Saviem's fan club (Part 1)

[zb_anorak]

newmercman:
Not a fan of the snail myself, I’ve no problem with cheese though, unless it’s that plastic crap this lot over here insist on spreading over everything.

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Surely you can get proper cheese if you know where to go? What about bread? Is it like GB, where you have to cross the Channel to buy a decent loaf?

(I was going to craft an atrocious joke on the parallels between Prohibition and the difficulty in finding fine food, but I gave up, possibly to everyone’s benefit).

[newmercman]

Every once in a while the local store has a bit of Stilton in, they also stock Colliers Welsh Cheddar, which is reasonable, they have a decent selection to be fair, but as soon as you want to eat out, the problems start, they insist on covering everything with a layer of melted yellow cheesy flavoured plastic, they even have cheese in a squirty can ffs!

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[robert1952]

[zb]
anorak:

newmercman:
Not a fan of the snail myself, I’ve no problem with cheese though, unless it’s that plastic crap this lot over here insist on spreading over everything.

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

Surely you can get proper cheese if you know where to go? What about bread? Is it like GB, where you have to cross the Channel to buy a decent loaf?

(I was going to craft an atrocious joke on the parallels between Prohibition and the difficulty in finding fine food, but I gave up, possibly to everyone’s benefit).

Pun intended? Robert

[harry_gill]

harry_gill:

Lawrence Dunbar:
Harry Im quite partial to Escargots with a touch of Garlic, Then washed down with a Fine Chardonay, Have you ever tried them? Regards Larry.

Hiya,
Larry, I only ever having reached the rank of lorry driver never to achieve the adulation
of being a haulage contractor the best I’ve done with that sort of thing is plastic tray of
Tubby’s whelks bought down the Smoke at Gardeners Corner when held up due to a taxi
driver hooking his cab on an Atki front bumper I tried swilling them down with a can of
Cola but was still chewing the bloody things climbing up Archway, but I am as previously
stated partial to a few “willocks” and a can of lager on Whitley Bay Promenade.
thanks harry, long retired.

Hiya,
PS, if you don’t come from or live anywhere Tyneside (willocks) are indeed snails but from
the sea and for the uninitiated the real terminology is winkles but Kevmac and Larry both
knew that them being proper Geordies like lol
thanks harry, long retired.

[fergie47]

michel:
A Berliet TLM 10 with a tank semi-trailer in 1954 from Coing company.

That outfit looks so balanced, really good proportions…spot on…

[kevmac47]

harry_gill:

harry_gill:

Lawrence Dunbar:
Harry Im quite partial to Escargots with a touch of Garlic, Then washed down with a Fine Chardonay, Have you ever tried them? Regards Larry.

Hiya,
Larry, I only ever having reached the rank of lorry driver never to achieve the adulation
of being a haulage contractor the best I’ve done with that sort of thing is plastic tray of
Tubby’s whelks bought down the Smoke at Gardeners Corner when held up due to a taxi
driver hooking his cab on an Atki front bumper I tried swilling them down with a can of
Cola but was still chewing the bloody things climbing up Archway, but I am as previously
stated partial to a few “willocks” and a can of lager on Whitley Bay Promenade.
thanks harry, long retired.

Hiya,
PS, if you don’t come from or live anywhere Tyneside (willocks) are indeed snails but from
the sea and for the uninitiated the real terminology is winkles but Kevmac and Larry both
knew that them being proper Geordies like lol
thanks harry, long retired.

Yes “H”, winkles, mussels, whelks and snails, bloody horrible things. Makes my stomach heave just thinking about them, along with jellied eels and tripe .Regards Kev

[newmercman]

Tripe! That stuff is beyond vile, the smell of it makes me heave and I used to carry offal in tippers, I can tolerate fermented pig guts on a summer’s day. I like cockles, whelks and jellied eels though, I’ve never eaten a creature from the sea that I didn’t like, although I’m sure there’s something they eat in China that could turn my stomach, they eat some odd things that lot, they will eat anything with legs except the table and chairs!

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[harry_gill]

newmercman:
Tripe! That stuff is beyond vile, the smell of it makes me heave and I used to carry offal in tippers, I can tolerate fermented pig guts on a summer’s day. I like cockles, whelks and jellied eels though, I’ve never eaten a creature from the sea that I didn’t like, although I’m sure there’s something they eat in China that could turn my stomach, they eat some odd things that lot, they will eat anything with legs except the table and chairs!

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Hiya,
Now tripe I do try to get a nice plate of honeycomb tripe at least once a week,
every dimple filled to the brim with malt vinegar, salt and pepper egods it’s the
food of the Gods, I do have to travel a bit now to get my fill since the only shop
in Chester le Street were it was available has closed due to the owner having
retired, But in Darlington now that is a town were the food of the Gods is still
appreciated and available I nip down occasionally on the bus for a nice helping
or two to bring home, truly an aphrodisiac.
thanks harry, long retired.

[saviem]

Fergie47:
Lovely morning, breakfast with a view…just thought I’d share it…

Evening all,

Oh Fergie, of all the important bits of France that I miss…its those inward opening windows…and the views…

Perchance that grass is mowed with something more precise than a little Fergie, and a pasture topper?..I cannot get that finish with a flail mower, or a triple bladed finishing job, on a 540 rpm pto!..You have got a “posh” mower hidden away somewhere…

Breakfast…I`ve had a few surprises…

Second morning in my new “digs” in the hot and bustling city of Marseille…my kind, and so caring land lady served me a “true” English Breakfast…I should have known from the large soup dish…I stared down…to meet the unblinking gaze of a totally raw egg, residing, Amoeba like, astride two rashers of almost raw ham…she , (my new landlady), smiled at me…I thought of England…and tucked in…thank goodness there were two large Croissants to mask the flavoursome progress to my digestive system…

Then, years later, “a meet and greet Brunch”, held at a resteraunt named Cattlemans, in downtown Dallas Texas…So I could meet my new colleagues, and some of the clients of Mack Trucks Irving Boulevard operation…To say I was a tad nervous would be an understatement…how to dress…English three piece suit, (in 30 plus degrees), all my new colleagues seemed at least 7 ft tall…all in pointy toed boots, pin striped trousers, and crisp ironed white shirts…and hats so large…

Then came the food…about a gallon of Orange Juice…and then the cooked bit…what looked like the entire rear end of a Welsh Dexter, with eggs, like the headlights of an S 80 Foden…squash, Strawberries, waffles, (drenched in sweet tasting sump oil…was that really maple syrup)? something like a crucified Annabell potato… How on earth could I consume this vast quantity of food, speak, think, answer questions…(“say, how did you learn to speak such good English for a Frenchie”)…My first letter home, was a request to my wife to get me any little lapel badge that was a Union Jack…bless her she did…and from the day of its receipt, to the day I handed my documents back in Paris…I always wore it!

I never got used to the quantities of food in the US…or the drinks…and nmm I can remember the plastic rap around cheese…“with added cheese flavour”…avoided it at all costs…how I longed for a cup of tea…or even a normal sized sandwich!

Wonder if my tea is ready?

Cheerio for now.

[john_west]

Saudi was a curious environment. As truck drivers we saw the restaurants, like ‘The Mirrors’. Such a huge disappointment after all the build up - on the Tapline at the crossroads of the ancient camel and Haj trails from Kuwait to Riyadh. I had heard so much about it that I couldn’t believe what a dump it really was! Mirrors on all the walls… Yes, but never cleaned and the reflections had a sepia quality. This was where I saw an Arab take a toothpick form the container on the table, use it comprehensively…and return it to the container!

Still the chicken and rice (nus djaj wa ruz, minfudlak - one of my earliest learnt Arabic phrases) tasted good - as long as you had a cast iron stomach. John Longhorn’s brother in law (BAE Pilot I think) living on the BAE camp in Khobar, joined John for a trip to Riyadh. We had our usual breakfast at about 10 am at Hofuf corner, of lamb stew and pasta (we’d been up since 5.00, honest, it was good!) John dropped off the back and I met him on the way back. He was having to stop every 10 miles or so for brother in law to ‘get out and get under’.

Another curious culinary experience was to deliver to a Swiss camp, somewhere in the middle of nowhere in northern Saudi. I was with Ginger McNeill and he was rubbing his hands together. We were given rooms with air conditioning and lovely beds. ‘What do you reckon? Steak, chips? Got to be good!’

The first course was a sort of Muesli. Ginger and I didn’t take too much, saving ourselves for the main meal. The Swiss seemed to be tucking in. We realised why when there was no main course! That was it!

But total joy was to deliver to an American camp. A glutton’s paradise! Anything you wanted and as much as you could eat and drink (nothing alcoholic of course!)

In fact, they were obviously used to other nationality’s reaction to their way of doing things. There were signs up, which I’m sure weren’t necessary in the USA.

‘Please only put on your plate what you are sure you can eat - you are welcome to return for further helpings’

There were steaks and salads and potatoes and vegetables in quantities to defy greed. And then you could go back for pud!

I also have to say that American coffee could be drunk black from the urn without sugar and still taste delicious!

Thanks M. Saviem, you have reminded me of happy days!

John.

[saviem]

I have been just informed that the Pasta is not ready as yet…and if I’m hungry the wait will be worthwhile…

So Kevmac, a few words about that Simca-Unic- Marmon-Bocquet that you have photographed, and its 6999 bretheren…some even had mini Poclain excavators mounted on their little, but very able 4x4 backs…normally capable of carrying 12 men, plus driver, or 1500kg payload…and some were air portable as well.

That little lorry, with its side valve "Flat Head " Ford V8 petrol engine sitting under a neat Genéve metal cab, with a pure USA Marmon 4x4 drive system, 24 volt electrics by Paris-Rhone, and a cross country ability that even today would hold its own with a Mercedes Unimog!..really encapsulated the integration of the French lorry building industry.

Post WW2 the manufacturers were grouped into co-operatives to produce vehicles of certain weight catergories in order to streamline production for the National need, and to eliminate overlap of model types. Simca found themselves allied to Laffly, and Unic.

Ford of America had allowed a collaborative deal for production of its FlatHead V8 with Groupe Mathis, who traded as Matford, and produced a V8 powered motor car the Vedette, using the Ford serie 60 V8 239, or 255 cubic inch engine.

1954ish Ford/Matford merged with Simca, (and retained a 15 % equity share up until 1958.

1960 Simca was acquired by Chrysler, and Henri Pigozzi, (a close friend and family collaborator with the Agnelli family, owners of Fiat OM in Italy), became both head, and financial backer.

Unic, the third largest French lorry builder had come into the control of the Pigozzi family following the death in 1947 of Baron Henri de Rothschild, (go and have a look at the family pile gates in Waddesdon), followed by the death of Henri Dubois, which left Reni Copain holding the , (meagre) ■■■■■ strings…but he new Pogozzi well from the days of the GFA, (Unic-Simca-Laffly, grouping), and new he had the financial clout, (via the Agnelli`s), to take Unic forward, in a market where the newly formed Saviem, (Renault, Latil, Somua, and Berliet) were making the pace.

But the 1958 Ford, (Simca) Cargo began to sell well, as did the revised, (and truly so beautiful),and handsome Unic heavies…Unic Services began to distribute Italies OM lories into France as well.

1964 the first Simca-Unic-Marmon-Bocquet trucks were delivered to the French Military, and exceeded all expectations in terms of performance, (except in fuel economy)!

1966 Unic became a totally Fiat owned operation, (and the Vedette V8 car was produced by Chrysler in Brazil…with its Ford designed, Chrysler built engine)!

1973 production of Unic lorries was moved from Puteaux, (close to the original Saurer/Unic works at Suresnes), to Trappes, and market share was building but no one could anticipate the crisis ahead…

The SUMB 4x4 had reached the end of its military life, 1964/1974…several hundred had been re-powered with the 3.8 litre Turbo Renault engine from the TRM2000, complete with its 5 speed, hi/lo, transmission. This version was rated far higher in terms of ability/driveability, than the Saviem/Renault TP3 that followed on…

Saviem/Renault■■? …How so?

When the French Military began to seek a successor to the SUMB, they chose to only invite Berliet, and Saviem/ Renault to tender…This drove Agnelli into a fury, (and perhaps with great justification), for had not Fiat invested heavily in its French operation? Was not Fiat, (along with Volvo), a suitor to take over the largest, (but financially very poorly), French lorry manufacturer, Berliet…and was not Unic, both profitable, and number 3 in total market sales in France?

But the Tender went ahead, for a total 15000 units!..then to really push home the needle, it became public that the French Military did not wish “their 4 tonne payload lorries to be powered by Italian engines…even if the lorries were made in France!!!”

Couple that with the French Government driving a collaboration/merger between Saviem and Berliet, (despite the colossal cost, and confusion that followed, rather than let Agnelli`s Fiat become the owner of the bulk of French lorry building…Unic, and Berliet!..(Pray, take a minute to reflect on that political stance)…and contrast it with the ignominious disposal of Leyland to DAF, (when they could not make the General Motors Leyland Deal work), by our own elected Government!..shamefull is it not…Mr Channon what a clown indeed!

Iveco was formed in 1975…

Pre dating this was an exodus of staff, particularly engineers from both Trappes, and Bourbon Lancy, (the Unic engine plant), to Berliet in Venissieux, and Bourg en Bresse…as well as across the Alpes to Turin…now many had worked on the development of the Unic V8, and is it not odd, that in its final form, before it was killed off…its bore and stroke were identical to the “revised”…“rip snorting” Berliet version?

But of course the Fiat “Turin” V8 was based on a Saurer design…was it really…when 70% of the engineers on that project were ex Unic…Interesting to speculate eh?

1984, Unic were closed,…well the engine plant, and the spare parts facility remained at Bourbon Lancy…but Unic lorries were no more…Bourbon Lancy produced the middle, and heavy range engines for Fiat/Iveco…and great engines indeed they were…

So really the basic little SUMB was the death knell of France`s fine, ney, outstanding lorry manufacturer, Unic…1893-1984…not a bad innings…

And if any of you are tempted to buy a SUMB…go for one of the converted ones, that 3.8 litre turbo is a tractable gem…and a good SUMB really can do anything that your nerves will let you do in a Unimog…believe me…and at far less cost!

My Salmon, and Pasta, in a Basil and mushroom sauce awaits…I`m off

Cheerio for now.

[newmercman]

There are huge numbers of Italian engines in North America, all in agricultural equipment of some kind, my own knowledge of said equipment is minimal, it’s either a tractor or a combine harvester to me, I can put anything into one category or another, so it works for me.

There is quite the relationship between agricultural equipment and lorries, I imagine that the tractor (or combine harvester) manufacturers were trying to tempt the same engineers and designers as the lorry manufacturers. Was this the case?

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

[kevmac47]

Saviem:
I have been just informed that the Pasta is not ready as yet…and if I’m hungry the wait will be worthwhile…

So Kevmac, a few words about that Simca-Unic- Marmon-Bocquet that you have photographed, and its 6999 bretheren…some even had mini Poclain excavators mounted on their little, but very able 4x4 backs…normally capable of carrying 12 men, plus driver, or 1500kg payload…and some were air portable as well.

That little lorry, with its side valve "Flat Head " Ford V8 petrol engine sitting under a neat Genéve metal cab, with a pure USA Marmon 4x4 drive system, 24 volt electrics by Paris-Rhone, and a cross country ability that even today would hold its own with a Mercedes Unimog!..really encapsulated the integration of the French lorry building industry.

Post WW2 the manufacturers were grouped into co-operatives to produce vehicles of certain weight catergories in order to streamline production for the National need, and to eliminate overlap of model types. Simca found themselves allied to Laffly, and Unic.

Ford of America had allowed a collaborative deal for production of its FlatHead V8 with Groupe Mathis, who traded as Matford, and produced a V8 powered motor car the Vedette, using the Ford serie 60 V8 239, or 255 cubic inch engine.

1954ish Ford/Matford merged with Simca, (and retained a 15 % equity share up until 1958.

1960 Simca was acquired by Chrysler, and Henri Pigozzi, (a close friend and family collaborator with the Agnelli family, owners of Fiat OM in Italy), became both head, and financial backer.

Unic, the third largest French lorry builder had come into the control of the Pigozzi family following the death in 1947 of Baron Henri de Rothschild, (go and have a look at the family pile gates in Waddesdon), followed by the death of Henri Dubois, which left Reni Copain holding the , (meagre) ■■■■■ strings…but he new Pogozzi well from the days of the GFA, (Unic-Simca-Laffly, grouping), and new he had the financial clout, (via the Agnelli`s), to take Unic forward, in a market where the newly formed Saviem, (Renault, Latil, Somua, and Berliet) were making the pace.

But the 1958 Ford, (Simca) Cargo began to sell well, as did the revised, (and truly so beautiful),and handsome Unic heavies…Unic Services began to distribute Italies OM lories into France as well.

1964 the first Simca-Unic-Marmon-Bocquet trucks were delivered to the French Military, and exceeded all expectations in terms of performance, (except in fuel economy)!

1966 Unic became a totally Fiat owned operation, (and the Vedette V8 car was produced by Chrysler in Brazil…with its Ford designed, Chrysler built engine)!

1973 production of Unic lorries was moved from Puteaux, (close to the original Saurer/Unic works at Suresnes), to Trappes, and market share was building but no one could anticipate the crisis ahead…

The SUMB 4x4 had reached the end of its military life, 1964/1974…several hundred had been re-powered with the 3.8 litre Turbo Renault engine from the TRM2000, complete with its 5 speed, hi/lo, transmission. This version was rated far higher in terms of ability/driveability, than the Saviem/Renault TP3 that followed on…

Saviem/Renault■■? …How so?

When the French Military began to seek a successor to the SUMB, they chose to only invite Berliet, and Saviem/ Renault to tender…This drove Agnelli into a fury, (and perhaps with great justification), for had not Fiat invested heavily in its French operation? Was not Fiat, (along with Volvo), a suitor to take over the largest, (but financially very poorly), French lorry manufacturer, Berliet…and was not Unic, both profitable, and number 3 in total market sales in France?

But the Tender went ahead, for a total 15000 units!..then to really push home the needle, it became public that the French Military did not wish “their 4 tonne payload lorries to be powered by Italian engines…even if the lorries were made in France!!!”

Couple that with the French Government driving a collaboration/merger between Saviem and Berliet, (despite the colossal cost, and confusion that followed, rather than let Agnelli`s Fiat become the owner of the bulk of French lorry building…Unic, and Berliet!..(Pray, take a minute to reflect on that political stance)…and contrast it with the ignominious disposal of Leyland to DAF, (when they could not make the General Motors Leyland Deal work), by our own elected Government!..shamefull is it not…Mr Channon what a clown indeed!

Iveco was formed in 1975…

Pre dating this was an exodus of staff, particularly engineers from both Trappes, and Bourbon Lancy, (the Unic engine plant), to Berliet in Venissieux, and Bourg en Bresse…as well as across the Alpes to Turin…now many had worked on the development of the Unic V8, and is it not odd, that in its final form, before it was killed off…its bore and stroke were identical to the “revised”…“rip snorting” Berliet version?

But of course the Fiat “Turin” V8 was based on a Saurer design…was it really…when 70% of the engineers on that project were ex Unic…Interesting to speculate eh?

1984, Unic were closed,…well the engine plant, and the spare parts facility remained at Bourbon Lancy…but Unic lorries were no more…Bourbon Lancy produced the middle, and heavy range engines for Fiat/Iveco…and great engines indeed they were…

So really the basic little SUMB was the death knell of France`s fine, ney, outstanding lorry manufacturer, Unic…1893-1984…not a bad innings…

And if any of you are tempted to buy a SUMB…go for one of the converted ones, that 3.8 litre turbo is a tractable gem…and a good SUMB really can do anything that your nerves will let you do in a Unimog…believe me…and at far less cost!

My Salmon, and Pasta, in a Basil and mushroom sauce awaits…I`m off

Cheerio for now.

Thanks Saviem, it’s amazing how much info a picture can generate, as usual you did not disappoint!! Ps don’t forget the lend lease Mack. Regards Kev.

[michel]

To illustrate Saviem history about Unic and Simca, a 1955 picture.

[michel]

Bernis fleet of Bernard with “Carrosserie du Centre” cab :

[jsutherland]

Thanks Michel. Another great photo.

[fergie47]

Saviem:

Fergie47:
Lovely morning, breakfast with a view…just thought I’d share it…

Evening all,
Oh Fergie, of all the important bits of France that I miss…its those inward opening windows…and the views…
Perchance that grass is mowed with something more precise than a little Fergie, and a pasture topper?..I cannot get that finish with a flail mower, or a triple bladed finishing job, on a 540 rpm pto!..You have got a “posh” mower hidden away somewhere….
Cheerio for now.

Well spotted John…indeed, that lawn is not done by the Fergie, she and the topper are reserved for the paddock… For the lawns there is a 25
year old push mower, held together with old alloy number plates, Gaff tape, cable ties, and the odd bracket or two, an old driven mower with a B&S engine, and a Husqvana ride on…2.5 hrs to cut the lawns, and 2 for the paddock, however, not exactly hard work, and I enjoy it…the price of tranquillity.

Today its raining. Mrs F is off to the shops, I’ve finished my chores…so, while the boss is away !!! …

Some B/W heavy haulage. always goes down well, so here are a few…

[fergie47]

One of Saviems favourites, the Pacific…

[fergie47]

Some random pic’s…

[fergie47]

Nostalgic photo…I doubt the mountains changed much, just the wagons…