So......Brexit

GasGas:
So we leave the EU without agreement, and revert to WTO rules.

What can go wrong?

Quite a lot actually

economist.com/britain/2017/ … fine-wrong

Reverting to “only” WTO rules as an option, implies that Britain is not actually a nation state, and never has been as yet.

We’ll write ourselves into the global economy on our own terms.
We can start by having a Brexiteer as PM who has the foreign connections that May clearly never had.

The only “template” deal that was worth looking at was “Canada+++” which has already been torpedoed by May’s deal today.

“No Deal” would basically mean that the EU trade goods have to tender to sell here, whilst we get to tender our own goods anywhere else we wish, no longer held back by EU regulation.

Examples:

Buying Oranges from Florida instead of Seville, because the EU have added a tariff that actually stitches up Spanish farmers rather than the UK who can just re-source oranges from wherever they come cheaper or at least tariff-free…

Selling banking services to the entire Americas and Far East nations, not to mention Middle East, now we have so many of them already living in this country. That we now fall outside the EU means we don’t have to obey their rules that basically don’t allow us to do jack without their express permission, commissions, and tariffs.

Transporting goods and services around Britain, currently done rather too much by foreign-plated vehicles that not only risk bringing criminal elements into the country more than UK drivers going out to the continent do - but also pay their truckers “below the UK minimum wage”, which would be illegal, if the EU actually bothered to enforce UK laws for our benefit. They don’t bother of course, because “Cheap Labour Continent-Wide” is all the EU and EU supporting globalists already running this country - are interested in.

All Brexit need be - is STOP paying endless third party middle-men commissions, tariffs, and fees to do absolutely nowt, except step on our feet, and play the “----Ist” card when we stand up and object, and the official “listener” happens to carry one or more “indictable labels”.

If we’d had a British version of Trump - Brexit would have happened over the weekend following the referendum.
We don’t though. The closest we DO have - is Boris Johnson, born American in NYC no less, and able to make a solid connection with at least Trump (for the time being) to help complete Brexit with the US special relationship (especially teaming up against France and Germany now) to help us all “get along” with a deal that cuts out the EU fledgling empire from sowing any more bureaucratic “Byzantine” mayhem around the world.

Bitcoin is on the ropes today, along with the pound as I write this… Funny that. You’d think Bitcoin would be tied to the Euro or USD rather than apparently follow the rises and falls of Sterling…

Oil, keeps trying to rally from it’s lows as well - but keeps falling back later.

There is a huge glut in the Strategic Petroleum Reserve in the USA right now. No basic upward pressure on prices at all.

This month’s inflation figure came in at 2.4%, unchanged from the previous month.
Wages are also rising, so we’re talking about REAL growth in positive numbers now then.

Next month, the sharp declines in the oil complex this past fortnight - should feed through into next month’s fresh inflation figures.

Essentially, we’ve reached the point where “The only thing to fear - is EU fear bullshine itself!”

May has around 24 hours to go down the “No Deal” brexit route at full speed now - OR step aside for someone that WILL.

If neither happens - then Corbyn will reach over, and proverbally cut all their throats, probably on live TV to boot.

Brexit supporters might as well vote UKIP now, as we’re past caring if “A vote for UKIP lets Corbyn win the next election”.

Ask me if I give a ■■■■…

Sooo it’s about Sisters,cutting the grass with transgenders, avoiding prostitutes with mortgages, hard dumping, power ■■■■■■■,sulking and letting strangers to have permanent access to your back door!! Why is it taking so long, they are overthinking it.

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I’m confused…are you saying the UK should leave the WTO too?

We’d struggle to do business with Iran, Algeria, Sudan, Belarus and Serbia as our major trading partners. Is that the kind of company you’d like the UK to keep?

Iran is the largest of those, and is the 27 largest economy in the world.

In contrast the WTO has 164 members: including all major economic powers, all EU nations, and the EU itself.

To wrongly paraphrase the American Colonel. “Mmmmm I love the smell of desperation in the morning”!

GasGas:
So we leave the EU without agreement, and revert to WTO rules.

What can go wrong?

Quite a lot actually

economist.com/britain/2017/ … fine-wrong

All based on the same old remainer lies that the EU can hit us with trade sanctions for the crime of secession but we can’t hit them back.Or silly unrealistic average export figures for the EU as a whole when Germany is obviously far more dependent on its UK exports than we are on our German exports in terms of relative values in which the German market is worth around 100% less to us than the UK market is to Germany.Or the most insulting lie of all that Brits are too stupid to make stuff in realigning our economy more in favour of domestic manufacturing at the expense of German manufacturing exporters.

NoClass:

xichrisxi:
To sum up for those that don’t understand…

Here we sit, broken hearted, told May to zb, she only ■■■■■■.

More like trusted a remainer to deliver Brexit and she predictably more than delivered for the remainers in not only keeping us tied to the EU but also removing UKIP MEP’s from the EU parliament.

the maoster:
To wrongly paraphrase the American Colonel. “Mmmmm I love the smell of desperation in the morning”!

But who has the victory here?

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Franglais:

the maoster:
To wrongly paraphrase the American Colonel. “Mmmmm I love the smell of desperation in the morning”!

But who has the victory here?

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No one…it’s not even a Zero-Sum Game. It’s just the UK cutting off its nose to spite its face.

The Brexit dream of having all the benefits of EU membership with none of the rules or responsibilities was never going to happen.

Not how Gove and BoJo looked and behaved the morning after they ‘won’.

Look at Raab…won’t even support the deal he negotiated.

Look at BoJo…made foreign secretary and didn’t bring back a single trade deal. Agreed to Chequers and then changed his mind.

Franglais:

the maoster:
To wrongly paraphrase the American Colonel. “Mmmmm I love the smell of desperation in the morning”!

But who has the victory here?

That was obvious from the point when it became clear that the remainers still had control of the agenda in the form of May and Hammond after the ‘referendum’ result.It’s probably just another nail in the EU breaking up along the lines of the former Yugoslavia in the long term.Possibly even to the point where those born now might see an EU war of Federal aggression v Secession in their lifetime.

Winseer:
No deal - has yet to be both on the table, and actually in a position to be implemented.

As a ■■■■■■■■ Brexiteer, I would have been happy with “no deal” at ANY point along the way, realizing that you cannot actually ever get permission to do a thing that the other side will not allow in a million years.

It’s like trying to negotiate with Hitler to “not bomb London” by offering payments FFS.

Has anyone heard of “Danegeld” around here?

The very concept should be a thousand years out-of-date in politics now. :unamused:

Today’s politics is more like “Poker” than “Fearmongering”.

If you don’t give a ■■■■ about the downside consequences of your move - then you stand a better chance of winning in any situation as a result, regardless of “what hand you hold.”

All we needed to do for Hard Brexit all along - was cease payments to Brussels. Forget about “laws being broken” - because the rest of the world will judge Britain rightly or wrongly for tearing up any and all EU treaties that held sway up to that point.
Germany considered it legal to invade Poland in 1939. Britian considered it not only illegal, but triggering a treaty between Poland and Britain at the time.
Britain chose to go to war over it, Hitler never declared war on Britain, contrary to popular belief.
Britain’s declaration of war against Germany was considered illegal by all those countries that chose to remain neutral in WWII, that could have come to our aid, but chose not to, unsure of the legal position in the bigger world picture. (Not including those nations like Spain that were unable to join the war, because there was already a civil war in play at the time…)

Back to this “draft deal”, already long described by Boris Johnson as being a “turd”…
What’s the £39billion for again?
Nothing at all. The EU have asked for it, nay demanded it - but we are under no legal obligation whatsoever to pay for it, or any other amount.
We ARE under legal obligation to keep on paying to Brussels - all the while we “remain” in the single market and customs union though, hence why we MUST ditch BOTH.

It’s like asking for a refund at the football match, before the game has started, but you are still occupying your bloody grandstand position at the ground!
Remove yourself from what you are paying for, put it “beyond reach to U-turn back again”, and then ask for a refund, because a proverbial season ticket at Norwich United happens to NOT be worth ten grand per season, and demand that refund accordingly… :stuck_out_tongue:

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The door is already open as a result of the referendum result.
Now it is time to “stop worrying about getting a detention” for escaping from Colditz FFS.

Getting out is FAR more important than “obeying any rules” not made by the UK in the first place. :bulb:

Is that you Jacob Rees-Mogg :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

GasGas:
The Brexit dream of having all the benefits of EU membership with none of the rules or responsibilities was never going to happen.

Not how Gove and BoJo looked and behaved the morning after they ‘won’.

Look at Raab…won’t even support the deal he negotiated.

Look at BoJo…made foreign secretary and didn’t bring back a single trade deal. Agreed to Chequers and then changed his mind.

The Brexit ‘dream’ was always a case of telling the EU no more blackmail of cash and sovereignty for trade.All totally deliverable given a government with the balls to go toe to toe with Germany’s trade surplus v our trade deficit and see who blinks first.

The remainers only answer to that being that the Brits supposedly ain’t bright enough to make anything for themselves.Thereby conveniently cancelling out our trade deficit position in which kicking the Germans out of our domestic market,being worth a lot more than the German market is to us,was always our ace card.

As for Raab and BoJo their loyalty is to their Party as Raab has clearly stated in his ‘resignation’ statement.It being clear that the deal which Raab,like Davis, was working on was that which remainer May ordered him to implement.Which is not even close to the one which was described within his local constituency Leave campaign literature and which could only ever have been delivered on the basis of a no deal Brexit bargaining position.Followed by an ultimatum to Merkel not Juncker that any resulting sanctions and ■■■ for tat EU trade war would be concentrated against German imports from our point of view.With Raab,BoJo and Davis all having joined and staying loyal to date to,a Party whose claim to fame is taking us into the EU under Heath,chucking out Powell,and signing us up to numerous ever tighter EU treaties followed by remainer Cameron’s non binding referendum stunt and now May’s Remain + deal in which not only are we still tied to the EU’s strings but now UKIP’s MEP’s get taken out.

So even those who said they wanted Brexit, didn’t…

It was all a sham to cover an internal play for power in the Tory party…as some realised all along.

GasGas:
So even those who said they wanted Brexit, didn’t…

It was all a sham to cover an internal play for power in the Tory party…as some realised all along.

Why are remainers so keen on dressing up Brexit as being all about the Conservative Party.When overall we know that the Cons took us into the EU and signed us up to the Single European Act and Maastricht.In addition to banishing Powell and now EU Federalists Cameron’s and May’s stunt.

So no Cameron’s non referendum stunt and May’s predictable resulting Remain + ‘deal’,was all a sham to destroy UKIP both domestically and more importantly within the EU parliament,which Farage took hook line and sinker,not a bs internal Conservative Party squabble.Hence Raab’s and Davis’ pretend ‘resignations’ from the non Brexit ministry,when it’s May who has been running the show from day 1 since Cmeron handed her the job and their’s and Mogg’s continuing loyalty to the Party and May.

I like to think I’m a fairly ‘normal’ person (normal being a relative term obviously) and have a fair grasp on what constitutes good, bad or indifferent in life but I can honestly say I’ve struggled with the whole ‘Brexit’ thing.
I consider myself to be unashamedly working class. I’m the son of a lorry driver and a domestic cleaner, I get up every morning put on my steel toe-cap boots and go to work. As a family we work hard, pay our taxes, abide by the law and in all honesty life is good. We are not poor but neither are we wealthy, We don’t receive any benefits, the state educated our children and looks after our health. In all honesty we have more than we need but, not necessarily all that we’d like.
I’ve never been unemployed but have been made redundant a couple of times. I don’t consider myself to be a coward but I am not a gambler or a risk taker per se.

My eldest daughter was old enough to vote in the referendum (her first ever ‘proper’ vote) and she was looking for reasons to vote one way or the other. She asked what’s the point of the EU? Good question, I thought, so we looked at our life to see where the EU impacts on it.
Looking around our house, the furniture, electricals, tech, white goods, etc, all conform to safety and environmental quality standards set by the EU, likewise so do the cars. The food in the cupboards also has to meet EU quality and safety standards with the meat products meeting the appropriate animal welfare standards. The photographs depict holidays where the EHIC was there to cover any medical emergencies and the left over Euros sit in the cupboard awaiting the next European jaunt, where ever that might be. The planes and ferries have all conformed to the required standards and regs and ‘free movement’ has enabled some very short notice trips (booked today, gone tomorrow). The quality of the sand and sea also coming under jurisdiction of the EU!!
At work, the equipment I use must conform to quality and safety standards and my working hours are controlled by EU legislation. Our healthcare needs have been met over the years by professionals in the NHS from all over the world.

So, when we were asked in 2016 to decide whether we wanted to leave or remain I took stock of my life and decided that the leap into the unknown (leave) was too risky for me and being happy with life the way it is, I voted the other way. I know not how my wife or daughter voted, it’s irrelevant and was a personal decision for them.

I do not consider myself a ‘remainer’ and I’m certainly not a ‘remoaner’. The vote was for ‘leave’ and ‘leave’ it must be.

What I don’t get is how we ended up in a situation where Brexit is being lead by someone who doesn’t really have the enthusiasm for it! What happened to the ‘leave’ flag bearers? This was their moment to shine. It was their opportunity to write history. It was what they wanted!! It was their opportunity lead us into the brave new world.

I wanted them to show me I was a fool for playing safe and being reticent.

I don’t want another vote, I want someone to make it work for me and my family, and for you and your families!!
Is that too much to ask?

Thought you may like to watch this…

youtu.be/OLUbL1PB4BU

the maoster:
Thought you may like to watch this…

youtu.be/OLUbL1PB4BU

A well produced, and cleverly scripted piece? Yes, `tis true. That is about all that is true though.

“The Devil has all the best tunes”.

A well laid out, balanced, argument aint nowhere near as funny as that is it. Sorry Cockerdog, unless you can make a funny video on YouTube you wont get far.

What I don’t get is how we ended up in a situation where Brexit is being lead by someone who doesn’t really have the enthusiasm for it! What happened to the ‘leave’ flag bearers? This was their moment to shine. It was their opportunity to write history. It was what they wanted!! It was their opportunity lead us into the brave new world.

I wanted them to show me I was a fool for playing safe and being reticent.

Absolutely agree, I think what they worried about is their political career, and they used this situation but they don’t want to get dirty. And I can’t understand all this talk about Johnson future PM, he had his moment, Cameron left, everyone expected him to become PM, but he just told that he is not good enough, wtf? Miserable…

Johnson had his chance as Foreign Sec to go out abroad and come back with a few of those ‘really good deals’ that the rest of the world was going to offer us. He didn’t.

May has gone abroad and come back with some new deals from Africa…we’ve had to promise a load more foreign aid in return, and they amount to a tiny percentage of the trade we enjoy with the EU.

Still, we did get to see her dance on the TV…and what a Brexit bonus that was!

Cockerdog:
I like to think I’m a fairly ‘normal’ person (normal being a relative term obviously) and have a fair grasp on what constitutes good, bad or indifferent in life but I can honestly say I’ve struggled with the whole ‘Brexit’ thing.
I consider myself to be unashamedly working class. I’m the son of a lorry driver and a domestic cleaner, I get up every morning put on my steel toe-cap boots and go to work. As a family we work hard, pay our taxes, abide by the law and in all honesty life is good. We are not poor but neither are we wealthy, We don’t receive any benefits, the state educated our children and looks after our health. In all honesty we have more than we need but, not necessarily all that we’d like.
I’ve never been unemployed but have been made redundant a couple of times. I don’t consider myself to be a coward but I am not a gambler or a risk taker per se.

My eldest daughter was old enough to vote in the referendum (her first ever ‘proper’ vote) and she was looking for reasons to vote one way or the other. She asked what’s the point of the EU? Good question, I thought, so we looked at our life to see where the EU impacts on it.
Looking around our house, the furniture, electricals, tech, white goods, etc, all conform to safety and environmental quality standards set by the EU, likewise so do the cars. The food in the cupboards also has to meet EU quality and safety standards with the meat products meeting the appropriate animal welfare standards. The photographs depict holidays where the EHIC was there to cover any medical emergencies and the left over Euros sit in the cupboard awaiting the next European jaunt, where ever that might be. The planes and ferries have all conformed to the required standards and regs and ‘free movement’ has enabled some very short notice trips (booked today, gone tomorrow). The quality of the sand and sea also coming under jurisdiction of the EU!!
At work, the equipment I use must conform to quality and safety standards and my working hours are controlled by EU legislation. Our healthcare needs have been met over the years by professionals in the NHS from all over the world.

So, when we were asked in 2016 to decide whether we wanted to leave or remain I took stock of my life and decided that the leap into the unknown (leave) was too risky for me and being happy with life the way it is, I voted the other way. I know not how my wife or daughter voted, it’s irrelevant and was a personal decision for them.

I do not consider myself a ‘remainer’ and I’m certainly not a ‘remoaner’. The vote was for ‘leave’ and ‘leave’ it must be.

What I don’t get is how we ended up in a situation where Brexit is being lead by someone who doesn’t really have the enthusiasm for it! What happened to the ‘leave’ flag bearers? This was their moment to shine. It was their opportunity to write history. It was what they wanted!! It was their opportunity lead us into the brave new world.

I wanted them to show me I was a fool for playing safe and being reticent.

I don’t want another vote, I want someone to make it work for me and my family, and for you and your families!!
Is that too much to ask?

All those safety standards and stuff…those are the ‘red tape’ that Brexit-backing ‘businessmen’ want us to get rid of.

Who needs safe electrical appliances when, free of the EU, we can import dangerous ones from China?

Ditto drugs, cars and anything else you can think of.

milesahead:

What I don’t get is how we ended up in a situation where Brexit is being lead by someone who doesn’t really have the enthusiasm for it! What happened to the ‘leave’ flag bearers? This was their moment to shine. It was their opportunity to write history. It was what they wanted!! It was their opportunity lead us into the brave new world.

I wanted them to show me I was a fool for playing safe and being reticent.

Absolutely agree, I think what they worried about is their political career, and they used this situation but they don’t want to get dirty. And I can’t understand all this talk about Johnson future PM, he had his moment, Cameron left, everyone expected him to become PM, but he just told that he is not good enough, wtf? Miserable…

Boris Johnsons grasp of facts and figures is somewhat lacking for a candidate for PM surely? Heres a programme from the BBC, an interview with Mr Johnson and a fact check of his statements. Good programme all the way through, but only the first 6 minutes contain Mr Johnson.