daveb0789:
Can I just say all modern coaches have air conditioning so I would have thought trucks would have it too. Also air con on is cheaper than having windows open (in a car) on the motorway.
What makes you think aircon on a coach is for the drivers comfort? 
gnasty gnome:
jessicas dad:
daveb0789:
How about this one then : telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ … -damp.htmlgood for him why should he spend his shift on a soaking seat, i know i wouldnt.
Easy for you to say. You weren’t one of those held up.
I think what seems to have annoyed the passengers is the fact that no effort seems to have been made by the driver or the company to get round the problem. Surely someone could have sorted a plastic cover to stop his bum getting wet; as said in the article he’d got a waterproof coat so he could easily have sat on that, but allegedly he just walked off. No inclination whatsoever to ensure that the passengers (who after all are paying his wages) get to their work on time; typical “I’m all right Jack” attitude which unfortunately is all too common these days.
It’s not as if train drivers are exactly on minimum wage either; I accept that they have a lot of responsibility but it’s also a ■■■■ sight easier job than it was back in the old days of steam, when getting wet was an occupational hazard.
This is true. If it had been a coach driver that had walked off, you as an HGV driver could have easily commandeered the coach and driven it. By that measure any HGV driver can also ‘drive’ a train. I mean it’s not like you have to steer!
gnasty gnome:
jessicas dad:
daveb0789:
How about this one then : telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ … -damp.htmlgood for him why should he spend his shift on a soaking seat, i know i wouldnt.
Easy for you to say. You weren’t one of those held up.
I think what seems to have annoyed the passengers is the fact that no effort seems to have been made by the driver or the company to get round the problem. Surely someone could have sorted a plastic cover to stop his bum getting wet; as said in the article he’d got a waterproof coat so he could easily have sat on that, but allegedly he just walked off. No inclination whatsoever to ensure that the passengers (who after all are paying his wages) get to their work on time; typical “I’m all right Jack” attitude which unfortunately is all too common these days.
It’s not as if train drivers are exactly on minimum wage either; I accept that they have a lot of responsibility but it’s also a ■■■■ sight easier job than it was back in the old days of steam, when getting wet was an occupational hazard.
Right, as an ex Train Driver, and an ex Driver Manager, (redundancy is crap) i will explain it was perfectly reasonable for the driver to refuse to drive it.
Distraction. plain and simple. The last thing that a train driver needs is anything that will distract them from concentrating when they need to. Which is why mobile phones must be switched off, no mp3 players are allowed, no radios etc etc. It will pretty much be instant dismissal if they got caught.
An “average” commuter train will take around 1 mile to stop from approx 90 mph, so if you get the braking wrong, you’re in trouble. The skill of train driving is not getting the thing to move, it’s getting it to stop, where you want it to, when you want it to.
DonutUK:
Right, as an ex Train Driver, and an ex Driver Manager, (redundancy is crap) i will explain it was perfectly reasonable for the driver to refuse to drive it.Distraction. plain and simple. The last thing that a train driver needs is anything that will distract them from concentrating when they need to. Which is why mobile phones must be switched off, no mp3 players are allowed, no radios etc etc. It will pretty much be instant dismissal if they got caught.
An “average” commuter train will take around 1 mile to stop from approx 90 mph, so if you get the braking wrong, you’re in trouble. The skill of train driving is not getting the thing to move, it’s getting it to stop, where you want it to, when you want it to.
I see where you’re coming from, and having dabbled slightly in railways myself years ago (albeit only as a volunteer on preserved railways) I fully agree with you about unnecessary distractions; but I stand by my earlier remark that it was not an insurmountable problem and that both the operating company and the driver did not handle it well.
You know as well as I do that the fact that this train failed to run did not just inconvenience the passengers on it, but probably put a good dozen trains out of place as well, as it would have had exactly the same effect as a locomotive failure. The provision of a plastic cover (presumably used in train depots by maintenance staff in much the same way as they are in garages) would have solved the problem.
In my experience, gained from doing farm deliveries in all weathers, having a wet arse (occupational hazard when unloading with a Moffett) actually improves your concentration!
Unfortunately it’s an employers market at the moment, jobs are few & far between, & the slightest transgression can result in being told your services are no longer required.
My advice, for what it’s worth, when on a ‘probationary’ period, do as you’re told to, then ask if there’s any more you can do. It might appear to be brown nosing or arse licking but if it secures full time employment, it’ll worth it. The time for joking with the gaffer is when you’ve established yourself as a reliable, confident & valued employee.
Good luck for the future though, hope you get something soon.
As for the train driver, a damp seat is not the end of the world, a jacket on the seat & moan at the end of the shift would’ve sufficed. Refusing to drive the train & delaying hundreds of commuters is shocking, i’d be too ashamed to do something like that. No ‘can-do’ attitude with that fella.
garym91:
using aircon on trucks don’t use more fuel at all, daf did a test and they said the same
Anything being driven off an engine uses fuel, it is getting the balance right between climate and idling the engine for 3 or 4 hours
Betty Swallox:
Unfortunately it’s an employers market at the moment, jobs are few & far between, & the slightest transgression can result in being told your services are no longer required.
My advice, for what it’s worth, when on a ‘probationary’ period, do as you’re told to, then ask if there’s any more you can do. It might appear to be brown nosing or arse licking but if it secures full time employment, it’ll worth it. The time for joking with the gaffer is when you’ve established yourself as a reliable, confident & valued employee.
Good luck for the future though, hope you get something soon.As for the train driver, a damp seat is not the end of the world, a jacket on the seat & moan at the end of the shift would’ve sufficed. Refusing to drive the train & delaying hundreds of commuters is shocking, i’d be too ashamed to do something like that. No ‘can-do’ attitude with that fella.
No, a jacket wouldn’t have sufficed at all. Take it from someone who used to drive trains.
If the driver had proceeded with said jacket on seat, passed a signal at danger, and worst case, killed people, he would get no leeway at all by claiming he was “doing the right thing” by getting the train into service. He would lose his job, possibly get prosecuted and go to prison. So no, he didn’t over react.
As a former manager of train drivers, there is no way i would sanction a driver taking a train out like that. Recipe for disaster. Likewise, i have refused to drive trains where the cab heaters didn’t work in winter or were stuck on in summer, or didn’t adjust to a comfortable position.
As a manager i have disciplined drivers for contacting me via the cab radio whilst they were driving. It’s all about concentration. Which is why the pass rate at the pre employment tests for train drivers is only about 10-15%. Which is also why they get paid £40k a year.
Because you literally cannot afford to switch off for a second, not when you have a potential 500-900 people on your train, you can’t even switch off when running on green signals…because the only way a signaller can let you know of an immediate obstruction of the line, is to turn that green signal back to red…if you miss it, well, carnage can ensue.
Not only that, but you are constantly watching ahead and around you, trains coming the opposite way…is there anything wrong with them, door open, something hanging off…people on the track, p-way men, dogs, kids…if you are running on OHL equipment, anything amiss with that…track defects etc, obstructions,
Unless you’ve actually done it, it’s quite hard to explain. It is far from the easy job that people assume it is.
I make no apologies for my passionate defence of train driving…i absolutely loved the job, had i not tried to better myself by moving up the ladder i would still be there. It literally broke my heart when i got made redundant. I still cannot get over the loss of the job i loved. I have adjusted to the financial aspect of things, although it cost me my house and then my marriage.
I would go back tomorrow if i could, but having been out of competency for over 2 yrs now, any company would virtually have to train me from scratch again…not because i have forgotten how to drive a train, but simply that is what the regulations are. And as that is an investment of over £100k not many companies are prepared to do it when there are still fully qualified drivers out there looking for work.
Go backwards on City of Truro with a dusty load of coal in the tender and suddenly a wet arse isn’t so distracting
Last time someone left a window open and I had a wet seat I just put my waterproof trousers on, simples.
starfighter:
Last time someone left a window open and I had a wet seat I just put my waterproof trousers on, simples.
I find my incontinence pants work well in this situation, they work both ways in keeping moisture in and indeed out.
Cool breeze.
Were you made redundant, because you cut another train up when pulling outta the station? (Using the 3 train rule)
Would the commuter put his/her jacket over a wet seat and sit on it??
Didnt think so
Whats good for the goose is good for the gander…
bigvern1:
Were you made redundant, because you cut another train up when pulling outta the station? (Using the 3 train rule)
BuzzardBoy:
Would the commuter put his/her jacket over a wet seat and sit on it??Didnt think so
Whats good for the goose is good for the gander…
I’m confused, was it the geese who made the seat wet?
Cool breeze.
Coffeeholic:
BuzzardBoy:
Would the commuter put his/her jacket over a wet seat and sit on it??Didnt think so
Whats good for the goose is good for the gander…
I’m confused, was it the geese who made the seat wet?
Yeah, MMTM that a flock of Geese were on split train break, but didnt have access to a toilet, so had to make 3 movements, 1 on the train, 1 off the train and a bowel movement!
BuzzardBoy:
Coffeeholic:
BuzzardBoy:
Would the commuter put his/her jacket over a wet seat and sit on it??Didnt think so
Whats good for the goose is good for the gander…
I’m confused, was it the geese who made the seat wet?
Yeah, MMTM that a flock of Geese were on split train break, but didnt have access to a toilet, so had to make 3 movements, 1 on the train, 1 off the train and a bowel movement!
Thank you, it’s made it a lot clearer and I agree with the driver’s actions. I wouldn’t have sat in goose crap, coat or no coat.
Best not to mess with a goose. z0r.de/L/z0r-de_3714.swf
Muckaway:
Go backwards on City of Truro with a dusty load of coal in the tender and suddenly a wet arse isn’t so distracting
Been there (but on a Maunsell S15 on a ■■■■■■■ wet day on the NYMR) but in fairness that was at 30 mph not 90 and you don’t get a lot of time to sit down on a steam loco anyway. Mind you the forward visibility’s not quite up to modern-day standards.
@ Buzzardboy; no they’d have stood up but they’d probably have had to do so anyway on the next one due to the log-jam of delayed and cancelled trains caused by the driver’s intransigence and the company’s inability to fix a simple problem.
@■■■■■; driver was asked to sit on a wet (or damp) seat not a sharp metal spike FFS. And whilst I respect your argument about safety being paramount and the need for absolute concentration, I’d suggest that it’s no different when you’re driving a lorry. If HGV drivers were to refuse to take a truck out for something as simply fixable as a damp seat, nothing would move in this country.
gnasty gnome:
Muckaway:
Go backwards on City of Truro with a dusty load of coal in the tender and suddenly a wet arse isn’t so distractingBeen there (but on a Maunsell S15 on a ■■■■■■■ wet day on the NYMR) but in fairness that was at 30 mph not 90 and you don’t get a lot of time to sit down on a steam loco anyway. Mind you the forward visibility’s not quite up to modern-day standards.
@ Buzzardboy; no they’d have stood up but they’d probably have had to do so anyway on the next one due to the log-jam of delayed and cancelled trains caused by the driver’s intransigence and the company’s inability to fix a simple problem.
@■■■■■; driver was asked to sit on a wet (or damp) seat not a sharp metal spike FFS. And whilst I respect your argument about safety being paramount and the need for absolute concentration, I’d suggest that it’s no different when you’re driving a lorry. If HGV drivers were to refuse to take a truck out for something as simply fixable as a damp seat, nothing would move in this country.
Sorry, but driving a truck comes nowhere near the concentration level of driving a train…and i was driving trucks and coaches long before i ever drove a train!
The 2 skills are just not comparable as you have far more control over your own destiny in a truck that you do in a train, far more! For example, need a wee, pull into the services…not that simple with a train…something appears in front of you, you have options to stop, steer round it if possible, plus the stopping distance is measured in yards, not miles!
Christ even the Railway Children would throw stones at you 
DonutUK:
Betty Swallox:
Unfortunately it’s an employers market at the moment, jobs are few & far between, & the slightest transgression can result in being told your services are no longer required.
My advice, for what it’s worth, when on a ‘probationary’ period, do as you’re told to, then ask if there’s any more you can do. It might appear to be brown nosing or arse licking but if it secures full time employment, it’ll worth it. The time for joking with the gaffer is when you’ve established yourself as a reliable, confident & valued employee.
Good luck for the future though, hope you get something soon.As for the train driver, a damp seat is not the end of the world, a jacket on the seat & moan at the end of the shift would’ve sufficed. Refusing to drive the train & delaying hundreds of commuters is shocking, i’d be too ashamed to do something like that. No ‘can-do’ attitude with that fella.
No, a jacket wouldn’t have sufficed at all. Take it from someone who used to drive trains.
If the driver had proceeded with said jacket on seat, passed a signal at danger, and worst case, killed people, he would get no leeway at all by claiming he was “doing the right thing” by getting the train into service. He would lose his job, possibly get prosecuted and go to prison. So no, he didn’t over react.
As a former manager of train drivers, there is no way i would sanction a driver taking a train out like that. Recipe for disaster. Likewise, i have refused to drive trains where the cab heaters didn’t work in winter or were stuck on in summer, or didn’t adjust to a comfortable position.
As a manager i have disciplined drivers for contacting me via the cab radio whilst they were driving. It’s all about concentration. Which is why the pass rate at the pre employment tests for train drivers is only about 10-15%. Which is also why they get paid £40k a year.
Because you literally cannot afford to switch off for a second, not when you have a potential 500-900 people on your train, you can’t even switch off when running on green signals…because the only way a signaller can let you know of an immediate obstruction of the line, is to turn that green signal back to red…if you miss it, well, carnage can ensue.
Not only that, but you are constantly watching ahead and around you, trains coming the opposite way…is there anything wrong with them, door open, something hanging off…people on the track, p-way men, dogs, kids…if you are running on OHL equipment, anything amiss with that…track defects etc, obstructions,Unless you’ve actually done it, it’s quite hard to explain. It is far from the easy job that people assume it is.
I make no apologies for my passionate defence of train driving…i absolutely loved the job, had i not tried to better myself by moving up the ladder i would still be there. It literally broke my heart when i got made redundant. I still cannot get over the loss of the job i loved. I have adjusted to the financial aspect of things, although it cost me my house and then my marriage.
I would go back tomorrow if i could, but having been out of competency for over 2 yrs now, any company would virtually have to train me from scratch again…not because i have forgotten how to drive a train, but simply that is what the regulations are. And as that is an investment of over £100k not many companies are prepared to do it when there are still fully qualified drivers out there looking for work.