Salisbury alleged Russian connection [Merged]

Rjan:

Carryfast:
Which leaves the question of it all being part of a bigger EU conspiracy.

I don’t believe it is an EU conspiracy, but I think you’re right that it will be exploited as such.

The truth is that the conspirators are in the British Parliament, not elsewhere. They will exploit anything to cling to power and the status quo.

As usual you’re avin a larf. :unamused:

Oh wait isn’t the uk ‘parliament’ mostly made up of remainers including May and Hammond and I wouldn’t trust Bo Jo as far as I could throw the zb either in that regard.

theguardian.com/world/2018/m … n-minister

independent.co.uk/news/uk/po … 54146.html

As for that Lithuanian zb no we’re weak having been bled dry by decades of EU membership so no money for defence spending and the Americans having lost their bottle for defence policy based on mutually assured destruction and our so called independent nuclear deterrent being anything but.

While it’s clear that inviting in what we know are opposing Russian factions is all about providing a pre text for dodgy false flag operations.To pander to East Euro insecurities and historic animosities to the point where we’re being gradually softened up for operation Barbarossa 2 in Ukraine.When we should be telling our government to zb off we don’t want to die for EU Fourth Reich adventurism and expansionism in the East nor do we want internal Russian power struggles brought within our borders.

There are a lot of other things this could all be, and the notion that a “complete investigation establishing without doubt that Russia is to blame” all done in the space of 72 hours - is clearly treating the thinking public with utter contempt.

Basically, it looks like Theresa May’s government is having a “Dodgy Dossier” moment, and expects both Cross-Party Westminster and the general public to ■■■■ up all and any bull they might like to make up to get us to fall in with their new “Let’s hate Putin” policy.

Putin is up for re-election in the next few days, and like it or not - he’s popular in his own country. Attempting to sour international relations hoping that his party “remove him” - ain’t gonna work of course.

Meanwhile, the ongoing damage from such soured relationships might be biting off more than we can chew. Theresa May threatens Cyber War against Russia? FFS This beggars belief! Has she taken total leave of her senses?

For all we know, after our initial opening salvo of “Fake News” hurled at the Kremlin - the Russian retaliation might be nothing short of emptying everyone’s bank account in this country with a balance of over six figures… Or acvtivating a previously dormant virus on everyone’s internet-connected device… Or Posting some clandestine pictures of random public figures in compromising situations, all taken through their TVs, Tablets, Iphones, etc. … Or persons other than “Russian Traitors” get bumped off in the near future…

THIS all could well come to pass, regardless of Putin being guilty as charged as well as innocent of course! I just can’t see the wisdom in picking a fight we cannot possibly win. Divided Britain vs a United Front in Russia. The so-called “Opposition” in Russia are following that by-now familiar old line “Anyone but Putin”. They don’t have any policies of their own, just getting rid of Putin. That the west appears to be interfering in the forthoming Russian elections should and could have been done openly, if the West really felt that Putin’s Russia had interefered in Western ballots, including the barmy notions that Trump’s election and Brexit were “The work of Putin’s Useful Idiots” of course. I’ve been under a lot of pressure in the last few weeks, apparently so convicing I am that “I’m some kind of paid Russian stooge”! :unamused:

Anyone can stand for election in Russia, and you only get picked up by the Politzya if you’re merely trying to bring down the establishment, and destroy order rather than actually campaign on different policies as a proper opposition should. I’m sure if a Newspaper in this country were to print a story about half the cabinet ministers being kiddie fiddlers, and taking bribes off foreign agents - then the Home Office would send some Roughs around to put some pressure on everyone involved to cease and desist.

We can’t even blame the Far Right of anything this time around, as they’ve already been locked up. Shame they couldn’t lock up Antifa people at the same time huh?

All this Russian stuff weakens Brexit as well of course. NATO and the EU can now argue. "Hey, let’s put on a united front vs our enemies we need not even have, that are capable of blowing up half the planet, whilst going easy, giving out benefits, jobs, and forgiveness to actual people blowing us up in the meantime"

… Presumably, we’re supposed to now want to “drop Brexit, raise taxes, and beef up NATO using British Money and British Forces Personnel” to do any dying that needs to be done in such a futile war, whilst turning our back on forces that are supposed to be on our side elsewhere - being attacked now by fellow members of NATO? FFS You can’t make this crap up! :imp:

NATO are very happy right now. The EU as well. The actual nation states of Europe, the actual people of Europe? - Nahh. They don’t matter. They can just do some dying over our own WMD bull that we’ve decided should well and truly take the heat off Islamic State, whom we’re secretly in league with - forever. :angry: :angry:

I would hope that there is more chance of a European-wide uprising of people against both NATO’s warmongering, the EU’s, Kievs, and Ankara’s Borgia-like shenanigans, of which (IMO) this latest so-called “Nerve Agent Attack” is but the latest piece of drivel we’re supposed to swallow whole without even reading the label first. Oh I forget. This Novichok stuff is supposed to be 4 times as deadly as VX, for which a “fatal dose” is a smear… So who’s died so far? Why such outrage if no one is dead yet? How come more than the “Target” got hit, without any wider members of the public being actually attacked? Why were M15 not looking after their “Nark” a bit better, who apparently was living in a bog-standard property, not even under an alias, and therefore clearly not on some kind of witness protection programme?

…Then finally, there is this little niggling suspicion that there might have been a theft at the nearby Porton Down labs, and this entire “Cover Story” has been thrown down to snuff-out the otherwise scandalous addmission that would have to be made that “Not only do we harbour substances banned under the Chemical Weapons treaty, but we’re actually doing experiements beyond that as well?” It’s like the old question "Why do scientists keep an active culture of Smallpox - when the disease has been otherwise eradicated from the Earth?. Answer. It can only be as a “fall back position” for harbouing otherwise banned Chemical, Nerve, and Biological agents.

Then through all this… Corbyn stands up and says “Erm. Just a moment. I’d like to ask some awkward questions of my own” - only to be shouted down by his own party.

Now I don’t vote Labour, have no intention of voting for Corbyn thus far - but even I have to admit that I reckon he’s bloody well RIGHT to be asking such questions right now - simply because no one else apparently has the bottle to!!! This “Agent” could even be much worse or of a completely different nature than we’re led to believe.


Pray that none of THAT ^^^^ muck ever gets out into the public!

Yours, ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■

Your Conspiracy Theorist-in-Chief,
Winseer

.

Winseer:
0
Pray that none of THAT ^^^^ muck ever gets out into the public!

Yours, ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■

Your Conspiracy Theorist-in-Chief,
Winseer

Anybody else see this picture and get instantly reminded of the film ‘Boxing Helena’.

No just me then, I have some serious issues…

the maoster:
.

The real question is if they knew that they are Russian hostiles then why did they invite them in together with the Russian ‘opposition’.Oh wait if we can kick off an internal Russian gang war on our own turf embellished with a few false flag ops,that provides May and Bo Jo with the perfect excuse to join our EU and US ‘allies’ in the eventual operation Barbarossa 2 in Ukraine and Syria.With America safe in the knowledge that when it all inevitably goes ■■■■ up Euroland will be a smoking pile of rubble without the US being taken out. :unamused:

Dipper_Dave:

Winseer:
0
Pray that none of THAT ^^^^ muck ever gets out into the public!

Yours, ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■

Your Conspiracy Theorist-in-Chief,
Winseer

Anybody else see this picture and get instantly reminded of the film ‘Boxing Helena’.

No just me then, I have some serious issues…

Never seen that film. But, having Googled it, I can see what you mean I s`pose.
I found “Crash” a bit challenging. Would this fall in the same way?

manalishi:
Any thoughts on this.Seems rather convenient to blame Russia,a bit staged,theyre looking to kick off ww3 I realise but this seems a little too simplistic…a black op perchance?

Why ignore the obvious?
Princess Diana died in a car crash.
The USA did land on the Moon.
Crop circles are made by pranksters.
Russia did invade the Crimea.
And look at the last one! The MO of indignation, false rumours, silly suggestions and bare faced denials of self evident truth is being repeated.
Russia has a motive: to kill a “traitor”. Saying its a waste of time as its too late, is similar to saying to a criminal "Hide for ten years and well let you off". Punishment to transgressers is a deterrent to others as well as revenge. Russia has the means and the opportunity. Russia has a leader who has no shortage of ego. Hes been in power for 18years now. Like many leaders he has very few around him to challenge his decisions. (read David Owen*)
The method used is Putins "comedy wink" to all. Of course its him.

*“In Sickness and in Power” and “The Hubris Syndrome”.

Franglais:

manalishi:
Any thoughts on this.Seems rather convenient to blame Russia,a bit staged,theyre looking to kick off ww3 I realise but this seems a little too simplistic…a black op perchance?

Why ignore the obvious?
Princess Diana died in a car crash.
The USA did land on the Moon.
Crop circles are made by pranksters.
Russia did invade the Crimea.
And look at the last one! The MO of indignation, false rumours, silly suggestions and bare faced denials of self evident truth is being repeated.
Russia has a motive: to kill a “traitor”. Saying its a waste of time as its too late, is similar to saying to a criminal "Hide for ten years and well let you off". Punishment to transgressers is a deterrent to others as well as revenge. Russia has the means and the opportunity. Russia has a leader who has no shortage of ego. Hes been in power for 18years now. Like many leaders he has very few around him to challenge his decisions. (read David Owen*)
The method used is Putins "comedy wink" to all. Of course its him.

*“In Sickness and in Power” and “The Hubris Syndrome”.

So in short, your basic position is you pretty much unquestioningly believe everything in the news?

Own Account Driver:
So in short, your basic position is you pretty much unquestioningly believe everything in the news?

That`s a bit of a leap ! :smiley:

No, I wouldnt say that. But, I certainly dont assume that EVERYTHING is a conspiracy.
Seems to me there`s more to the “■■■■-up” theory of history than the “conspiracy” theory of everything.

Franglais:

Own Account Driver:
So in short, your basic position is you pretty much unquestioningly believe everything in the news?

That`s a bit of a leap ! :smiley:

No, I wouldnt say that. But, I certainly dont assume that EVERYTHING is a conspiracy.
Seems to me there`s more to the “■■■■-up” theory of history than the “conspiracy” theory of everything.

It’s nothing to do with conspiracy it’s a choice of which scenario is the most believable and who gains from the result.In this case it’s more believable that May and her Blairite remainer allies have gone for another false flag op.You know just like the Iraqi WMD’s one.This time with the obvious aim of making the case for remain not to mention reinforcing stupid post Cold War ‘defence’ policy.Which is now based on a two faced sham of detente and eastward aggression rather than open and honest deterrent and diplomacy.

As for ■■■■ up rather than conspiracy.Leave it out.We’ve been here before when Churchill and his Frog allies were definite enough about their wish for an unnecessary fight with Germany.Brit diplomacy having stopped the Germans and turned them around.So what did the Frogs and that warmongering zb do next.Oh wait let’s go with the Russians leaving the Krauts with no other choice than to defend themselves against the French/Russian alliance and Churchill being stupid enough to go along with it rather than declare neutrality.The rest is history.■■■■ up bs.:imp:

My grasp of history may be a little shaky, but I really don`t recognise this bit:

Carryfast:
when Churchill and his Frog allies were definite enough about their wish for an unnecessary fight with Germany.Brit diplomacy having stopped the Germans and turned them around.So what did the Frogs and that warmongering zb do next.Oh wait let’s go with the Russians leaving the Krauts with no other choice than to defend themselves against the French/Russian alliance and Churchill being stupid enough to go along with it rather than declare neutrality.

I always thought that the UK and France were at war with Germany whilst the Molotov/Ribbentrop pact was still in force?
Hitler only invaded USSR “territory” in 1941 in Operation Barbarossa.
Churchill became P.M. in 1940 after war was declared in 1939 by the Chamberlain Gov.
Neutrality? After the fall of France, Belgium and Holland how long would that have been respected?
Without a Western Front, Op. Barbarossa could well have succeeded. If so then we`d all be talking German by now.

Carryfast:
choice of which scenario is the most believable and who gains from the result

Well, I find it quite credible that a virtual dictator who has no fear of western european justice, who was a colonel in the KGB, who has access to toxic nerve poisons and operatives willing to use them, will put out a clear message of what happens to those who cross him. In the Russian election week any message about how strong he is, and how all the world is anti-Russian will find a ready audience at home for him.
The scenario of the May Gov resorting to these methods to divert attention from Brexit problems? No, I don`t find that credible.

I do see that Mrs May is involved in hushing up some things though. Non disclosure agreements…
news.sky.com/story/brexit-gover … s-11290344
What`s it about?
dailymail.co.uk/news/article … -long.html
or The Guardian?
theguardian.com/politics/20 … der-pledge

Put it all together and we have a Gov that knows it will have uncontrolable queues leading into Dover.
It will avoid delays to trucks leaving Dover by doing away with all checks, so a smugglers, immigrants and bent runners paradise.
And it`s imposing NDAs to try and hush up the FUBAR that is quite likely about to happen and stop any informed debate about it.

Franglais:
My grasp of history may be a little shaky, but I really don`t recognise this bit:

Carryfast:
when Churchill and his Frog allies were definite enough about their wish for an unnecessary fight with Germany.Brit diplomacy having stopped the Germans and turned them around.So what did the Frogs and that warmongering zb do next.Oh wait let’s go with the Russians leaving the Krauts with no other choice than to defend themselves against the French/Russian alliance and Churchill being stupid enough to go along with it rather than declare neutrality.

I always thought that the UK and France were at war with Germany whilst the Molotov/Ribbentrop pact was still in force?
Hitler only invaded USSR “territory” in 1941 in Operation Barbarossa.
Churchill became P.M. in 1940 after war was declared in 1939 by the Chamberlain Gov.
Neutrality? After the fall of France, Belgium and Holland how long would that have been respected?
Without a Western Front, Op. Barbarossa could well have succeeded. If so then we`d all be talking German by now.

Carryfast:
choice of which scenario is the most believable and who gains from the result

Well, I find it quite credible that a virtual dictator who has no fear of western european justice, who was a colonel in the KGB, who has access to toxic nerve poisons and operatives willing to use them, will put out a clear message of what happens to those who cross him. In the Russian election week any message about how strong he is, and how all the world is anti-Russian will find a ready audience at home for him.
The scenario of the May Gov resorting to these methods to divert attention from Brexit problems? No, I don`t find that credible.

It’s obvious that I was referring to the events of 1914 not 1939 and without which there would never have been a 1939.

As for Putin.What could have been clearer in this case than him ordering a hit by a professional assassin with diplomatic immunity and then telling May if she doesn’t like it tough unless she’s up for full on nuclear war,which the cowards in the EU and NATO obviously aren’t.Bearing in mind that’s ultimately where it’s predictably all ended up so far anyway.No point whatsoever in Putin going to all the trouble of a so called ‘chemical weapons’ attack as part of that.

As for ‘western justice’ yes Putin knows all about that.With Russia having moved out of its buffers in good faith and in the interests of detente.Not for the zb EU ( 4th Reich ) to then move its forces in up to Russia’s borders when Russia moved out.Let alone the EU then trying to move into Ukraine and also telling him that Crimea isn’t Russia.

As for May not just a diversion from Brexit.But a false flag op based on the motive of remainers ongoing project fear.Along the lines oh look we must remain with the EU and join the German led EU Federal Army to stop us being subjected to Russia’s chemical WMD’s.Supposedly delivered by Russian ‘terrorists’ who she’s invited into the country to the point of them funding her stinking Party.As I said it’s got her remainer crony Blair’s grubby prints and MO all over it.

Franglais:

manalishi:
Any thoughts on this.Seems rather convenient to blame Russia,a bit staged,theyre looking to kick off ww3 I realise but this seems a little too simplistic…a black op perchance?

Why ignore the obvious?
Princess Diana died in a car crash.
The USA did land on the Moon.
Crop circles are made by pranksters.
Russia did invade the Crimea.

You forgot these other truths promoted by Governments and widely reported by the mainstream media, that aren’t believed by the conspiracy theorists either.

Weapons of Mass Destruction really existed in Iraq.
Sadam can launch a Missile attack on the UK in 45 minutes.
Trickle down Economics will make us all richer.
The WTO is there to enforce rules on fair trade.
The IMF will help stabilise economies and reduce poverty.

Judging by the cynical reaction of most of the people I know to the announcement that this attack was carried out under the orders of Putin, I think our leaders and media have cried wolf one to many times for anything they say to be taken at face value.

Carryfast:
It’s obvious that I was referring to the events of 1914 not 1939 and without which there would never have been a 1939.

It was far from obvious that you were referring to Tsarist Russia!

Sorry CF, but along with Rjan, I didn’t see it as “clearly” that you were talking about that bit of history.

Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk

Winseer:
Now I don’t vote Labour, have no intention of voting for Corbyn thus far -

Really having read many of your posts I thought you were at very least a border line Corbyn supporter. :laughing:

Winseer:
but even I have to admit that I reckon he’s bloody well RIGHT to be asking such questions right now - simply because no one else apparently has the bottle to!!!

:open_mouth: :open_mouth: :open_mouth: I reckon there has just been a fracture in the space time continuum, [zb]

Winseer:
Conspiracy Theorist-in-Chief,
Winseer

You must be really pleased to finally find a job to suit your undeniable talents. :laughing:

Rjan:

Carryfast:
It’s obvious that I was referring to the events of 1914 not 1939 and without which there would never have been a 1939.

It was far from obvious that you were referring to Tsarist Russia!

None of what I described could possibly have applied to 1939.While 1914 was a case of Churchill and his French allies doing everything they could to drag us into WW1 when diplomacy had actually succeeded in turning the Germans around.

1939 was a the total opposite case of Chamberlain doing everything he could to avert war with Germany.While at the same time playing for time and building up our forces to meet the probably inevitable fight with Hitler.

May fitting the description of warmonger Churchill and the EU fitting the French in 1914.When we actually need a combination of Gray in 1914 and Chamberlain in 1938.As it stands May is a loose cannon working to a defence policy of a velvet fist in an iron glove when what’s needed is vice versa.Let alone when the stupid zb hag is gambling with the country’s security and doing it as part of an EU vanity exercise in the form of eastward expansion and to save her remain agenda. :unamused:

dailymotion.com/video/x208lju 51.56 - 56.32

Franglais:
Sorry CF, but along with Rjan, I didn’t see it as “clearly” that you were talking about that bit of history.

You said it yourself.None of what I described fitted 1939.Which leaves the question of the ongoing French denial of their part in kicking off WW1 on the western front which no surprise would explain why you didn’t want to even think about 1914.I see Ukraine and the EU as acting now v Russia like France acted v Germany then and May acting like France’s warmongering puppet Churchill.Let alone when she knows that unlike Churchill she’s got absolutely nothing to back up her rhetoric even if we wanted to make the country a big sitting target for Putin,all to meet EU military adventurism and expansionism.

While Corbyn’s answer to it all is let’s get rid of what nuclear deterrent that we might actually have.That’ll work. :unamused:

Rather than let’s increase it and take full control of it and tell the US that we’re not here as a sacrificial mug to save the US.Together with a policy of demilitarisation of Russia’s old buffer states and telling the EU that we’ll support Russia v the EU on Ukraine.So as to at least stand more chance of never having to use it.

muckles:

Franglais:

manalishi:
Any thoughts on this.Seems rather convenient to blame Russia,a bit staged,theyre looking to kick off ww3 I realise but this seems a little too simplistic…a black op perchance?

Why ignore the obvious?
Princess Diana died in a car crash.
The USA did land on the Moon.
Crop circles are made by pranksters.
Russia did invade the Crimea.

You forgot these other truths promoted by Governments and widely reported by the mainstream media, that aren’t believed by the conspiracy theorists either.

Weapons of Mass Destruction really existed in Iraq.
Sadam can launch a Missile attack on the UK in 45 minutes.
Trickle down Economics will make us all richer.
The WTO is there to enforce rules on fair trade.
The IMF will help stabilise economies and reduce poverty.

Judging by the cynical reaction of most of the people I know to the announcement that this attack was carried out under the orders of Putin, I think our leaders and media have cried wolf one to many times for anything they say to be taken at face value.

WMD and 45min were proved to be lies. There was Hans Blix(?sorry) and others the disputing truth of them at the time if memory serves me right?
With Russian toxin involvement there seems few dissenting voices?
Economic policies and the role and motivation of International Development Funds etc are not really (dis)provable in any sense as Economics isn’t a science and it’s actions and any results are open to “interpretation”.
Maybe my thinking on this is a bit naive but sometimes 2+2 really does make 4!

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Franglais:

muckles:
You forgot these other truths promoted by Governments and widely reported by the mainstream media, that aren’t believed by the conspiracy theorists either.

Weapons of Mass Destruction really existed in Iraq.
Sadam can launch a Missile attack on the UK in 45 minutes.
Trickle down Economics will make us all richer.
The WTO is there to enforce rules on fair trade.
The IMF will help stabilise economies and reduce poverty.

Judging by the cynical reaction of most of the people I know to the announcement that this attack was carried out under the orders of Putin, I think our leaders and media have cried wolf one to many times for anything they say to be taken at face value.

WMD and 45min were proved to be lies. There was Hans Blix(?sorry) and others the disputing truth of them at the time if memory serves me right?
With Russian toxin involvement there seems few dissenting voices?
Economic policies and the role and motivation of International Development Funds etc are not really (dis)provable in any sense as Economics isn’t a science and it’s actions and any results are open to “interpretation”.
Maybe my thinking on this is a bit naive but sometimes 2+2 really does make 4!

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Although they were proved to be lies after the event, at the time any opposition was pretty much silenced, either by governments sidelining them or by media campaigns, or the case of David Kelly who conveniently committed suicide.
The opposition and questions from us normal people were ignored, our leaders told us they knew better, they had the evidence, which is pretty much what they’re saying this time, it might well be a Putin sanctioned attack, I wouldn’t deny that, but for me and many others we are no longer willing to believe anything our leaders or mainstream media says without corroboration, the problem is they have cried wolf to many times.