Gogan:
I also resent your ‘top intelligent businessman’ remark, although it does show the level you want to drag the conversation down to, so I won’t engage you in a debate about the relative value and merit of knowing a little more about the world than the average thick trucker.
its called sarcastic humour , you seem to be having a go at Harry from a high horse of running a business previously and quoting facts and figures when the basis of the thread was how its common for people to blame low paid eastern europeans for all the ills in the world
ShropsBri:
Do you not think it’s the case that return loads and freight brokers are a big cause of the rates hitting the floor,I mean years ago was the price not set on a one way trip and you made a profit on that and if you managed a back load then that was the icing.It wasn’t a case of ripping people off it was business.These days it’s a case of if you cant get a back load then the job is unviable and the fault of this must lie in people originally doing just to cover the diesel costs and unwittingly driving rates down and virtually putting every load at a back load rate.
Ok, I see your position.
So now you have two options:
Sit tight and play to the new rules.
Ignore the new rules, then sit and cry how evil the Eastern Europeans are.
I give you an example from my work: I am in ÄŒeský TěšÃn in Czech Republic. I am empty and I got phone call from the office, that I have over 40 hours to go do Dusseldorf to get the back load for me. I am parked outside the big Czech spedition company, there is a big sign saying “return loads offered” and small vans are going in and out the place all the time. I propose to my office that we try to find the back load to Dusseldorf from there. The answer is “no, Czechs don’t pay us the rates we are happy”.
So instead of taking stuff on the rates they are unhappy, they would rather go empty.
Now: who is to blame that Eastern European who would not hesistate to take this load can offer lower price?
With regards to the east europs hasn’t it gone downhill since the relaxation of cabotage,you continent boys can give us the diesel prices and the difference that makes with the foreign wagons working all week over here and the advantage that brings in the running costs.I would be intrested to know how much the average wage is for eastern lads.
In my industry, small van driving, from what I can see on Polish equivalent of Trucknet you can easly cash in 4000 zł per month. This is about 240 pounds per week. For driving a truck, 6000 zł is nothing unusual. This is about 350 pounds per week. Usually you work 3 weeks away, one week home, so this actually means about the British wages for week WORKED.
Harry Monk:
But when you clicked “Submit”, before your message was posted, you would have been advised that I had made that post. Therefore you would have had the option not to post it.
Not necesarly, it takes some time to update everything afer you post, if we posted within few seconds from each other, we could cross our posts.
Anyway I addressed it in one of the posts made later.
Harry Monk:
It’s also worth making the point that eastern European firms which operate trucks permanently on third party work are breaking the law, since it is not possible to legally take a 45 hour rest period in a truck.
Let’s not forget the countless UK hauliers who pull the same trick harry, all in the name of fairness of course.
welshboyinspain:
its called sarcastic humour , you seem to be having a go at Harry from a high horse of running a business previously and quoting facts and figures when the basis of the thread was how its common for people to blame low paid eastern europeans for all the ills in the world
I’m not having a go, I simply disagree with his perspective and have given clear examples to justify what I am saying. When I asked Harry to justify his claims he couldn’t, as his figures simply can’t survive any sort of critique.
welshboyinspain:
I did see a post recently about poles going on strike because they are being undercut by romanians and bulgarians, as the saying goes “what goes around comes around” thats life in the modern europe and we have to put up with it, besides how boring would this site be if there was no moaning? the british are, after all, experts in it
Thats interesting, could you give me a link to this? I never heard about a Polish strike thing…
As for moaning, I am afraid that on this field you can also face a tough competition
Gogan:
Let’s not forget the countless UK hauliers who pull the same trick harry, all in the name of fairness of course.
welshboyinspain:
its called sarcastic humour , you seem to be having a go at Harry from a high horse of running a business previously and quoting facts and figures when the basis of the thread was how its common for people to blame low paid eastern europeans for all the ills in the world
I’m not having a go, I simply disagree with his perspective and have given clear examples to justify what I am saying. When I asked Harry to justify his claims he couldn’t, as his figures simply can’t survive any sort of critique.
OK then, so what’s your theory as to why an eastern European operator can take a load from the UK to Spain for little over half the price that a British firm could do it for?
The Eastern European operator has a lower cost base, or the Brit operator is expecting too high a rate. Without seeing real figures to compare I couldn’t comment any further.
ShropsBri:
With regards to the east europs hasn’t it gone downhill since the relaxation of cabotage,you continent boys can give us the diesel prices and the difference that makes with the foreign wagons working all week over here and the advantage that brings in the running costs.I would be intrested to know how much the average wage is for eastern lads.
the fridge companies based around murcia, alicante and valencia are paying 1200 euros a month to their romanian and bulgarian drivers (I applied last year and thats what they offered me )
the spanish drivers on fridges used to get nearly 3000 a month but no work for 1 or 2 months a year and when i first started with my boss 5 years ago 2800 was easily achievable with having 2 days off after every trip so you can see where there is a lot of savings to be had
orys:
So it seems to me that the Eastern Europeans are just a whipping boys for everything (while they are responsible only for part of this).
Unfortunatley they are Orys. I’d doubt they are actually responsible for any part of it (you seem to disagree?). As our retailers source more cheaper products from Eastern Europe there is naturally more vehicles from there bringing it here, that leaves an over supply of British trucks doing fewer journeys. Also the accession of EE workers to UK means tougher competition for the workers here.
Its out of your hands and mine but the accession of the Eastern States has not been good for UK workers. Its no ones fault, big businesses have strived for this to reach more markets. This is what the EU allows. Eventually we’ll all be on an even keel, not any time soon though. More states to come !!!
Read the English source, read the Polish source and can’t find anything about being undercut.
It says that they strike mainly due to poor work conditions and due to that they did not had a pay rise despite in other countries where ND has its depots there were a pay rises.
Read the English source, read the Polish source and can’t find anything about being undercut.
It says that they strike mainly due to poor work conditions and due to that they did not had a pay rise despite in other countries where ND has its depots there were a pay rises.
not having the ability to read polish orys I hope you’ll excuse me that I didn’t read the source, I was merely pointing out that poles are going on strike because of poor pay which is ironic seeing as the influx of east europeans has led to the situation in the first place.
i also noticed somebody mentioned a union? well what kind of union agrees that its members would work for considerably less than the people already doing the job? but thats what has happened to thousands of drivers in europe
welshboyinspain:
not having the ability to read polish orys I hope you’ll excuse me that I didn’t read the source, I was merely pointing out that poles are going on strike because of poor pay which is ironic seeing as the influx of east europeans has led to the situation in the first place.
Last time I checked there was no influx of Eastern Europeans to Poland, you know, and yet as we can see from the articles there are some companies which pay poorly. I would guess on that basis that then influx of Eastern Europeans is not the necessity for some companies to pay crap money to their drivers…
Btw: this is another good example: if the Western Companies would pay to their Eastern European drivers the wages which are considered decent on the west, maybe there would be no influx of their drivers to WE?
Mike-C:
Unfortunatley they are Orys. I’d doubt they are actually responsible for any part of it (you seem to disagree?).
I don’t blame them personally, altough there would be some small margin of idiots ready to work for pennies, but this is not nationality specific (on one ocasion when I was choosen of two during the interview, the other, Scottish, guy offered to work for 50 less than me per week…
As our retailers source more cheaper products from Eastern Europe there is naturally more vehicles from there bringing it here, that leaves an over supply of British trucks doing fewer journeys. Also the accession of EE workers to UK means tougher competition for the workers here.
This is off course true. But in the same time, as you noticed, there is more people to sell stuff to, both in EE and here.
Its out of your hands and mine but the accession of the Eastern States has not been good for UK workers. Its no ones fault, big businesses have strived for this to reach more markets. This is what the EU allows. Eventually we’ll all be on an even keel, not any time soon though. More states to come !!!
Well, I would not be worried about Croatia…
Sayint it, loosening of cabbotage rules was your own initiative and I think your politicians are stupid to do that… But who I am to teach them
orys:
Last time I checked there was no influx of Eastern Europeans to Poland, you know, and yet as we can see from the articles there are some companies which pay poorly. I would guess on that basis that then influx of Eastern Europeans is not the necessity for some companies to pay crap money to their drivers…
no orys, nobrot dressingtable have got a lot of romanian motors and drivers who work for less than the poles.
orys:
Btw: this is another good example: if the Western Companies would pay to their Eastern European drivers the wages which are considered decent on the west, maybe there would be no influx of their drivers to WE?
absolutely spot on orys, IF the western companies paid the Eastern europeans the same money but they don’t have too, as you’ve already pointed out a romanian will accept work for less money because to him it’s a ■■■■ sight more than he’d get staying in romania so the bosses are capitalising on that fact, if the eastern european drivers put their foot down and demanded equal pay they might not get the job in the first place
welshboyinspain:
no orys, nobrot dressingtable have got a lot of romanian motors and drivers who work for less than the poles.
But they don’t strike over that. They strike over that they don’t get a pay rise while other ND drivers from other countries do. And main concern is work condition (altough that somehow disapeared from the British version of the article).
welshboyinspain:
no orys, nobrot dressingtable have got a lot of romanian motors and drivers who work for less than the poles.
But they don’t strike over that. They strike over that they don’t get a pay rise while other ND drivers from other countries do. And main concern is work condition (altough that somehow disapeared from the British version of the article).
maybe thats because ND are treating them badly because they think they can get away with paying the poles less than the french drivers?
ShropsBri:
Do you not think it’s the case that return loads and freight brokers are a big cause of the rates hitting the floor,I mean years ago was the price not set on a one way trip and you made a profit on that and if you managed a back load then that was the icing.It wasn’t a case of ripping people off it was business.These days it’s a case of if you cant get a back load then the job is unviable and the fault of this must lie in people originally doing just to cover the diesel costs and unwittingly driving rates down and virtually putting every load at a back load rate.
That was all happening LONG before the eastern Europeans were on the scene. UK hauliers started that ball rolling, and the principle of supply and demand made it perpetual.
Indeed and this is what I was saying.
The fuel price differential is blown out of all proportion. The eastern europeans don’t have a secret stash of cheap diesel that only they have access to, they fill up from the same pumps as everyone else! There is nothing stopping UK hauliers from doing a quick euro job to brim the tanks with continental diesel before coming back and working all week, and indeed many hauliers do exactly that
Yes,the Brits engaged on continental work do but the differential comes into play when you have foreign(not just easterns) wagons dropping a load over here and working all week on the 3000 litres they have brought in.This is what is helping put domestic firms under the cosh.
There isn’t a secret stash of diesel no and if you tell me that foreign firms fill up their tanks over here then so be it and I would love to know how they do it.
I hope these posts don’t come across with bad feelings as it is only a discussion.
ShropsBri:
Do you not think it’s the case that return loads and freight brokers are a big cause of the rates hitting the floor,I mean years ago was the price not set on a one way trip and you made a profit on that and if you managed a back load then that was the icing.It wasn’t a case of ripping people off it was business.These days it’s a case of if you cant get a back load then the job is unviable and the fault of this must lie in people originally doing just to cover the diesel costs and unwittingly driving rates down and virtually putting every load at a back load rate.
Ok, I see your position.
So now you have two options:
Sit tight and play to the new rules.
Ignore the new rules, then sit and cry how evil the Eastern Europeans are.
I give you an example from my work: I am in ÄŒeský TěšÃn in Czech Republic. I am empty and I got phone call from the office, that I have over 40 hours to go do Dusseldorf to get the back load for me. I am parked outside the big Czech spedition company, there is a big sign saying “return loads offered” and small vans are going in and out the place all the time. I propose to my office that we try to find the back load to Dusseldorf from there. The answer is “no, Czechs don’t pay us the rates we are happy”.
So instead of taking stuff on the rates they are unhappy, they would rather go empty.
Now: who is to blame that Eastern European who would not hesistate to take this load can offer lower price?
With regards to the east europs hasn’t it gone downhill since the relaxation of cabotage,you continent boys can give us the diesel prices and the difference that makes with the foreign wagons working all week over here and the advantage that brings in the running costs.I would be intrested to know how much the average wage is for eastern lads.
In my industry, small van driving, from what I can see on Polish equivalent of Trucknet you can easly cash in 4000 zł per month. This is about 240 pounds per week. For driving a truck, 6000 zł is nothing unusual. This is about 350 pounds per week. Usually you work 3 weeks away, one week home, so this actually means about the British wages for week WORKED.
I have seen it written on here before that eastern european,if empty,will take the load regardless of rate because he’s empty and at least he’s earning something and you that you couldn’t understand why Brits wont.
It’s because of this attitude that contributes to pushing rates to the floor and ends up with firms making no profit and just doing it to cover the expenses for this month.
So that’s £1050 for the month if I read you correct and no pay for the week you don’t work.Do you think that’s acceptable Orys?
where do these trucks come from that bring 3000litres into the UK
you’ve been reading the daily mail too much and started believing the hype, belly tanks are illegal nowadays and i think the most a truck can carry is 1500? even so they’d use up some of that getting to the UK in the first place
, you seem to be having a go at Harry from a high horse of running a business previously and quoting facts and figures when the basis of the thread was how its common for people to blame low paid eastern europeans for all the ills in the world
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