Winseer:
“Raising the Pay” - already isn’t working is it?
Can’t get bums on seats for £20ph+ RIGHT NOW…
I’d argue that the rate needs to be enshrined in a quality full timer’s contract with family-friendly hours. Eg. 4x10 hour fixed shifts, available on comfortable start times agreed at the outset with the incoming driver, no Graveyard or Stupid O clock start times ever again…
Personally I think that is the key. £20 an hour is above what they need to offer in pay to secure interest from workers. It’s the hours and contracts they need to tackle, and workers need to understand that these increases and improvements are permanent, not just a temporary charade whilst the employers are over a barrel.
[…]
It’ll work for about a week, maybe two… Then the drivers who got their first bonus will simply be back off to agencyland for the now £30+ rates gettable there, assuming there isn’t a complete financial Crash this coming Christmas…
“Could go either way” I reckon at present…
It certainly should be interesting. I think what we may see is a reduction in the amount of Christmas fripperies and tat being transported.
I think in the long term we’ll also see the peak seasons start to smooth out, as firms know that they can get drivers in January and February for example, but can’t get them in December, so they’ll rearrange transportation to make use of traditional quiet periods, and also start building up warehouse stocks ahead of time to cope with peaks, and abolish “just in time” methods.
Rjan:
I think in the long term we’ll also see the peak seasons start to smooth out, as firms know that they can get drivers in January and February for example, but can’t get them in December, so they’ll rearrange transportation to make use of traditional quiet periods, and also start building up warehouse stocks ahead of time to cope with peaks, and abolish “just in time” methods.
They already do. The “Christmas rush” and dead Jan, Feb, March hasn’t been a thing for well over a decade. Work is available all year round now at most places.
Well having seen a second advert for a class two driver this morning, direct employment - not agency, just like the one for a completely different company last week and again for the mind blowing sum of £9 hour, yep 11p hour more than minimum wage, then I fail to see how the RHA is going to get those operators that are so far detached from the real world, to get drivers bums on seats?
Unless my maths is wrong, that extra £4.40 week (then minus tax and NI) equates to just over hundred pounds per year in the drivers pocket, for an investment in getting a license that would take well over a decade to get a return on at those rates.
Money is one thing, but not quite sure how the RHA are going to sort the scourge of the bad agencies out there, the incompetent traffic operators, the gobby shunters, the unpleasant forklift drivers, DVSA and other folks out there that make the driving life such utter joy. All safe in the knowledge that if away from base, the new drivers will have such bliss exploring the surrounding area trying to park up somewhere for the night, to then get backlash for wasting diesel.
For some reason, I see an analogy between the army recruitment campaigns for bright new careers and someone getting returned from duty with bits missing, wondering why they didn’t do more research…
I started driving in the 60s when logbooks were filled in at the end of the week or in a layby because you were warned about a check down the road (about once a year). I worked three hours for a Pound, which was around the national average then.
Throughout my career, I stayed with the national average (± 10%) and never had a job that demanded more than 50 hours a week. I knew many drivers who left for more money and longer hours - they were often supporting ex-wives and children they never saw and paying for a house they didn’t live in.
For me, the main criterion for a new job was always the way management treated the drivers. I had a couple of jobs that lasted a week because of the way I was spoken to. Lots of high flown phrases in the advert and interview like “Drivers are our ambassadors” and “we run strictly to the letter of the law.” I guess that I was lucky, even in my two years as an agency driver - there was a list of firms I refused to go back to (and a couple who said they didn’t want me) but several who asked for me in particular.
Juddian:
They really don’t have a bloody clue, who the hell dreamed that lot of utterly pointless ■■■■■■■■ up.
Pay people a decent rate that doesn’t mean they need to work 1.7 weeks worth of hours for a weeks pay.
Treat them with respect if they’re competent.
Don’t tar good people with the same brush as the half wits you had to take on when you dumbed the job down because you actually believed you own bullshine that top class drivers were queueing up to work for you.
Come to some agreements about shift start times and days/hours of work, drivers are not robots they are individuals who have likes and preferences, better to have people happy on the shifts they are covering.
Treat them as you would expect them to be treated if the reverse was the case, please and thankyou go a long way.
Be supportive, if the delivery point mess your drivers about deal with it.
Provide proepr training on vehicles, don’t just throw the keys and assume the driver, who may never have seen the vehicle type before, is going to self familiarise in 2 minutes and be out the gate in the 18 mins you foolishly think checks etc can bo completed in.
Lastly, stop with this issuing a different vehicle every day, if you have regular drivers issue them a vehicle, ok others will drive it when off shift but you get the best from drivers who are allowed to take a pride in their work and vehicle, issuing good reliable people with some battered smoked in wreck whilst you hand the keys over to brand new high spec tackle to some tramp lookandsmellalike agency bod won’t get you the cooperation you want.
Also with the last point provide equipment for washing of vehicles and the necssary to keep the interiors and windows clean.
Bloody hell Juddian! That’s a bit too much common sense for one night! Bloody well said and all of it so simple to actually do!
How can anyone trust a rate for “per shift” when you just knooowww it’ll end up being 12-15 hour shifts for 8 hours pay…
How can anyone trust a “including rolled up holiday” rate, or “Umbrella rate” or even “Ltd rate” when they then go and spoil it by saying OTE £1256 per week - IF a week consisted of Bank Holiday Night Shifts - which it bloody well never does?
How can anyone trust an outfit that says “all shifts available across all start times” - when in fact, the blue eyed boys snap up what few godly start times there might have been, with the rest of the hapless applicants being palmed off with Graveyard Shifts or Nowt - once the time and money wasting assessment has been done?
How can anyone trust a full time yard that barks “We are a family business that cares” - which is just an excuse to palm off applicants with near NMW pay " 'cos times are 'ard"… (I think they’ve been hard for the past lifetime or so… Was there ever a firm that said “Hey staff, we’ve just had a cracking year, so here’s a one-off 25% pay rise on your BASIC - You’ve earned it!”…
Winseer:
How can anyone trust a rate for “per shift” when you just knooowww it’ll end up being 12-15 hour shifts for 8 hours pay…
You CAN get this to work very much in your favour, but you have to be on the ball and watch them like a hawk as they WILL take the ■■■■ if you don’t stand your ground. I’m probably one of the LEAST likely people to ever accept a shift rate because I’m a cynical [zb] and know that THEY want shift rates usually so that they can squeeze an extra pound of flesh out of you without having to pay you any extra wonga. I would rather stick to an hourly rate, even if it’s slightly lower than the equivalent shift rate per ‘expected’ hours, because if I get held up somewhere I know I can bill them for however many hours the job has taken.
The place I’m driving for now started as hourly rate but he kept mithering me wanting to do it on a shift rate so I very reluctantly agreed, knowing what the work was and how long it took, but made it clear it was based on 8 hours. He replied “well yeah, 8 to 10 hours”. No! EIGHT hours, not NINE, not [zb] TEN ! “Well, see how you go on”. No! EIGHT [zb] hours ! The first couple of weeks it was 8 hours and I was actually done in about 7 to 7.5 so worked out okay, but then it crept up to 9 hours, then the “just nip” and do a couple of collections for me before your run so ended up being 12 hours. I did 3 days of that then told him that I was changing back to charging him by the hour from next week because of the hours I was doing. Unsurprisingly, he didn’t fancy that and promised me I was back on my ‘usual’ run from next week and that’s mostly what he’s kept me on, although I do get some 8.5 to 9hr runs from time to time which I make sure he knows are over my time and have a little whinge about, but the truth is that these balance out the 7hr runs, which I know he knows, and he knows I know .
weeto:
But none of the points mention better wages or terms and conditions, which could possibly help their members to encourage non driving HGV licence holders back on the road.
I have no intention of driving a truck for the hourly rate of £9-10 per hour that is being offered in my area.
The RHA’s 12-point plan covers the following:
Include HGV drivers on Government’s Skilled Worker Shortage Occupation List
Coronavirus recovery - a Seasonal Visa Scheme for qualified HGV drivers
Continued priority driving tests for HGV drivers
Establish a ‘Return to HGV Driving’ scheme
Better promotion of the job and the sector as a whole
Apprenticeship funding gap for C+E drivers in England and Wales
Apprenticeships for Class C drivers
A SME-focussed HGV driver training scheme HGV independent training loan scheme
An independent HGV independent training loan scheme
Other training schemes – DWP pilots/Road to Logistics
Increase productivity of the road network
Improve site productivity and the treatment of drivers at collection and delivery points
The RHA do not represent drivers in any way shape or form. They are merely lobbyists for haulage companies to flood the market with as much cheap Labour as possible in an attempt to keep wages suppressed. The only long term solution is to rewrite the rule book to protect hgv drivers from being persecuted to ensure a reasonable worklife balance.
We have lost approx 50 drivers over the course of this year and the number is increasing each week. It’s time for a change, in fact it’s been time for a change for a long time. Less hours less regulation, scrap the useless cpc, and better remuneration will sort out the shortage. I won’t hold my breath though.
You will be given an uncomfortable “Day Chair” so you cannot get any kip in it. “Sleeping on your desk” - mind the sharp pointed objects that are bolted to the table, and are likely to give you as good a kip as a Fakir might expect…
The only people who take any notice of the RHA are the media when they want a quote from an organisation that they THINK represents the industry.
I’ve never seen the RHA say anything I agreed with.
It’s not the hauliers fault or agencys fault you worked for peanuts or rates were bad, that’s if your in that category
It’s the drivers fault, and always was and always will be
In this day and age it’s hard to believe that the industry hasn’t got something that unites it together, but even then you would still get the people who work for below minimum wage after you work out the hours
It’s a one for all and all for one, always has been and always will be
What’s happening now is a blip the same as other things involved with Brexit
It won’t last and when they have to bow to supply it will be a lot worse than before Brexit
They will flood the place from anywhere they can get them, and for10 quid a hour,
Nothing surer
the maoster:
I don’t believe that Brexit is the cause of the driver shortage, nor Covid. I don’t even think that IR35 is the cause, although it may very well be the straw that broke the camels back.
The simple fact is that lorry driving is a deeply unattractive career choice. It’s changed from a job which was admittedly challenging but ultimately rewarding into a bloody endurance test, nothing more, nothing less. Grown men don’t appreciate being talked down to by snot nosed kids with an ology in logistics, the type of snivelling little sods who replaced life long transport operators with a wealth of experience. It’s been a steep downward slope for the last 20 or 30 years bringing us to the point where we are now.
The transport industry is finally reaping what it has sown.
I make you right. I found this article from Jan, 2016 very interesting. The figures are quite amazing:
Interesting read, as are a lot of the comments.
This guy got it spot on, the comment written in January 2016 warning that if transport bosses thought there was a driver shortage then, just wait and see what it’s like in 5 years time. That 5 years time is NOW!
richard buck
January 31, 2016 at 2:18 pm
I have 7 mounths to if wanted retirement but will work on but not in this industry ive had 20 years of arrogant managers that take drivers for granted that think we are there for there disposal no mater what hours we have done to get the job done and the famous sayin from traffic clerks when you say iam goin home now but we need this run doin and you can do 15 hours and if you don’t like the job why don’t you leave it well my anser to that now is don’t worry I am goin to and a message to traffic managers you think theres a driver shortage now just waite and see what its goin to be like in 5 years time I don’t think this industry will ever recover you have taken advantage for far to long and now you can reap what you have sown utter disregaurds towards h g v drivers
SHYTOT:
Drivers can not moan about hours because they are masters at making an 8 hour shift into 15 hours
Really?
You mean those of us who actually do a vehicle check, that actualy strap down a load and drive to the vehicle speed limits instead of cowboying around the highways like some bullying crazy crack head driving in effect a people killer.
Sure we are responsible for the idiotic car drivers who drive at 40-45mph in motorway 50mph roadwork zones which succeeds them busting a gut to overtake you in the 800m to 200m approach zone, who cant get into the nearside lane on approach to such works thus causing temporary gridlock whilst the whole shebang comes to an unneccessary stop. Oh and the goons who block up a roundabout so nobody can move onto it even if going in a totally different direction to the hold up. Or the Richard heads who dont realise that driving down a slip road does not mean you have right of way over those on the highway you are joining.
Then there are the warehouse staff and planners who think you should drive to make up the time they’ve lost due to some other issue. Cue parcel i.e cowboy operators. Yeah we could go on…
weeto:
Include HGV drivers on Government’s Skilled Worker Shortage Occupation List
That sums it up . Get drivers on the skills shortage list so we can open the floodgates to cheap labour so they can drive wages into the ground and protect their profits and shareholders . Not one single F*&k given for the working man trying to make a decent life for him/ herself . The sooner this country falls over the better .
Fully enforce trade descriptions legislation on Agency adverts. If they don’t have something - don’t put it in the advert!!
“Openness” - put “need not apply” clauses in the adverts, so that for example “Six points on lience is NOT ok - the Public won’t wear you killing one more cyclist, one more granny walking in front of bay at supermarket drop…” merely because you, as an employer thought it more important to put a flawed driver in the seat to save £2+ph on the hourly rate, or a foregner in the same seat - who just doesn’t know our roads well enough not to come to grief sooner or late…
Brandane62:
Another ex driver here, having given up the dream to change light bulbs in a local care home for a better hourly rate than I was getting for class 1 driving. Also saved myself the 25 mile each way commute at stupid o’clock. Anyway, I have kept my licence up to date, digi-card too, and did my 35 hours of on-line boredom to renew my CPC at the end of last year. Just in case…
January, I had a run-in with the care home management (see, it’s not just the haulage industry!) and I left. Now I’m reading about this “catastrophic HGV driver shortage” and started me thinking about coming back to it. Checking out local-ish driver vacancies I’m seeing class 1 days being advertised at as low as £9.50 per hour. No doubt they’ll have the balls to make it unpaid breaks too. The upper rates I am seeing are about £12 per hour on days.
So absolutely nothing has changed. There is no shortage of drivers; just a shortage of people willing to drop their pants for low wages. The haulage industry is a cesspit of it’s own making, and until it gets a grip on wages AND working conditions, nothing will ever change. Just pay reasonable wages and don’t think we all want to work maximum legal hours, then we might get somewhere. I would quite like to come back to driving, but I’m not a charity.
+1 The wages just aren’t cutting it, or the shift patterns, for me anyway. Tramped, Day Cabbed, Night Trunked for 27 year and can’t be bothered with 5 on 2 off anymore. Been maintaining a work family balance for the last 2 year so I’m one of the “Unused Class One / Current DCPC Holders” that will keep sitting in the cupboard for the Scottish rate of £9.85ph. If I was to get 4 on 4 off for 48hr week and double figures for an hourly rate then I’ll think about going back to it.
Why? The RHA are there for companies, not drivers. It’s all meaningless sound bites to look like they’re doing something. They don’t give a singular [zb] about truck drivers. They will do whatever the owners of Stobrat, DHL Logistics, Culina, Wincanton, XPO tell them to do to “solve” the bum on seat problem, which will be some brown envelopes to their cronies in government to create “exemptions” for Romanian’s and Pole’s to return here to work for peanuts. That’s how it works in the real world.
What evidence do you have to claim Eastern European hgv drivers work for peanuts?
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