I just popped onto this post:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=80778#p1090159
I can’t see many foreign recovery companies stealing jobs from them, yet the industry seem to have the same problems as general haulage…
So maybe the influx of the Eastern European hauliers is not the main (or at least only) factor of that the industry look as bad as it is?
( I am sure that carryfast and his brigade will put me straight soon, but I am just curious).
Eastern Europeans, and other nationalities, can buy a recovery truck and do jobs for £10 - £15 a time. That’s the situation round this area.
Coffeeholic:
Eastern Europeans, and other nationalities, can buy a recovery truck and do jobs for £10 - £15 a time. That’s the situation round this area.
So can do anyone else. This is not the situation that they do it with Eastern European trucks, using cheap fuel and paying Romanian driver pennies which are still a lot for him back home and this is often raised at this forum as a main factors why the Easter Europeans can allow themselves to cut the prices. If you do business from here, you have exactly the same costs as the locals.
But you can work for a lot less if you are living six to a room.
Is there not that a Company gets checked if they work too cheap,do ruin that business by not pricing profitable?
Then i could open two Companies. One to own it and the other to ruin the Rivalry
Harry Monk:
But you can work for a lot less if you are living six to a room.
I never met any Pole (in UK) who shares a room with other. But some of my British student friends do that… 
Obviously then, it’s not illegal for British people to do so if they please…
Anyway, this still not changing much - there is nothing nationality-related here so far, British people can do exactly the same.
orys:
If you do business from here, you have exactly the same costs as the locals.
Not necessarily if you don’t worry about things such as proper training and qualifications to do the job, proper insurances, maintenance, quality of the equipment and so on.
Coffeeholic:
orys:
If you do business from here, you have exactly the same costs as the locals.Not necessarily if you don’t worry about things such as proper training and qualifications to do the job, proper insurances, maintenance, quality of the equipment and so on.
…again, this apply to everyone, it’s not nationality specified. Unless you trying to tell me that all Britons are always trained to the highest standards?
It’s not really relevant to the UK haulage situation though. The influx of eastern Europeans is not the only factor which can cause rates and wages downward, merely one of them.
Harry Monk:
It’s not really relevant to the UK haulage situation though. The influx of eastern Europeans is not the only factor which can cause rates and wages downward, merely one of them.
My point exactly. Hope some of the others will read it
I think everyone knows that already Orys. For example, Kodak have gone bankrupt but I doubt that anyone would think that this was due to eastern European labour. However, it is a major factor in the decline of UK haulage, particularly in relation to international hauliers.
As an example, when I worked for Kepstowe Freight in 1994, they were charging £3500 for taking a full load to Moscow. Seventeen years later, a Polish or Lithuanian firm would do it for £2700.
Harry Monk:
As an example, when I worked for Kepstowe Freight in 1994, they were charging £3500 for taking a full load to Moscow. Seventeen years later, a Polish or Lithuanian firm would do it for £2700.
There is another way to look at that though Harry. Clearly the eastern europeans can make a profit at their price in 2012, when the costs are far greater than 17 years ago.
So the question is, how much were the hauliers of 17 years ago taking the ■■■■ with the rates and ripping off their customers? 
It’s just a perfect example of supply and demand… 
orys:
Coffeeholic:
orys:
If you do business from here, you have exactly the same costs as the locals.Not necessarily if you don’t worry about things such as proper training and qualifications to do the job, proper insurances, maintenance, quality of the equipment and so on.
…again, this apply to everyone, it’s not nationality specified. Unless you trying to tell me that all Britons are always trained to the highest standards?
Don’t read stuff that I am not writing. I never said it was nationality specific and I never said all Brits are highly trained.
Thankyou.
orys:
Harry Monk:
It’s not really relevant to the UK haulage situation though. The influx of eastern Europeans is not the only factor which can cause rates and wages downward, merely one of them.My point exactly. Hope some of the others will read it
The biggest enemy to UK haulage is, and always has been, UK drivers and UK haulage companies. Everything those from the East are accused of doing these days was practised and fine tuned by the Brits years ago. it’s just gone full circle and their own skills and talents are now being used for evil rather than good from their point of view.
Thankyou.
I don’t recall British drivers staying away from home for several months at a time though, or working for £25 a day.
Harry Monk:
I don’t recall British drivers staying away from home for several months at a time though, or working for £25 a day.
There is nothing stopping a Brit driver from staying away from home for months at a time, other than their own desire to be at home more often. I’m sure the eastern europeans would much rather be at home more often, but they understand the need to put food on the table and do whatever it takes to earn a living. Also, it is not the fault of the eastern Europeans that they can live comfortably on £25 a day, they don’t have much of an influence over the value of the pound.
Besides, you have recently been looking into putting a truck on the road, so you know as well as I do how much it costs to run a truck and what percentage of that cost represents drivers wages. So I ask again, how could the rates that were charged 17 years ago be justified given that we know how much less it cost to run a truck then, and knowing that the same run can still be done profitably today (at much greater cost) for a lower rate?
Harry Monk:
I think everyone knows that already Orys. For example, Kodak have gone bankrupt but I doubt that anyone would think that this was due to eastern European labour. However, it is a major factor in the decline of UK haulage, particularly in relation to international hauliers.
But look at this post, noone gave any other reason for the situation in recovery industry other than Eastern Europeans. I would really like if people were reasonable on that subject.
As an example, when I worked for Kepstowe Freight in 1994, they were charging £3500 for taking a full load to Moscow. Seventeen years later, a Polish or Lithuanian firm would do it for £2700.
And that despite that between years 1994 and 2004 there was no Eastern European problem in UK. As for the period 2004 - 2012, believe or not, Polish companies are also charging less now than they used to, so I would risk a guess that this is due to some other factors. Off course they still have a space to move - they can move west and do some money here, you, being one of the most expensive, don’t have that comfort and this is why it gets even tougher for you. But the problem lies deeper than just EE moving here.
Gogan: I work here in haulage for five years and I am still amazed on daily basis how much money is wasted due to wrong management, bad quality of the vehicle maintentance and worker’s attidute… I would risk the theory that if all that would be sorted, at the current economical situation British hauliers could easily compete with Polish hauliers and fight back the market (I dont’ know about Romanians and others though).
Coffee: I am sorry, but you we were talking about foreign people doing busines here. I told that they have the same costs as locals, and you said, in my understanding, that one does not have to keep up with the same costs if he don’t need to worry about being trained or insured properly. I understanded we still talking about Eastern Europeans doing business here. I would be thankful if you explained to me when I misunderstanded it, as I can’t see fault at my side… It might be something with me being non native English speaker, and I am always happy to learn.
The biggest enemy to UK haulage is, and always has been, UK drivers and UK haulage companies. Everything those from the East are accused of doing these days was practised and fine tuned by the Brits years ago. it’s just gone full circle and their own skills and talents are now being used for evil rather than good from their point of view.
I think you are right here. There was one company i worked for which was looked after the way I am familiar from Poland: well kept company owned trucks, boss having control about everyday issues, drivers that would never say “this is not my job” and sit back with their paper. This company is doing very well despite working on the very hard niche market…
Harry Monk:
I don’t recall British drivers staying away from home for several months at a time though, or working for £25 a day.
Yeah, they were doing Pakistan or Middle east in 5 days As for the pay - put it into context. Polish truckers used to earn more than University Proffessors 
Largely because of the difference in wages for both drivers and office staff, although operating centre costs will also be lower. And I don’t blame the drivers for doing it, blame the game and not the players is my thought on that one.
orys:
Harry Monk:
I don’t recall British drivers staying away from home for several months at a time though, or working for £25 a day.Yeah, they were doing Pakistan or Middle east in 5 days
But it was much less common for British drivers to do third country movements than it is for eastern Europeans nowadays, e.g a Lithuanian taking a load from the UK to Spain.
Lets all try to compete we will go and live in some warehouse in the truck,save on house rates ,water rates , heating ect ect, stick the young ones up the chimnys to earn a bit extra…why take wages just accept food vouchers…be funny this but thats what it comes down to.
Harry Monk:
Largely because of the difference in wages for both drivers and office staff, although operating centre costs will also be lower. And I don’t blame the drivers for doing it, blame the game and not the players is my thought on that one.
Believe or not, today you can make more driving truck for Polish company than for British…
And we often take into consideration alleged lower costs of making business in Poland, but there also many factors making it harder. For example taxes are higher (only vat is over 5% higher in Poland than in UK) and also many other costs like:
I know the guy who moved his courier business from Poland to UK because it’s cheaper and easier for him to run it from England.