Carryfast:
Surely the costs of Euro 6 compliance combined with the cost of the fuel itself has already made diesel obsolete and unviable for road use ?.When the London ULEZ requirement at least has already advised that conversion to spark ignition and LPG would be an acceptable solution.At which point road transport can then claim the moral high ground over diesel fuelled rail locomotives hauling containers in this case for example.
Unlike you to be so naive CF !
It’s nothing to do with “meeting EU air quality standards” or whatever they’re choosing to call it this week. If it was then the solution would be to simply ban ALL vehicles that do not meet x emissions criteria - euro 6 in this case for diesels. By continuing to allow vehicles in that do not meet x emissions criteria but only in exchange for a fee is hypocrisy of the highest order and proves that it’s just a huge con by the local authorities/central government (whichever one the money ends up at).
Do people honestly think that if we were all driving around in the latest euroboxes that emit pink fluffy bunnies from their exhaust pipes that the LAs/government would be happy? Of course they wouldn’t. They would just dream up some other BS to tax us with, so long as it keeps their nice gravy trains rolling along. Once everyone is driving an EV or modern eurobox and “EU air quality standards” are met, they’ll move the goalposts to congestion charging (as is happening already). All the cities and major towns will get it, then it will start being rolled out on the motorway network at peak times, then trunk roads, then once the general public have got used to it and accepted it, it will jump to being in effect 24/7 and voila, road charging and tolls nicely sneaked in through the back door under the guise of “congestion charging”.
The only reason they’re using the EU air quality standards excuse right now is because it’s more “agreeable” with the lemmings than congestion charging. That’s why it’s the ULEZ that’s being extended to the North and South Circular and not the CC zone . When everyone is driving around in an EV and TFL sees their ULEZ gravy train judder to a halt, I’ll bet my house that the first thing to happen will be the CC zone gets extended to the N & S Circular.
+1
Absolutely no doubt that like fuel taxation there’s an agenda within an agenda to as usual raise revenues in a flat rate way that affects highest earners least.Not to mention yet more aggro inflicted on the industry in an attempt to shift more freight from road to rail.
But having said that I still can’t see the point in going to all the expense of buying/running/maintaining a Euro 6 diesel.When an LPG conversion would tick all the same boxes and arguably more,for less cost and aggro at the end of the day.Also bearing in mind the issue of container haulage rates v silly cost kit and fuel costs and that there are already spark ignition versions,of current truck diesel types,in operation in industrial applications.
I think taxation will change with time. If all new vehicles fall into a zero band, then the band’s parameters will be changed.
Alternative fuels? I reckon you’re right.
Jacky Perrenot is after 1,000 CNG trucks by 2020 I think. Bit more than a tentative toe in the water, I’d say.
So pleased I shall be gone by this date…Totally fed up with ill informed desk wallahs, making life impacting decisions, upon those who wish to stay…It is all wrong and designed to take all of your money from you.
The UK is unsustainable, if you have freedom of thought and mind…The smart money will be leaving and has been for a while now…Sad, as it was a good place to live.
truckyboy:
Its not only southampton…many major towns and cities are doing the same, and many from abroad also…Paris, Madrid etc and all due to come into force in 2020…their excuse is the air pollution act…so hauliers can make em pay for that …if they get a collection from those places…or a delivery…whack the hundred quid onto the price…or the quote…its the only way to get back at these idiots who are are not drivers…but pen pushers.
When the congestion charge came in, it was easy. If the job charged 300.00, well it changed to 310.00. Simple.
It’s harder to do though when the charge varies from vehicle to vehicle. Now in 2020, it’s deliver to X city and Euro 4 or 5 gets charged 100.00, where as Euro 6 doesn’t. If I ran a big fleet of container trucks, I’d be sending my Euro 6s into Southampton and if I had any older Euro 5s, send them to Andover where there is no charge.
As I said before, what happens is a disregard for the total vehicle replacement costs. I see a maroon Scania 111 (I think it is), pulling boxes. If that belonged to one if the corporates that would have been changed at least 6 times. I would be really interested (I’ll get my anorak), to find out what the costs environmentally speaking are of building and scrapping possibly those 6+ trucks versus that old Scania and its emissions.
If it’s anorak time, you’re asking some relevant questions. Buying a Prius but scrapping it when ut needs a battery pack maybe more damaging overall than running a less fuel efficient old banger.
What we’re being told (I think) with the current regs is that particulates are the real problem.
Carbon Dioxide and Climate Change are still there, but in other parts of the world, water scarcity is fast becoming a major issue.
As you’re saying the Whole picture needs examination from all angles, pollution from carbon and NOx gases, usage of energy (including hydrocarbons) in the production of vehicles as well as their use in transportation. Water, pollution from rare earth extraction for batteries. The list of problems is huge.
Encouraging use of cleaner newer trucks is probably good, but it’s not the “magic bullet” some politicos would have us believe.
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There was a study done when the Pirus first came out and it compared the environmental footprint of a Pirus and a Cherokee Jeep form the raw materials coming out of the ground to when the vehicle was scrapped, the fuel used during their lifetimes and the toxic waste left at the end that couldn’t be recycled and the jeep came out as the most environmentally friendly the Pirus’s biggest downfall was the impact of the making of the batteries and their short life and thus their need to be replaced
Franglais:
I think taxation will change with time. If all new vehicles fall into a zero band, then the band’s parameters will be changed.
Alternative fuels? I reckon you’re right.
Jacky Perrenot is after 1,000 CNG trucks by 2020 I think. Bit more than a tentative toe in the water, I’d say.
The choice between LPG v CNG is a no brainer.That’s even without factoring in the superior infrastructure already in place to fill LPG fuelled vehicles.
The most realistic way forward would be large scale switch from diesel to LPG then LPG to hydrogen fuelled ICE.On that note it’s unbelievable that everyone is still trying to cling on to obsolete,dirty,expensive diesel requiring all the aggro of Euro 6 vehicles and paying more than £1 per litre for the privilege .When it’s just a case of telling the vehicle manufacturers to supply a spark ignition engine therefore suitable for running on alternative cleaner fuels.Which is already doable using available technology.
Hydrogen has storage issues. It is clean, but only after it has been produced. Looking at the whole picture how can we make enough electricity to produce it? Another big debate about clean electricity there.
At the end of December 2018 Perrenot will have 550 gas powered Iveco tractors on the road, closely followed by Mauffrey .
The numbers are small in comparison with Spain where the infrastructure exists for refuelling . I was at the Perrenot tank on Monday and having arrived at 14.00, 4 Spaniards then had to wait for me to fill the tank and for the pressure to come back up so they could fill. They weren’t impressed with the 3 hour wait . One had come from Birmingham, via Poitiers and after that Madrid due to the siting of tanks.
Big shipping lines are slowly converting ships to run on gas for the cost and enviromental savings,However it’s still a finite resourse and if a diesel powered ship is bringing gas to France from the far north of Russia and the deepest darkest Peru its a dubious enviromental saving . A cost saving to hauliers over diesel though.
Franglais:
Hydrogen has storage issues. It is clean, but only after it has been produced. Looking at the whole picture how can we make enough electricity to produce it? Another big debate about clean electricity there.
It seems strange how there is no problem with electricity production in the case of EV’s or even hydrogen for fuel cell type vehicles.But as soon as the best of all worlds option of hydrogen fuelled ICE is mentioned all the obstacles conveniently start appearing.On that note yes I agree,as it stands,nothing short of a nuclear nightmare will provide sufficient electricity for hydrogen fuelled vehicles or EV’s.In which case LPG is obviously the best and most practical option to fuel trucks with.Until such time as we can make hydrogen without turning the place into massive version of Chernobyl.At which point the same engines which run on LPG now will also run happily on hydrogen.While EV’s are obviously the same flawed pointless blind alley in that regard as they were from day 1.
To which the solution so far is operators and manufacturers blindly staying with dirty diesel and happily paying for it.In the form of all the Euro 6 emissions bollox let alone the £ 1 + per litre pump price of the stuff added to it.
. When everyone is driving around in an EV and TFL sees their ULEZ gravy train judder to a halt, I’ll bet my house that the first thing to happen will be the CC zone gets extended to the N & S Circular.
