Carryfast:
Doesn’t seem to say anything there about lowering the height of the unit to put the fifth wheel below the trailer when coupling to avoid moving grease off the fifth wheel.As opposed to use the ramps/fifth wheel forks to lift it.
I look forward to your 2.5 million word re-write then mate!
I look forward to the apologies from all those that have been doing it all wrong.By going back under the trailer with the fifth wheel sitting at a lower height than the trailer then lifting it using the air suspension because they are scared of wiping a bit of grease off the fifth wheel.
Not going to happen mate, I like lube concentrated!
Besides, it’s easy to judge when to stop and lift the suspension so you don’t carry on and go under the pin…
I was given a hand full of booklets yesterday in work, because I had a WTD infringement on my tacho download data. This booklet was given to me by the TM, he said I don’t want to teach you to ■■■■ eggs. SO WHY ■■■■■■■ GIVE IT TO ME??
The Problem, as quoted in the booklet.
Forgetful drivers forgetting to put the hand or trailer brake on when coupling uncoupling causing death injury and damage.(well not the exact quote, bit it’s what they are getting at)
They know what the biggest problem is, so why don’t the authorities force the industry to retrofit automatic trailer brakes to all trailers instead of them only being compulsory on new equipment, can’t see it being a very expensive modification.
weeto:
They know what the biggest problem is, so why don’t the authorities force the industry to retrofit automatic trailer brakes to all trailers instead of them only being compulsory on new equipment, can’t see it being a very expensive modification.
Unfortunately the authorities tend not to work that way - they leave it to industry, which is the problem. An operator sees a pound sign and three figures on a quote to fit a little valve and considers that waaaaay to expensive to help a driver. It could after all go towards another holiday or maybe a better chair in the office.
Where I used to work we had 140+ trailers, work on a cost of £300+ for each trailer to purchase valves and then re-pipe etc that adds up to a lot of dosh and then of course there are hire trailers out of the operators control.
But you are right - it should be legislated so that all trailers are standardised in this area.
weeto:
They know what the biggest problem is, so why don’t the authorities force the industry to retrofit automatic trailer brakes to all trailers instead of them only being compulsory on new equipment, can’t see it being a very expensive modification.
Unfortunately the authorities tend not to work that way - they leave it to industry, which is the problem. An operator sees a pound sign and three figures on a quote to fit a little valve and considers that waaaaay to expensive to help a driver. It could after all go towards another holiday or maybe a better chair in the office.
Where I used to work we had 140+ trailers, work on a cost of £300+ for each trailer to purchase valves and then re-pipe etc that adds up to a lot of dosh and then of course there are hire trailers out of the operators control.
But you are right - it should be legislated so that all trailers are standardised in this area.
Indeed. Another problem in this industry is that operators seem to react with the mentality that it’s purely a problem of discipline and misconduct.
Perhaps that is a bias that naturally develops amongst managers who have unlimited power to hire and fire but have no power over budgets, but even amongst those who do have the power to spend, you often find that they don’t price in the cost of the “disciplinary” solution in terms of additional recruitment, sackings, continued accidental damage, and the subtle bad feelings and loss of trust (and lost productivity and inflexibility) that arises from terrorising the workforce, the risk of workplace injury claims (including by those who are hurt by others’ misconduct), and finally the risk that brandishing blunt force alone may simply make no impression and cause no change!
It’s like the boss who shouts and balls about constant queues in the kitchen, so he gets asked for an instant coffee machine as a solution, and responds “but that’s what I hire staff for, they should make their own coffee”. It can be very difficult to present an effective argument against that mentality.
That was my thought. I haven’t read it as tbh I really can’t be arsed, but surely to Christ Coupling and Uncoupling a ■■■■ trailer could be condensed into 2 pages at the most, or have I missed something here.
That was my thought. I haven’t read it as tbh I really can’t be arsed, but surely to Christ Coupling and Uncoupling a [zb] trailer could be condensed into 2 pages at the most, or have I missed something here.
Having read it I think the high page count is because they spend time explaining how brake systems work etc to try and explain why a driver needs to check certain things.
I do think there is something in teaching the theory and not just saying “Because I say so”. A lot of drivers cannot see/understand the difference between dropping the red line and putting the trailer brake on. Many have ‘argued’ with me that dropping the red line does the same thing. Once the difference is explained some would say “I didn’t know that” and others will just carry on as they were.
The guide is there - those that want to read it can and those that don’t want to can ignore it.
shep532:
If anyone is interested in taking a look the FTA have produced a new 26 page guide to safe trailer coupling and uncoupling. I’ve only had a quick read but it looks to contain useful information
the nodding donkey:
God knows how we got to the naughties… we should all be either dead, or be looking gormlessly around wondering what to do …
The thing is, what the bosses do is take the best workers with 30 years experience, look at what they’re doing, and then say to everyone else, “do what he does!”. Or even take two of the best workers, who don’t do everything right as individuals, and then zip together the best bits and say to everyone “do what they both do!” (which is actually what nobody is doing!).
The reality is, the guy with 30 years experience has made a lot of mistakes (or seen a lot) and has learned incrementally from them over 30 years, and he might have personal qualities that have made him a bit better than all the rest too. He’s reached his own peak, of what he can manage to remember to do, and the amount of effort he feels is important and justified from experience, etc.
Other guys with 30 years experience might, by good luck, not have made all those same mistakes, so they do things differently. Some might make mistakes and never learn, because they’re already doing the best they can, and they’re not capable of doing any better, or looking out for any more hazards, or putting any more effort in.
Then you get them trying to take new drivers, and get them to follow everything that a guy of 30 years is doing - which took the latter 30 years to learn to do!
Lets face it ,if you need some book from a bunch of burocrats to tell you something as simple as coupling a bloody trailer then you really shouldnt be on the road should you.
the nodding donkey:
God knows how we got to the naughties… we should all be either dead, or be looking gormlessly around wondering what to do …
Judging by the amount of times I’ve read in various industry journals over the years, of driver crushed to death by runaway trailer, driver died after falling off trailer, worker dies after being run over by reversing lorry. And the many us who made a mistake or cut a corner and got away with it. I think the odd refresher for old hands and a good explaination for new drivers isn’t a bad thing.
There is plenty of bad press over H&S and not helped by plenty of stupidly implemented regulations, but the basic principle of having rules and procedures to make the working environment as safe as possible should be welcomed, after all I’m sure we all want to get home in one piece at the end of a shift.
Bking:
Lets face it ,if you need some book from a bunch of burocrats to tell you something as simple as coupling a bloody trailer then you really shouldnt be on the road should you.
Hardly bloody rocket science is it?
Nobody’s saying it is rocket science mate, but with Shep being a driver trainer, he no doubt pointed it out to help new a nd learning drivers eh?
Rocket science it aint. But take a few minutes to read it and it is a good learning tool for new drivers. We old hands do tend to forget how our knowledge has been added to by years of experience, and hearing about (or having) near misses and, reports of thankfully rare, fatalities. It says it is a guide both for drivers and also those in training and supervisory positions. Hopefully managers wont skim read this guide and then imagine they are experts, but it will give them an idea of any issues brought before them. It does give some basic advice on yard layout, lighting etc.
I thought it good in explaining the different types of braking systems now in use. I admit I never realised that there were systems that prevented the trailer brakes releasing if the red line was connected before the yellow.
The section on close coupled trailers may be useful for those pulling fridges etc for the first time? That`s the way I normally connect any trailer now, as it leaves more work space and avoids nasty grease stains on clothing.
It is a good guide and not a “check list” for those of us already familiar with much ( but maybe not all) of the kit out there.
raymundo:
I just read the opening post and saw it was written by someone at the FTA so never bothered to continue as more than likely whoever wrote it learned their driving skills in a class room or university.
Yeah, I’d also mention that most modern units do not have fith wheel ramps, so stating these as a useable reference to stopping is unclear and confusing guidance for new drivers. Picky maybe, but when constructing procedures you have to be clear and relevant. Good effort though. Better than nowt!
It seems obvious that they are just using that as an example to ( rightly ) show that you’re supposed to approach the trailer with the trailer at a ‘lower’ level to the fifth wheel table height.So that the rearward movement of the unit ‘lifts’ the trailer.
‘Not’ go back under it with the trailer at a higher level that the unit then use guesswork to stop in time and use the air suspension to lift the trailer.On the bs idea of not wiping a bit of grease off the fifth wheel.
To be fair though Carryfast air suspension wasn’t that common back in your day! I personally always reverse under with unit down then lift trailer with suspension. I’d like my mudguard tops to remain unscathed
To be fair though Carryfast air suspension want that common back in your day! I personally always reverse under with unit down then lift trailer with suspension. I’d like my mudguard tops to remain unscathed----Switchlogic.
Yep, and keeps any excess grease on or near the 5th wheel, not scraped onto the cat walk and hence onto airlines, boots etc.
Franglais:
To be fair though Carryfast air suspension want that common back in your day! I personally always reverse under with unit down then lift trailer with suspension. I’d like my mudguard tops to remain unscathed----Switchlogic.
Yep, and keeps any excess grease on or near the 5th wheel, not scraped onto the cat walk and hence onto airlines, boots etc.
Firstly the ramps ( should ) lift the trailer clear of the mudguards.If not the trailer height being level with the fifth wheel forks before going back ( should ) do the same. But nothing in the guide about going under a high trailer with a low unit to avoid moving grease. But admittedly mudguards can be a problem at least unless they are the open top type.
Franglais:
To be fair though Carryfast air suspension want that common back in your day! I personally always reverse under with unit down then lift trailer with suspension. I’d like my mudguard tops to remain unscathed----Switchlogic.
Yep, and keeps any excess grease on or near the 5th wheel, not scraped onto the cat walk and hence onto airlines, boots etc.
Firstly the ramps ( should ) lift the trailer clear of the mudguards.If not the trailer height being level with the fifth wheel forks before going back ( should ) do the same. But nothing in the guide about going under a high trailer with a low unit to avoid moving grease. But admittedly mudguards can be a problem at least unless they are the open top type.
My truck doesn’t have run up ramps and open top mud guards aren’t legal. Things move on and going under low and raising suspension is best practise now in my opinion. Nolans used to remove run up ramps from new trucks to stop drivers violently ramming units under trailers. Air suspension removed this aspect of the job
But nothing in the guide about going under a high trailer with a low unit to avoid moving grease.