Saviem's fan club (Part 1)

Paul John:
Craig, that wing showing in the photo may be a Morris Oxford or Austin Cambridge, late 60’s.
Great photo’s.

Paul

Close, Peugeot 404 I’d guess, not up on classic cars but think they and the Oxford / Cambridge were both designed by Farina in Italy… so very similar, however, could be miles out…

newmercman:
Found this today, thought it may be of interest.

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Old circus living accommodation, don’t think it’s one of famous Pinders, will have a look through some pics and see if I can identify it…bet that looked the business when it was new…thanks for posting.

I love it, the way it all flows together is superb, form and function in perfect harmony.

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Could be based on a Citroën Type 55. I’ll try to get information…

Fergie47:

Paul John:
Craig, that wing showing in the photo may be a Morris Oxford or Austin Cambridge, late 60’s.
Great photo’s.

Paul

Close, Peugeot 404 I’d guess, not up on classic cars but think they and the Oxford / Cambridge were both designed by Farina in Italy… so very similar, however, could be miles out…

That was my thinking, but I’m no expert, if it’s not an older VW or a Zephyr/Zodiac I’m out of my depth pretty quickly

Craig

newmercman:
Found this today, thought it may be of interest.

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Very interesting. The cab looks like it could be by Hoogeveen of the Netherlands, makers of the cabs on Dutch-built Magirus’ and some Scania Vabis LV75s.


Question for our Magirus experts- did Hoogeveen supply the German factory, or were the home-built Maggies’ cabs based on the Dutch original design, using similar tools?

Edit- the cab on the circus tractor is almost identical to the right Magirus in the comparison photo which, I am assuming, is Ulm-built. The bumper and trim strips are the same. The Hoogeveen LVs had a different bumper. My best guess is that the cab is a german Magirus one. I am still intrigued by the question- how come the Ulm and Hoogeveen Magirus cabs are the same?

Re the car- if you look at the link I posted up the page, it shows plenty of 404s, of different vintages. The car is probably a 404.

Hi all.
Anorak, looking at your photo’s your’e probably right. I thought Craig was hinting it was a British motor.

Paul

Paul John:
Hi all.
Anorak, looking at your photo’s your’e probably right. I thought Craig was hinting it was a British motor.

Paul

Maybe because as stated above they were easily confused with the Oxford/Cambridge.

newmercman:
Found this today, thought it may be of interest.

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Evening all,

Craig111, thank you for those super images. Coz et Mahé, that makes me feel my age…I can remember them…as I can many “heavy” lunches with Guy Galopin…what he conceived with his conglomerate TFE, (Transports Frigorifiques Europeans), has come to pas with that old French Railway subsidiary S.T.E.F…Glad that they are a good employer…they had a good reputation back in my day!..But those early “Kangarou” trailers look so odd to us today, yet in their time they were ground breaking…even with a Scammell, (FAR) coupling!

Mark, you are bang on regarding the syemetry on those Assomption Circus “Director” Caravan outfits. They were created back in the period 1953/1957 by Carrosserie Assomption, to match the state of the art caravans that they produced. Many lasted well into the late 70s early 80s before they were superseded by more modern outfits with hydraulic pull outs etc.

Now that particular outfit is identified by its Citroen tractive unit as one owned by M Laboual a director of Cirque Pinder, and one of their fleet of Assomption outfits. That Citroen, (as correctly identified by Froggy 55, and Fergie)., was unique in that all of the other Pinder Assomptions had as their motive units Ford F98 WM V8 petrol, 8ft wb tractors, ex USA Surplus, but totally rebuilt by Assomption. There were others for other Cirque Operations, but on Labourier HARD chassis,( Cirque Jumbo), as well as Marmon, (Bouglione), and Delahaye 163 chassis, (Cirque Pinder). M Labboual`s “home” was distinguished by being built around a Citróen serie 60, rather than a 55…4 gears, 80 hp petrol, 8 ft wb, 55 kph top velocity…and armstrong steering!

Cirque Pinder had the largest fleet of Assomption`s, 8 in total, (their individual capital cost was in excess of a large executive type house of the period), and the appointments were superb…Over the swan neck, a childrens bedroom, then a fully equiped kitchen, then the living and dining room, followed by the bath room, and the appointments were , (of the period), state of the art), and finally the master bedroom. The stretched cab of the motive unit was to accomodate the additional family equipment, dog pens, access ladders, water containers, gas bottles, etc, etc.

On Marks image you can see the single right hand side access door behind the drivers cabin. Also you may note the most distinguishing feature of this particular caravan, the three window lights, and the remanents of the red painted roofs A longer tandem axle Assomption was the home of the Patron of Cirque Pinder, Charles Spissert.A really incredible looking machine. All interior cabinet work, and furnishings were hand made, and included intricate carving…these were very high quality outfits indeed. The single axle version weighed in at around 3.6 tonnes, and the ex US tractors had a combination weight of around 8.5 tonnes only. The modest top end velocity being no problem…other vehicles in the circus caravan would have been towing two or three trailers…including Lions, Tigers, Giraffes, plus the Big Top, heaters, seats, food, (human, and animal), plus the accomodation for the staff…and the publicity vehicles etc.

Cirque Jean Richards Patron, Alexis Gruss had a visually similar living van to the Assomption, but built by Beaune based Carroserie Cordier, Cirque Bougliones owner Joseph Bouglione`s family lived in another visually similar 7 window caravan, but created by Bourg based Di Rosa, who also bodied, perhaps not bodied, a more apt expression of their art is re-created the visual impact of his ex WW2 Marmon V8 Petrol motive unit.

The Circus was a major activity in France, pre, and post WW2, it even allied itself to the new media in the 60s with the Radio Circus, broadcast by Radio Luxenburg. The industry was like a moving sea, reforming itself all of the time…families allied, broke, reformed, and went on, when I was working there in the 70s Pinder was the King, but there was also The Radio Circus, Zavatta, Alexis Gruss, Cirque Jean Richard (and his love of the Oldsmobile V8 motor car), The Zoo Circus, (The charming Eduard Robba), Diana Moreno-Borman…(and they liked Saviems), Cirque Rancy, Cirque Medrano, (and their love of the fibreglass Rivastella caravans,the American Three Ring Circus, with their contemporary DAF2600s and the KW W 900s , (and their screaming Detroits)…The choice of equipment to move the shows around was bewildering, from ex WW2 surplus, GMCs Marmons, Fords, to fairly current DAFs, Saviems, Berliets, Unics,and the choice of "accomodation " was no less eclectic…

The workers bunked down in converted semi trailers…but well finished inside, individual sleeping pods, with an external 45 degree access ladder, that relied upon sobriety for a safe ascent! To the caravans of the stars, or directors, by Chereau, Di Rosa, Lebastard, (I hope my manipulation of their two word title defeats the auto sensor)!, and the créme de la créme Assomption. You of course will appreciate that there were seperate Kitchen trailers, and the food that these operations could produce would shame many a five star establishment!

Many of Assumptions workforce took their unique and special metal forming skills to Georges Pelpel at Rennes, and Lebastard at Rouen…and also to Chereau at Avranches…they were true craftsmen, and loved the creativity that their skills gave them.

Perhaps the most exotic fleet of accomodation was owned and operated by the Francki Brothers, who had a penchant for acquiring the most exotic bodied vehicles, many ex national companies who had commissioned exotic show caravans for the main sporting event of France , Le Tour de France. The impact of this event is beyond the understanding of most in Great Britain, we simply have never had such an event nationally. The vehicles that took part in the preceeding “caravan” to publicise the wares of the sponsor, vied witheach other to be more spectacular than the next…Bodies by Heulitz, Leffondré, Lebastard, (and this Rouen bodybuilder could, and did create the most incredible designs…many from the pencil of Phillipe Charbonneaux)…and Francki acquired many of them, including the outlandish Cinzano Heulitz bodies.

But as the market changed, and Circus families altered their operations to reflect this, then equipment was sold, and re-appeared in other lands, other Circuss. Because the Circus industry is truly International, borders mean little. Italys Circus Jumbo, (the Togni Family), acquired much of Cirque Pinders" Caravan"…the Lion Car, The Mermaid Siren…on its cronky Labourier diesel chassis!..Incredible to percieve, but must have been a nightmare to drive!..Darix, and Mavio Togni had a good eye for business opportunities…(and their brother could pop one of our TR 356s up on two wheels with great ease…anywhere, anytime…beat the Battaille family hands down…and he really could…and Ive seen him do it in a normal street in southern Italy without any problem whatsoever!!!..But it took a bit of explaining…and “hospitality” afterwards…to calm the waters!!!

Oh and they had an Assomption caravan as well!

I suppose the Assomption, is a bit like the US Airstream…it has real class, and is an icon of its time…but only with its matching motive unit…whatever that may be!

Cheerio for now.

I thought Airstream at first, in principle at least, it also has hints of those old beer trucks some of the US breweries used to have, a post Art Deco design of sorts.

Whatever, it’s magnifique, I knew you would fill in the gaps John, but you’ve surpassed yourself in your response to this, it’s no wonder you left the Black Country for pastures new, as wonderful as the engineering of the area was, aesthetics were not a priority, a man as passionate as you must have been a lost soul around those parts.

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I agree with newmercman, a fabulous post. What a memory for details you have!!! Thanks again. Johnny

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That has to go down as one of the best reports on the French circus industry you’re ever likely to find…

Thanks for your time John, as we all appreciate how busy you are this time of year…

I’ve got some more circus photos that I’ve been sent, as soon as I get five minutes I’ll post them up…

Well Lads … I had a great day at the Classic car day lots of old British marks …my pick of the day was the 62 Cresta complete with tax disc from 62 (stamped Luton !!) but others came close …alas not a great French turnout only a lonely old Citroen perhaps another show elsewhere ■■? being the reason !!
Aw well perhaps another time I will however keep a sharp eye open for any unusual french marks here down under all be it little vehicles although there may be a few heavies but they are thin on the ground

time to throw a SHRIMP ON THE BARBIE ■■?

That Traction Avant looks to me to be right hand drive , if so it was built in Slough.

backsplice:
Well Lads … I had a great day at the Classic car day lots of old British marks …my pick of the day was the 62 Cresta

It’s sad that Vauxhall and Ford UK’s American parents didn’t make use of their designed in ability to accept decent US V8 power instead of compromised 6 cylinders.

youtube.com/watch?v=wVKglJBn7wI

On the discussion of specialist body builders, here is a mix

A few circus wagons…

big-48660057d2.jpg

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Fantastic pictures Fergie. Thanks.

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It sometimes feels as if my lorry is a circus wagon.

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newmercman:
It sometimes feels as if my lorry is a circus wagon.

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In what way?

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A very entertaining and informative page all round - thanks chaps! I hope that Pernod Fils trailer had air-con with all that glass. Cheers, Robert