I think the tachograph was brought in to regulate drivers hours more accurately Petecud , I know of a few hauliers who certainly would have preferred their drivers to use the log book system .Obviously the authorities would argue they were in the interest of health and safety but the more cynical (me) would say it`s more a case of how much money they can make out of fines just like the speed cameras are and now the new average speed cameras .I know rules need to be made for safety reasons and obviously many want to break them but i personally think the drivers hours need a total overhaul in a sensible way that actually works for the UK haulage industry.
[zb]
anorak:Carryfast:
petecud:
Oh dear!! Sorry, didn’t mean to kill the thread…ooops!
PeteOr maybe just that the guvnors’ yes men,who were mostly the cause of the problem anyway,and/or supporters of counter productive over regulation,are slowly running out of justification of their views.
The regulations are created by people, for the good of people, to deter selfish criminals from earning a living off the rest. They are undermined by silly little rebels, who think they know best. In this case, the hours regs and the speed limits are there to protect the safety of everyone and the work of the driver. Circumstances occasionally dictate that the rules must be bent, but your attitude, that the whole plot is lost to regulation, is wrong. Nobody who has read your bellowings on this forum would trust you to decide how long to drive, or at what speed. You are a textbook example of the need for regulation.
So feel free to explain how you think that :
Drivers working 15 hour days.
Or having to keep going,if/when they feel like a break without the guvnor knowing.
Or trucks parking up on motorway hard shoulders because the tacho says so.
Or drivers having to plod along clear motorways at ‘less than’ the national truck speed limit when they could be finished/home for more daily rest.
Or the fact that tachos are no different to log books in the case of any committed criminal intent to work even more hours than the 15 max per day which the EU minimum daily rest requirement allows.
are supposedly ‘for the good’ of anyone.Except,possibly,the guvnors. 
or being forced to take a break when your not tired but unable to later on when it would be of benefit?
i have run back from Italy doing 4 on 4 off arrived fresher than if i had stuck to the ‘rules’.
never ran on red but know a fair few who did, and the public perception of truckers to me ( 80’s 90’ 00’ ) wasn’t that great in anycase no matter what you were doing.
Carryfast:
Saviem:
Evening all, just a thought…Carryfast,
What is your authority to post such comments as you do?
By what personal experience do you promote your opinions?
Do you have any personal experience of such things?
Cheerio for now.
The idea that log books,as opposed to tachos,and the ability to run at the domestic truck motorway limit without limiters,actually provide/d a more relaxed flexible driving and hours regime,that was/is more likely to create less stress and more opportunity for breaks and longer daily rest periods.Or that the transport unions here ( rightly ) also took that view at least in regards to tachos,is based not only on my personal ‘experience’ but also fact.Not ‘opinion’.
Meanwhile feel free to post any evidence which would suggest that the imposition of tachos and speed limiters set at 90kmh weren’t an EU directive.
Or that such a limit isn’t just a bit too seemingly convenient in matching that of the French truck motorway speed limit for it to have just been co incidence.
Or that Brit guvnors never supported imposition of tachos,against union protest,for obvious reasons in trying to get more work out of drivers.Bearing in mind the unarguable ‘flexibility’ which log books provided in creating extra rest time potential for drivers without the knowledge of guvnors.
Or the ‘fact’ that the type of operator or driver who intended/s to break the rules to criminal levels was/is going to be deterred by tachos etc.
Small problem here, the actual speed limit in France for HGVs was 80km/h, although le flic would turn a blind eye at 90km/h. It’s a long time ago, but I’m sure only Britain with 60mph, Spain with 100km/h on the Autopista and Belgium at 90km/h were the only countries in Europe with a limit higher than 80km/h.
Carryfast:
Bewick:
Are you “anti” 'Guv’nor “CF” (sorry about using so many inverted comma’s) and I thought you were a good Mucker of mineTo be fair the Guvnor’s interests are always going to be opposite to the workers.In which case as I said feel free to explain how tachos did anything other than provide the guvnors with a stick to use on the backs of drivers regards ‘unauthorised breaks’ or ‘late starts’ and ‘early finishes’ at least,while doing nothing to stop those with criminal intent regards hours regs.Thereby creating an hours regime which resulted in less rest for drivers not more.
More tripe…
The worker wouldn’t be a worker without a guvnor! Not a difficult concept to grasp!
Bewick:
Lawrence Dunbar:
toby1234abc:
Yet another post torpedoed, bombed on and bamboozled by Carryfast, I have never known anyone to come out with so much tripe, I think you have never driven a lorry and have no licence for a Raleigh Chopper.
- 1, Regards Larry.
Hiya Larry, question,how can “CF” have experienced “running bent” on a Council bin motor ? It would make his [zb] hair curl to have had to put in the many hours we worked outside of “legal” eh! Cheers Dennis.
Talking about taking breaks and marking driving on the log book ffs, typical council worker logic to doss around while the ratepayers pay your wages.
Speaking as an operator, we knew full well drivers bent the law, and we would support them, however there is a difference to drivers who broke the law, and in those cases it would be instant dismissal. The same was true with the Ministry of Transport in our area. They weren’t worried of the driver who drove quarter of an hour extra to get back home, or get to somewhere safe to park. Most of our drivers would for instance park near their first delivery for a morning and pull round the corner & unload before putting their tachograph card in. We knew and turned a blind eye as in reality it got them an extra hour or so to get home on a night, and in reality what danger was there in that.
Drivers are human beings not a piece of machinery, and it saddens me to hear that today’s drivers have to pull up, wherever they are and park up, in the middle of nowhere, just because the tacho says they have to. Today noone seems to understand that a happy contented driver is a better driver, and it is a lonely job, particularly if you haven’t got any hope of parking up on a night where you can meet up with a few pals, or for that matter stop for a break in a Transport cafe, which now seem to have all gone.
In reality I ask this question Who is the safer driver. One who has a say in where and when they stop and can enjoy making and meeting friends, or the machine type that the industry of today has created, that have a life similar to a hamster in a cage, just following a designed route and instructions from others?
CARL if you have done the job ,i mean roaming in Europe or even in the uk, not your Stobart S…t you see on tv,you normally would work it out your self where you would park to suit you as driver and most important would be the deliver time ,or loading time, why on earth would you want to be bothered about parking up with mates, you ,are ,were a DRIVER[ mr on your own] getting the job done .
On this site there is a variety of driver,some worked for companies like i did, owner drivers, drivers who worked for their family, we all have/had a differnt outlook , drivers who worked for trip money, for a small time owner driver with maybe 3 trucks would be the ones who would run the “most bent”.however we all had a choice,… if we took the card out to pinch a hour or two you would,… convince your self you were doing it for your self ,yes true, if it meant you caught a ferry that day and not the next,the boss or,company would get the benifit by the load getting tipped earlier, or maybe not.
you have read some of the goings on 4 on 4 off, from ITALY NO WONDER THE RATES FOR GROUPAGE WERE CRAP.
Double manning was bad enough but 4on 4 off ?
I have done it all [bent running] the same as hundreds of drivers untill MARCH 1994 ALL DRIVERS FACING SUMMONSES AT … COURT The company paid all the fines. and lost most of the jobs ,drivers .Read my driving history.pages way back on here.
I once had a disc that when my manager saw it, he advised me to shred it, which I promptly did.