Carryfast:
Lenin and Marx didn’t come from council estates but I think David Davis did.
You THINK he did?
Whereas we know she did.
What has Marx and Lenin got to do with her lack of class?
To be fair David Davis said himself that he lived in a council estate.
While that type of outburst fits the far left MO and was often preceded by the words Borgeois and Decadent also optional to add even more weight.
While the leadership is obviously considered as being more equal than the proletariate ( useful idiots ) in that regard and therefore exempt from being labelled by such terminology and its own politics of envy.I guess that the Labour deputy leadership job is as well paid as a Tory’s salary.
Dimlaith:
If a Tory had said that about Labour there would be outrage. Labour will hopefully never be in a position of power. Except here in Wales unfortunately.
Yes I agree with you they have [zb] it right up in Wales, 40% of children living in poverty the worst health service in the country and now they want to put tolls on the M4 between J24 to J28.
The worst health service? You dont pay for your prescriptions, and you dont pay for parking at hospitals.
My mrs pays for parking at Grantham hospital now ( she’s nhs and works there ) , taken out of her wages , weekly , we get 2 passes , one for her car & one for mine
Daughter is a nurse at city hospital and can’t get a parking pass for that hospital so has to pay daily , though I think weekend parking is free
Parking was free when COVID was on but has stopped now a f a I k
dozy:
My mrs pays for parking at Grantham hospital now ( she’s nhs and works there ) , taken out of her wages , weekly , we get 2 passes , one for her car & one for mine
Daughter is a nurse at city hospital and can’t get a parking pass for that hospital so has to pay daily , though I think weekend parking is free
Parking was free when COVID was on but has stopped now a f a I k
Y
You dont pay in Wales. They had a token system in Singleton Hospital in Swansea, where you would get a token at reception, to exit the carpark for free, to stop people from parking in the hospital carpark a d catching a bus to town… not sure if they still bother with that.
Given todays events her comments are even more crass than at the time she said them with people like her in the Labour party they don’t deserve to hold power
Mazzer2:
Given todays events her comments are even more crass
10 days after the after the murder of Jo Cox, you have the mail printing this
One in 28 words Johnson used at the despatch box on 25 September (2019) were included on Harvard University’s list of semantically hostile words—those which “indicate an attitude or concern with hostility or aggressiveness.” Such words appeared roughly once every sentence and a half.
Boris Johnson tells friends of murdered MP Jo Cox to back Brexit if they want to stop getting death threats
Boris Johnson dismisses dangers of inflammatory language as ‘humbug’
mike68:
as for the austerity policies of the Conservative party these were a direct result of the previous Labour government [zb] up the economy
Looks to me like Labour had done a decent job of recovering from the GLOBAL crisis by the time of the May 2010 election, not looking so good after that though.
It’s a comment in very poor taste of course, but the same applies to both sides we need to wake up and smell that coffee before it goes stale. The extremes are taking control of our institutions and anyone that doesn’t want to accept that is probably already too far gone.
Labour are full blown SJW’s and the Conservatives are full blown authoritarians. At least the Conservatives have some semblance of defence for freedom of speech though… and in this current paradigm that’s all I could give a toss about to be honest with you.
flammen:
At least the Conservatives have some semblance of defence for freedom of speech though… and in this current paradigm that’s all I could give a toss about to be honest with you.
**!**Seen Patels proposals? [theconversation.com/priti-patel ... -uk-169386](https://theconversation.com/priti-patels-activist-travel-bans-are-another-blow-to-human-rights-in-the-uk-169386) [independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 21610.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/priti-patel-protest-law-ban-b1821610.html) And for any who think it doesnt matter if Patel shuts up her target groups, any new laws will be there for any future Gov who may want to shut up a different (your) point if view.
flammen:
At least the Conservatives have some semblance of defence for freedom of speech though… and in this current paradigm that’s all I could give a toss about to be honest with you.
**!**Seen Patels proposals? [theconversation.com/priti-patel ... -uk-169386](https://theconversation.com/priti-patels-activist-travel-bans-are-another-blow-to-human-rights-in-the-uk-169386) [independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 21610.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/priti-patel-protest-law-ban-b1821610.html) And for any who think it doesnt matter if Patel shuts up her target groups, any new laws will be there for any future Gov who may want to shut up a different (your) point if view.
Any new laws will be available for a future govt?
So… that’s enough of a reason to not pass these laws? Are you suggesting a future govt couldn’t enact similar laws?
flammen:
At least the Conservatives have some semblance of defence for freedom of speech though… and in this current paradigm that’s all I could give a toss about to be honest with you.
**!**Seen Patels proposals? [theconversation.com/priti-patel ... -uk-169386](https://theconversation.com/priti-patels-activist-travel-bans-are-another-blow-to-human-rights-in-the-uk-169386) [independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 21610.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/priti-patel-protest-law-ban-b1821610.html) And for any who think it doesnt matter if Patel shuts up her target groups, any new laws will be there for any future Gov who may want to shut up a different (your) point if view.
Any new laws will be available for a future govt?
So… that’s enough of a reason to not pass these laws? Are you suggesting a future govt couldn’t enact similar laws?
Did you think it through?
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
The post I was replying to said that the Tories were defenders of free speech. I am showing evidence that isn’t so.
.
Could any future majority gov pass similar laws? Yes.
And that would be an attack on free speech then as it is now.
.
Have you thought it through?
flammen:
At least the Conservatives have some semblance of defence for freedom of speech though… and in this current paradigm that’s all I could give a toss about to be honest with you.
**!**Seen Patels proposals? [theconversation.com/priti-patel ... -uk-169386](https://theconversation.com/priti-patels-activist-travel-bans-are-another-blow-to-human-rights-in-the-uk-169386) [independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 21610.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/priti-patel-protest-law-ban-b1821610.html) And for any who think it doesnt matter if Patel shuts up her target groups, any new laws will be there for any future Gov who may want to shut up a different (your) point if view.
Any new laws will be available for a future govt?
So… that’s enough of a reason to not pass these laws? Are you suggesting a future govt couldn’t enact similar laws?
Did you think it through?
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
The post I was replying to said that the Tories were defenders of free speech. I am showing evidence that isn’t so.
.
Could any future majority gov pass similar laws? Yes.
And that would be an attack on free speech then as it is now.
.
Have you thought it through?
Are you confusing free speech with freedom of expression which is what the law protects in principle.
As with any freedom it is subject to the bounds of the law.
flammen:
At least the Conservatives have some semblance of defence for freedom of speech though… and in this current paradigm that’s all I could give a toss about to be honest with you.
**!**Seen Patels proposals? [theconversation.com/priti-patel ... -uk-169386](https://theconversation.com/priti-patels-activist-travel-bans-are-another-blow-to-human-rights-in-the-uk-169386) [independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 21610.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/priti-patel-protest-law-ban-b1821610.html) And for any who think it doesnt matter if Patel shuts up her target groups, any new laws will be there for any future Gov who may want to shut up a different (your) point if view.
The problem is the authoritarian aspect of it they’ve become a monolith for battening down the hatches on everyone whether they like it or not under the guise of covid mitigation. Either way, I don’t like it. It stinks, but you’d be dead wrong if you think Labour wouldn’t do the same.
Labour would they will force you to ignore basic biology and constantly force people to cater to millennial hurty feelings? Labour would probably make it a criminal charge to insult somebody. And they’d do that in “peace time”. As bad as things are you’d have to be severely partisan to believe they’re a better alternative.
The reality is the best parties to serve the UK in the future are neither the Conservatives or Labour. They’re two parties that don’t yet, and probably never will exist.
Bring back old Labour any day… but those days are long gone and I feel like those who are old enough to know better only support Labour because they’re in denial that old Labour disintegrated ever since Blair got in and haven’t gotten wise to it.
Monkey241:
Are you confusing free speech with freedom of expression which is what the law protects in principle.
As with any freedom it is subject to the bounds of the law.
All freedoms have bounds in the real world, I agree.
Would you please care to expound on the relevant differences between “free speech” and “freedom of expression” as to my confusing them?
After all, speech is a form of expression isn`t it?
Monkey241:
It is a form of expression but not explicitly protected in law…
I can indeed express what I want but the speech aspect is indeed controlled .
It’s less what you say and more how you say it that is proscribed.
It’s a fundamental difference.
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
I don’t see that there is a difference at all.
If you were to write something on a wooden board and wave it around, you can’t define that exclusively as either freedom of expression or freedom of speech. They’re one and the same thing in this case and in basically any other case too.
It might be worded in the way you describe but that doesn’t mean it can be defined so, in effect it doesn’t matter.
I can express a view in such a fashion that whilst distasteful won’t get me locked up.
Or I can express it in a manner that will see me done under sect 5 Public Order Act.
Both will be the same idea expressed but the speech will be different.
Freedom of expression is protected, speech less so
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
I can express distaste with an idea. I can`t express a desire for violence against it.
The words used are not the issue. It is the idea behind them.
Using apparently “neutral” words whilst the meaning behind them is loaded with emotion, prejudice, and violent intention, is common enough.
With such words it is easy to interpret or mis-interpret them. That is their intention after all.
The Trump “insurrection speech” is just one. Some say it was an innocent speech, some say it was a call to insurrection*.
The actual words used are not as important as the meaning.
Insurrection is an illegal act. The words used are un-important if there is a call to an illegal act.
not sure if they still bother with that.