B1 GGK:
ckm1981:
B1 GGK:
Carryfast:
B1 GGK:
maga:
lolipop:
Dont you just love the negative on some of these postings. Theres far more to the Transport Industry than sitting on your backside moaning about Road Haulage pay rates and traffic hold ups on the M6 or greasy food at the Red Lion cafe or being stuck at an RDC somewhere in the back of beyond without grub.
If somebody has the initiative to take on an Apprentice, whose to say that he or she is not going to be taught anything, instead of being labelled as somebody working on the cheap.
Start at the bottom and work up
initiative haha! i’m sure companies are offering apprenticeships out of the goodness of their hearts and to help youth unemployment. I doubt very much companies are interested in the cheap slave labour or the various government cash incentives on offer 
Companies only have to pay the salary of the apprentices (min wage is £2.68 p/h) and all training is paid for by the government.
Your right, it is a load of corporate BS to give them a good sense of wellbeing, but there are some folk out there who want to get into the industry but age and money is against them, here they have an opportunity to gain qualifications whilst working, so everyones a winner.
We all have to start somewhere, why mock it?
The issue isn’t that of getting young people into the industry early it’s the question of the wage rate while they’re training.
Is that not the same within any training scheme in any trade?
Yes but with any other trade you learn the job from day one of the apprentiship,this would not be possible doing a road transport apprentiship as @ 17 you can’t learn to drive a HGV.
So you’d spend a year or two earning £50 or so a week being a general dogsbody,with the promise that in 2 years they may train you as a hgv driver IF they need drivers at the time and IF the companies insurance would even cover A)someone under 25 and B)a newly passed driver.
In a normal apprentice like say plumber you spend the time of your apprentiship learning how to be a plumber,this is not possible to do as a apprentice HGV driver.
There is a firm local to me that take on kids on a whatever the YTS is now,
You start in the warehouse and go to college 1 day a week either scrubbing up on your GCSE’s or getting somekind of qualification through a combined home study, after 2 years your sent out as a drivers mate for a couple of years, then dependant on which side of the business your on your either getting your own van or being put through your HGV, as they run vans through to Class1 the apprentice is rewarded, ok so they dont pay the big money but they are giving the kids something far more valuable than a decent pay cheque every week.
A lad who worked in the warehouse not long after school is now a big suit for a major international company, he only left school 20 year ago.
I remember years back at one Company I worked at 2 young lads started as trainees in the office /yard never drove a wagon, even when they where age wise allowed to.I met one of them sometime years later he was a Area Manager for Transport related outfit and his m8 who he kept in touch with over the years was TM for an International outfit.
So there`s more to Transport than being a low paid “steering wheel attendant”
Sidevalve:
Carryfast:
Exactly what ‘law’ limits what an 18 year old LGV driver can do,regarding hours,equipment and working environments as opposed to an older one.Yes it is better to get ‘drivers’ into the industry as soon as possible.Which means getting them out ‘driving’ a truck on a fair wage at the earliest legal age possible.Somehow I don’t think that is exactly what is being described in the case of ‘driver’ apprenticeships’.
We were taking about under-18’s if you remember. They, as you well know, are limited by law in regard to hours and shifts; they can’t work before 7am or after 7pm, are limited to a maximum 40 hour week, and must have a one hour break after four hours of work. From September 2013, school leavers apparently have to do some sort of part-time college work which presumably would be covered by the apprenticeship.
As to getting them out on the road at the earliest age possible; well, that is exactly what the Young Driver Scheme sets out to do. Rather than me cherry-pick the points, take the time to have a read through the criteria as set out here;
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As you can see, there’s a fair amount that can be done before the trainee actually gets behind the wheel. Whilst this could be done intensively in a matter of a few weeks, it would make better sense to use the time to acclimatise the trainee to the working environment and also assess his capabilities before committing to the driver training. Not something that can be done effectively in a classroom environment. it’s also a two-way street; the trainee gets to see for himself what the job entails first hand, and may well decide it isn’t for him after all before he commits to the driver training.
Under the present rules it seems that a school leaver wouldn’t have any choice between either having to stay in education or enter an ‘apprenticeship’ type of scheme anyway.In which case there’s probably nothing to lose by at least earning something while obviously being better placed to enter the industry.
‘However’ that still leaves the questions regarding wage rates and career progression guarantees.Which would seperate,what ‘could’,in some circumstances,be regarded as a cheap labour exercise to fill office and/or warehouse vacancies,by using the carrot of driver training and driving jobs thereby taking advantage of the enthusiasm of prospective drivers.
lolipop:
I remember years back at one Company I worked at 2 young lads started as trainees in the office /yard never drove a wagon, even when they where age wise allowed to.I met one of them sometime years later he was a Area Manager for Transport related outfit and his m8 who he kept in touch with over the years was TM for an International outfit.
So there`s more to Transport than being a low paid “steering wheel attendant”
That would depend on wether they were originally taken on as trainee ‘drivers’ or knew from the start that the driving side of the job wasn’t an issue in that they’d be happy to enter and work in the industry in a non driving role.
The question in that case being possible confirmation that ‘driver apprenticeships’ can be anything but and for anyone who is entering the industry on the basis of wanting to be a ‘driver’ then ‘driver’ training and job placement at the earliest legal age is an essential question that needs to be sorted out in the form of guarantees regarding that at the interview stage.
Carryfast:
Under the present rules it seems that a school leaver wouldn’t have any choice between either having to stay in education or enter an ‘apprenticeship’ type of scheme anyway.In which case there’s probably nothing to lose by at least earning something while obviously being better placed to enter the industry.
‘However’ that still leaves the questions regarding wage rates and career progression guarantees.Which would seperate,what ‘could’,in some circumstances,be regarded as a cheap labour exercise to fill office and/or warehouse vacancies,by using the carrot of driver training and driving jobs thereby taking advantage of the enthusiasm of prospective drivers.
I do concede that there may be scope for abuse; again though I’d refer you to the military set-up. Initial training in the forces is not only designed to teach soldiers how to march in step and salute officers, but also to get them used to such things as routine, following orders, looking after their equipment, and furthermore to weed out those who cannot hack the job or are otherwise unsuited. The civilian apprenticeship can follow similar lines, to the benefit of both parties. I have incidentally noted in today’s news on the BBC that the government plans to increase the minimum wage for apprentices, which is welcome. It should be noted though that once wages go above a certain level the trainee pays income tax and NI the same as the rest of us do.
I still maintain that an element of hands-on practical experience in both office and warehouse environments can only be of benefit to a prospective driver. Many of us, at one stage or another in our driving careers, have ended up in situations where a better understanding of the other person’s job would have stood us in good stead and perhaps avoided misunderstandings and arguments.
Let’s say for example one of those trainees starts at a company who do warehousing as well as haulage, and spends a couple of months of his training in the gatehouse/weighbridge/goods in or whatever you want to call it. Not only will he move on from there with a thorough grounding in the paperwork side of the job (which as you know yourself gets more complex by the day) but he’ll also have a pretty good grasp of what goes where, who needs to be informed and loads of other stuff too. That has got to be useful experience, and if he also comes out of it understanding that the office staff have their own crosses to bear, he may treat them better in future when he’s out on the road himself. So we all benefit.
Sidevalve:
Carryfast:
Under the present rules it seems that a school leaver wouldn’t have any choice between either having to stay in education or enter an ‘apprenticeship’ type of scheme anyway.In which case there’s probably nothing to lose by at least earning something while obviously being better placed to enter the industry.
‘However’ that still leaves the questions regarding wage rates and career progression guarantees.Which would seperate,what ‘could’,in some circumstances,be regarded as a cheap labour exercise to fill office and/or warehouse vacancies,by using the carrot of driver training and driving jobs thereby taking advantage of the enthusiasm of prospective drivers.
I do concede that there may be scope for abuse; again though I’d refer you to the military set-up. Initial training in the forces is not only designed to teach soldiers how to march in step and salute officers, but also to get them used to such things as routine, following orders, looking after their equipment, and furthermore to weed out those who cannot hack the job or are otherwise unsuited. The civilian apprenticeship can follow similar lines, to the benefit of both parties. I have incidentally noted in today’s news on the BBC that the government plans to increase the minimum wage for apprentices, which is welcome. It should be noted though that once wages go above a certain level the trainee pays income tax and NI the same as the rest of us do.
I still maintain that an element of hands-on practical experience in both office and warehouse environments can only be of benefit to a prospective driver. Many of us, at one stage or another in our driving careers, have ended up in situations where a better understanding of the other person’s job would have stood us in good stead and perhaps avoided misunderstandings and arguments.
Let’s say for example one of those trainees starts at a company who do warehousing as well as haulage, and spends a couple of months of his training in the gatehouse/weighbridge/goods in or whatever you want to call it. Not only will he move on from there with a thorough grounding in the paperwork side of the job (which as you know yourself gets more complex by the day) but he’ll also have a pretty good grasp of what goes where, who needs to be informed and loads of other stuff too. That has got to be useful experience, and if he also comes out of it understanding that the office staff have their own crosses to bear, he may treat them better in future when he’s out on the road himself. So we all benefit.
Having dealt with all of those ‘issues’ during my own entry path into the industry I’d say that trying to impose the military doctrine ( IE soldier first ) is just confirms to me the idea that ‘driver apprenticeships’ are a bad thing from the point of view of someone who is committed to the job of a driver from day 1.Thereby being a counterproductive idea from the point of view of someone who is committed to entering the industry as a driver in a civilian employment environment.
As everyone knows the army route into the job is the worst of all worlds one of an over subscribed trade sector,in a recruitment environment in which it will be mostly luck as to wether a recruit will actually be placed in that.Together with all the other drawbacks of army life in which not only your on and off duty life, but also the career path,is totally in the hands of others and in which the job is taken on under that understanding.Which is why more or less everyone who I knew,who joined up to be a driver in the army,bought themselves out.Firstly because of that over subscribed trade issue,in which the army knew that not all of them could be placed in the jobs they’d joined up to do and the fact that the drawbacks of army life outweighed any benefits of doing the job anyway even if they were part of the lucky few chosen.
Luckily for me I’d already been told all that by my father who’d been a REME driver/mechanic during WW2 based on his advice that in the army you’re a soldier first and you do whatever you’re told to do with no choice in the matter regarding hours,duties and career path.In which case stay out of it unless you’re called up and there’s no choice.
In my own case having started out as an apprentice engineer in a factory making trucks it was a matter of luck and determination on my part that saw me firstly driving the firm’s 7.5 tonner and then the heavy vehicles which I’d been helping to make.That determination still to this day tells me no there is no relationship between doing any inside job and that of a driver.Although I will say that spending some time at a desk doing the management CPC is a well worthwhile exception to that rule.While everything else that needs to be learned requires on the job experience working in the yard loading and unloading vehicles and as a driver.
It seems obvious that working in a warehouse or an office is just wasting valuable learning time in that regard. 
yorkshire terrier:
What’s your thoughts on these? My mates lad has just stared one after leaving school and seems to be learning a lot about transport.
He has started in the office doing odd jobs then moves on to warehouse/yard duties and then on to lgv driving gaining all licences on the way.
I know he will see it through because he has a real interest in the industry but wonder how many lads will take one on and realise it’s not for them.
I think a lot of young lads will benefit from these myself.
Just appeared on the jobs website…
Gregory Distribution Ltd (Head Office)
4 x DRIVER APPRENTICES
Job description
We are looking to recruit up to 4 Apprentices at our Cullompton Distribution Centre for Driving Goods Vehicles apprenticeships.
You will be required to undertake full transport operations, learning every aspect of a Pallet Delivery Transport Drivers’ role and responsibilities. This will be achieved whilst working towards a Level 2 Apprenticeship in Driving Goods Vehicles, with future prospects including progressing to a permanent position driving for the company.
You will be trained in the workplace for a period of between 12 to 16 months. Alongside your usual duties, you will attend Transplant Training Centre in Exeter for training.
The Level 2 Apprenticeship in Driving Goods Vehicles will also include the following:
A competency based qualification
A knowledge qualification
Employee rights and responsibilities qualification
Functional Skills (as required)
You will be working an average of 40 hours per week, Monday to Friday (with occasional weekend/evening work as necessary) on a salary of £207 per week.
You will need to hold a full UK driving licence and, due to the high level of customer service required, you will need to be confident, outgoing and dedicated to providing a quality service; representing the company in a positive manner at all times.
alphonsohall:
yorkshire terrier:
What’s your thoughts on these? My mates lad has just stared one after leaving school and seems to be learning a lot about transport.
He has started in the office doing odd jobs then moves on to warehouse/yard duties and then on to lgv driving gaining all licences on the way.
I know he will see it through because he has a real interest in the industry but wonder how many lads will take one on and realise it’s not for them.
I think a lot of young lads will benefit from these myself.
Just appeared on the jobs website…
Gregory Distribution Ltd (Head Office)
4 x DRIVER APPRENTICES
Job description
We are looking to recruit up to 4 Apprentices at our Cullompton Distribution Centre for Driving Goods Vehicles apprenticeships.
You will be required to undertake full transport operations, learning every aspect of a Pallet Delivery Transport Drivers’ role and responsibilities. This will be achieved whilst working towards a Level 2 Apprenticeship in Driving Goods Vehicles, with future prospects including progressing to a permanent position driving for the company.
You will be trained in the workplace for a period of between 12 to 16 months. Alongside your usual duties, you will attend Transplant Training Centre in Exeter for training.
The Level 2 Apprenticeship in Driving Goods Vehicles will also include the following:
A competency based qualification
A knowledge qualification
Employee rights and responsibilities qualification
Functional Skills (as required)
You will be working an average of 40 hours per week, Monday to Friday (with occasional weekend/evening work as necessary) on a salary of £207 per week.
You will need to hold a full UK driving licence and, due to the high level of customer service required, you will need to be confident, outgoing and dedicated to providing a quality service; representing the company in a positive manner at all times.
If I was a school leaver I would be going for that.
Looks good on the surface. Note that applicants need to hold a full UK driving licence though, which excludes anyone under 17; although I can understand the logic since if a trainee struggles to pass that then there’s no hope for him.
Also worth noting that under-18’s are subject to certain restrictions in working hours; here’s what the law says.
"If you are over school leaving age (see under heading General rules on employment) and under 18, the law says that you must not work more than eight hours a day, or more than 40 hours a week. You must have twelve hours’ rest between each working day, and 48 hours’ rest per working week. You are also entitled to a 30-minute rest break when you work for longer than four and a half hours. There are some exceptions to this (see below).
There are special limits on the hours you can work at night. You cannot usually work between 10pm and 6am. If you are contracted to work after 10pm, you must stop work at 11pm and not start again before 7am. There are some exceptions for young people who work in hospitals, agriculture, retail, hotels and catering, bakeries, post/newspaper deliveries, or in connection with cultural, artistic, sporting or advertising activities. You are not allowed to work between midnight and 4am, except in the most exceptional circumstances.
The rules about working at night do not apply when:-
your employer needs you to work to maintain continuity of service or production, or to respond to a sudden rush in demand; and
doing the work would not affect your education or training; and
no adult is available to do the work; and
you are supervised by an adult (if this is necessary for your protection) and you are allowed a period of rest as compensation.
If you are allowed to work at night, you must first be given a free assessment of your health and ability to do the work. The assessment should be repeated at regular intervals. You must not work more than eight hours in a 24 hour period."
Not sure if the 48 hours rest has to be in one block.
I really think that getting lads in at 16-17 is the way forward,you can train them the key aspects of the job and let them get used to the “culture” of transport as it’s not for everyone.
Some of the biggest idiots iv worked with have been bloke who have come in to the industry later on in life.
I think if you pass your test young you grow up with the truck but some blokes who I know who passed in later life don’t seem to have the confidence of lads half there age.