time dealing with the monumentous & widespread abuse of the sick pay offering. I can guarantee 100% that if similar sick pay offerings were made available by hauliers there would be drivers rinsing it making it unaffordable for most outfits running on small margins, spoiling it for the rest of us. I know I wouldn’t trust most drivers with it.
My lot pay SSP but will pay additional sick pay on a discretionary basis.
She works for a private company who employ around 800 staff. There are a few who abuse the system (like in every job) but the majority treat it as a back up if needed not a luxury extended holiday scheme.
Just been signed up to my compulsory pension at my place, one driver has already told me that the boss is being taken to court as he wont pay his percentage into the scheme, go figure that out.
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rob22888:
Honked:
My mrs works a flexible 37.5 hr week, has 32 days plus 8 bank hols, has never started before 8 or worked after 5.30, gets just under £17 an hour and has full sick pay for 6 months, half pay for 6 months.
She thinks we are mad doing what we do.
Does she work for the NHS / public sector by per chance?
There is no doubt that sick pay offerings like this are fantastic for the genuine cases but here is the rub… A friend of mine does HR for the health service & unfortunately spends most of his time dealing with the monumentous & widespread abuse of the sick pay offering. I can guarantee 100% that if similar sick pay offerings were made available by hauliers there would be drivers rinsing it making it unaffordable for most outfits running on small margins, spoiling it for the rest of us. I know I wouldn’t trust most drivers with it.
My lot pay SSP but will pay additional sick pay on a discretionary basis.
I’ve a couple of friends that work for the NHS and they both say the same, the abuse is appalling yet management won’t get a grip and do something about it.
I have thought about doing discretionary Sick Pay before now but whenever I look at it, I think it leaves you open to claims of favouritism, never quite got my head round it.
albion:
rob22888:
Honked:
My mrs works a flexible 37.5 hr week, has 32 days plus 8 bank hols, has never started before 8 or worked after 5.30, gets just under £17 an hour and has full sick pay for 6 months, half pay for 6 months.
She thinks we are mad doing what we do.
Does she work for the NHS / public sector by per chance?
There is no doubt that sick pay offerings like this are fantastic for the genuine cases but here is the rub… A friend of mine does HR for the health service & unfortunately spends most of his time dealing with the monumentous & widespread abuse of the sick pay offering. I can guarantee 100% that if similar sick pay offerings were made available by hauliers there would be drivers rinsing it making it unaffordable for most outfits running on small margins, spoiling it for the rest of us. I know I wouldn’t trust most drivers with it.
My lot pay SSP but will pay additional sick pay on a discretionary basis.
I’ve a couple of friends that work for the NHS and they both say the same, the abuse is appalling yet management won’t get a grip and do something about it.
I have thought about doing discretionary Sick Pay before now but whenever I look at it, I think it leaves you open to claims of favouritism, never quite got my head round it.
It is a difficult problem to apply discretionary payment fairly. Probably easier on smaller companies. Maybe not? In bigger ones we see people learning the rules and “playing the system”. Bigger faceless companies etc it’s seen as more acceptable I reckon. But the end result is similar, a few greedy ones ruining it for the majority.
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Franglais:
albion:
[
I’ve a couple of friends that work for the NHS and they both say the same, the abuse is appalling yet management won’t get a grip and do something about it.
I have thought about doing discretionary Sick Pay before now but whenever I look at it, I think it leaves you open to claims of favouritism, never quite got my head round it.
It is a difficult problem to apply discretionary payment fairly. Probably easier on smaller companies. Maybe not? In bigger ones we see people learning the rules and “playing the system”. Bigger faceless companies etc it’s seen as more acceptable I reckon. But the end result is similar, a few greedy ones ruining it for the majority.
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[/quote]
It’ll be interesting to see if Rob can elaborate how it works. I suspect there will be parameters, but in all things, there’ll be a time when you scratch your head and say does this meet the criteria, decide it does, then a bit later another set of circumstances, not the same but not wildly different will occur and you rule against a discretionary pay… I think I’ll leave it alone.
albion:
Franglais:
albion:
[
I’ve a couple of friends that work for the NHS and they both say the same, the abuse is appalling yet management won’t get a grip and do something about it.
I have thought about doing discretionary Sick Pay before now but whenever I look at it, I think it leaves you open to claims of favouritism, never quite got my head round it.
It is a difficult problem to apply discretionary payment fairly. Probably easier on smaller companies. Maybe not? In bigger ones we see people learning the rules and “playing the system”. Bigger faceless companies etc it’s seen as more acceptable I reckon. But the end result is similar, a few greedy ones ruining it for the majority.
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It’ll be interesting to see if Rob can elaborate how it works. I suspect there will be parameters, but in all things, there’ll be a time when you scratch your head and say does this meet the criteria, decide it does, then a bit later another set of circumstances, not the same but not wildly different will occur and you rule against a discretionary pay… I think I’ll leave it alone.
[/quote]
That’s why I suspect it’ll be easier in a smaller company where bosses really know the workers and don’t blindly follow the book? Favourtism? Or justly rewarding the workers who do the best job?
It is difficult to draw the lines, that’s why it has to be discretionary.
PS. PM-ed on different topic.
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Franglais:
kcrussell25:
Winseer:
kcrussell25:
[
I don’t disagree that some live beyond their means but as said going from £500 a week to around £85 is a big drop if more than a week or 2
Living within one’s means - also means “refusing to borrow cash to pay for stuff that can gone without.”
Thus, if you don’t borrow at all - you are living within your means, regardless of one’s earnings, or outgoings - which might still leave a deficit each month.
There must be over a million people in this country who, one week before the monthly payday - are living on noodles, watching a lot of TV, and hanging around supermarkets late on friday night…
As I said before I won’t disagree with that, however for those who were not lucky enough to buy a house 20 plus years ago mortgage/rent will be (area dependent of course) be shelling out upwards of £500 per month, low estimate. Couple of hundred for council tax and utilities and you can see how a couple of months off work soon starts burning though savings when only on ssp.
Anyone with a mortgage should have a loss of earnings insurance in place to cover the payments. It isn’t that expensive.
Maybe it should be compulsory? When you get a mortgage quote, the insurance would be included by law so there are no additional charges to come. You can’t run an expensive car without suitable insurance, neither should you be able to get a mortgage you can’t really afford.
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I agree and I do. However some people can’t get cover due to pre existing conditions or are sold a policy that isn’t any use. Ppi for example.
As said I have a policy and hope I never need to use it but I also have a bit or cash to one side in case they don’t pay out
Franglais:
albion:
Franglais:
albion:
[
I’ve a couple of friends that work for the NHS and they both say the same, the abuse is appalling yet management won’t get a grip and do something about it.
I have thought about doing discretionary Sick Pay before now but whenever I look at it, I think it leaves you open to claims of favouritism, never quite got my head round it.
It is a difficult problem to apply discretionary payment fairly. Probably easier on smaller companies. Maybe not? In bigger ones we see people learning the rules and “playing the system”. Bigger faceless companies etc it’s seen as more acceptable I reckon. But the end result is similar, a few greedy ones ruining it for the majority.
Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk
It’ll be interesting to see if Rob can elaborate how it works. I suspect there will be parameters, but in all things, there’ll be a time when you scratch your head and say does this meet the criteria, decide it does, then a bit later another set of circumstances, not the same but not wildly different will occur and you rule against a discretionary pay… I think I’ll leave it alone.
That’s why I suspect it’ll be easier in a smaller company where bosses really know the workers and don’t blindly follow the book? Favourtism? Or justly rewarding the workers who do the best job?
It is difficult to draw the lines, that’s why it has to be discretionary.
PS. PM-ed on different topic.
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[/quote]
The nhs and any government department wont deal with the issue as its not their money and it is not a business that needs to control costs. My girlfriend works in a college and to deal constantly with people being off.
I thought “discretionary” sick pay had all but gone? As Albion says it is a huge minefield and leaves all sorts of claims open. Not least a “British” worker getting it and a “foreign” driver not would immediately be a tribunal for racism even if race was nothing to do with it.
The coats and fines for losing could easily put many firms out of business
This actually shows the culture difference of manual v office working. Manual workers are paid low and treated to lower standards yet turn up for work even if they are dying. Office workers get higher pay and better conditions, yet take weeks off sick for a runny nose.
One section thinks they can bring the country to its knees within a week, the other section live longer, happier lives.
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kcrussell25:
Franglais:
albion:
Franglais:
albion:
[
I’ve a couple of friends that work for the NHS and they both say the same, the abuse is appalling yet management won’t get a grip and do something about it.
I have thought about doing discretionary Sick Pay before now but whenever I look at it, I think it leaves you open to claims of favouritism, never quite got my head round it.
It is a difficult problem to apply discretionary payment fairly. Probably easier on smaller companies. Maybe not? In bigger ones we see people learning the rules and “playing the system”. Bigger faceless companies etc it’s seen as more acceptable I reckon. But the end result is similar, a few greedy ones ruining it for the majority.
Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk
It’ll be interesting to see if Rob can elaborate how it works. I suspect there will be parameters, but in all things, there’ll be a time when you scratch your head and say does this meet the criteria, decide it does, then a bit later another set of circumstances, not the same but not wildly different will occur and you rule against a discretionary pay… I think I’ll leave it alone.
That’s why I suspect it’ll be easier in a smaller company where bosses really know the workers and don’t blindly follow the book? Favourtism? Or justly rewarding the workers who do the best job?
It is difficult to draw the lines, that’s why it has to be discretionary.
PS. PM-ed on different topic.
Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk
The nhs and any government department wont deal with the issue as its not their money and it is not a business that needs to control costs. My girlfriend works in a college and to deal constantly with people being off.
I thought “discretionary” sick pay had all but gone? As Albion says it is a huge minefield and leaves all sorts of claims open. Not least a “British” worker getting it and a “foreign” driver not would immediately be a tribunal for racism even if race was nothing to do with it.
The coats and fines for losing could easily put many firms out of business
[/quote]
Franglais.
I take your point that it is a minefield. This is when it becomes obvious I ain’t a politician: “I don’t know the answer to that one”.
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Franglais.
I take your point that it is a minefield. This is when it becomes obvious I ain’t a politician: “I don’t know the answer to that one”.
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[/quote]
Personally I think you would make a good politician and don’t worry about not knowing the answer, none of them do either!
kcrussell25:
Franglais.
I take your point that it is a minefield. This is when it becomes obvious I ain’t a politician: “I don’t know the answer to that one”.
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Personally I think you would make a good politician and don’t worry about not knowing the answer, none of them do either!
[/quote]
No need for insults!
Politician? Huummp!
Franglais:
kcrussell25:
Franglais.
I take your point that it is a minefield. This is when it becomes obvious I ain’t a politician: “I don’t know the answer to that one”.
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Personally I think you would make a good politician and don’t worry about not knowing the answer, none of them do either!
No need for insults!
Politician? Huummp!
[/quote]
My apologies! 
What a great thread this has turned out to be! Albion, I think you’re being wise staying away from the discretionary option, could be a real hornets nest, causing more damage than it’s worth. Much as I despise politicians this discussion highlights how difficult it is to manage the finances at government level on a fair and equitable basis. Comments have been made regarding people living beyond their means and I echo those sentiments entirely. However, when it comes to the roof over your head, the method of financing it is neither here nor there considering how poorly the housing system in this country works. At times of real crisis, people must have confidence that the basics of life will be provided. Perhaps all debt/mortgage/rent repayments could be suspended for a period until the crisis is over with legislation to bring this about. I’m not saying write it off but has to be repaid over time with no financial penalty attached.
As a society we really need to address personal finances at an early age. I believe we need to offer education on what is certainly one of the mosr important aspects of all our lives. I’m firmly of the belief that easy credit is at the heart of our modern day boom and bust economic cycles. Take a mortgage on by all means but think of it as your shelter from the weather and wild beasts rather than an investment , thanks Maggie, anything else should be cash only or for larger purchases a substantial deposit should be required. It’s how we used to work until government changed the rules, thank you again Maggie,
T & E:
Well said. A few issues caught my eye. We pretty much all have inflation as a bad thing, but home owners seem more than happy with raging inflation in house prices. That it’s balanced by their ability and indeed almost an obligation to release equity to help their kids buy homes is bizarre! Very confusing.
Doesn’t the high price of housing make for a less mobile work force? And wouldn’t better unemployment payments make for more mobile workers, better able to vote with their feet finding better employers? But competition seems only to aplly in certain circumstances. Some politicos want a work force constrained in their ability to freely choose employers.
Saying we are free to choose to move isn’t very honest when you’re only a couple of pay cheques from a repossession.
It is not only bad for individual workers it’s also bad for the country as a whole. Bad employers are not really competing with better ones if their disgruntled employees are not free to go without fear of debt.
I agree it’s unwise to live beyond our means, but the high proportion of housing costs taken from our pay leaves less scope for saving for that rainy day. Living beyond one’s means is never right, but just putting a roof over our family’s heads is getting close to it too often.
Edit.
Soap box vacated for next speaker.
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