chester1:
It’s a couple of times a year just get on with it. Why create a fuss over nothing. It’s not their problem you choose to change at work and have an hour round trip travel to work. A 9 hour break is legal so for them to ask you use it a couple of times a year is not too unreasonable. All our hours are at our prerogative to use as we please but it’s a company’s prerogative not to employ some who won’t use them with some flexibility.
So flexibility comes before road safety?
Because they’re sure to back him up if he has an accident due to fatigue eh?..NOT. …Get real.
Just because something is legal it doesn’t make it safe.
If he’s happy and willing to do it, and feels he does not need more than 6 hours kip, ok, still not 100% safe imo, but if he’s willing crack on.
Any reservations about safety he may have?..refuse.
I’m sure some hero will volunteer for it.
Please don’t come back at me with any ‘You’re in the wrong job’ crap, I’ve done all sorts of ridiculous bloody stunts as an owner driver in the distant past, driving when knackered etc, but for someone else?.. No chance.
By the way it actually is their problem,.as an employer they have a legal compulsory duty of care, not providing what he deems is sufficient rest, negates that duty.
chester1:
The bloke has been asked to start early and reduce a rest because its a bank holiday and it’s the only one to fall throughout the year with a working day in front of it and 3 days off after it. so it’s hardly a precedent for all the others is it.
Dammit - I must have missed that change in the law where they moved Christmas Day and New Years Day to Mondays…
Plus, to reiterate what others have said - this isn’t a mission-critical urgent change of start time to get the company out of a hole, this (unless we’re not being told the full story) appears to be an administrative convenience simply to allow the office staff an early finish for the Bank Holiday weekend.
chester1:
The bloke has been asked to start early and reduce a rest because its a bank holiday and it’s the only one to fall throughout the year with a working day in front of it and 3 days off after it. so it’s hardly a precedent for all the others is it.
Dammit - I must have missed that change in the law where they moved Christmas Day and New Years Day to Mondays…
Plus, to reiterate what others have said - this isn’t a mission-critical urgent change of start time to get the company out of a hole, this (unless we’re not being told the full story) appears to be an administrative convenience simply to allow the office staff an early finish for the Bank Holiday weekend.
chester1:
It’s a couple of times a year just get on with it. Why create a fuss over nothing. It’s not their problem you choose to change at work and have an hour round trip travel to work. A 9 hour break is legal so for them to ask you use it a couple of times a year is not too unreasonable. All our hours are at our prerogative to use as we please but it’s a company’s prerogative not to employ some who won’t use them with some flexibility.
So flexibility comes before road safety?
Because they’re sure to back him up if he has an accident due to fatigue eh?..NOT. …Get real.
Just because something is legal it doesn’t make it safe.
If he’s happy and willing to do it, and feels he does not need more than 6 hours kip, ok, still not 100% safe imo, but if he’s willing crack on.
Any reservations about safety he may have?..refuse.
I’m sure some hero will volunteer for it.
Please don’t come back at me with any ‘You’re in the wrong job’ crap, I’ve done all sorts of ridiculous bloody stunts as an owner driver in the distant past, driving when knackered etc, but for someone else?.. No chance.
By the way it actually is their problem,.as an employer they have a legal compulsory duty of care, not providing what he deems is sufficient rest, negates that duty.
See there it is again the word hero just for someone actually being flexible and helping the hand that feeds them. I can count on one hand the 9 hr rests I do a year and that’s probably in reality a ■■■■ site less than most of you guys sat there going on about it not being safe and saying stuff the firm.
chester1:
It’s a couple of times a year just get on with it. Why create a fuss over nothing. It’s not their problem you choose to change at work and have an hour round trip travel to work. A 9 hour break is legal so for them to ask you use it a couple of times a year is not too unreasonable. All our hours are at our prerogative to use as we please but it’s a company’s prerogative not to employ some who won’t use them with some flexibility.
So flexibility comes before road safety?
Because they’re sure to back him up if he has an accident due to fatigue eh?..NOT. …Get real.
Just because something is legal it doesn’t make it safe.
If he’s happy and willing to do it, and feels he does not need more than 6 hours kip, ok, still not 100% safe imo, but if he’s willing crack on.
Any reservations about safety he may have?..refuse.
I’m sure some hero will volunteer for it.
Please don’t come back at me with any ‘You’re in the wrong job’ crap, I’ve done all sorts of ridiculous bloody stunts as an owner driver in the distant past, driving when knackered etc, but for someone else?.. No chance.
By the way it actually is their problem,.as an employer they have a legal compulsory duty of care, not providing what he deems is sufficient rest, negates that duty.
See there it is again the word hero just for someone actually being flexible and helping the hand that feeds them. I can count on one hand the 9 hr rests I do a year and that’s probably in reality a ■■■■ site less than most of you guys sat there going on about it not being safe and saying stuff the firm.
So despite me and others explaining why 9 hour rests (especially after a 15 hour day ) including commute feed and wash time are not exactly conducive with alertness and road safety, you’re still advocating for and championing 9 hour rests, as being acceptable and totally safe in all cases.
Ok, but then you tell us you take up to max 5 a year (assuming you have all your fingers)…ok, got it.
Btw don’t assume anything,
9 hour rests whilst tramping,.and the same doing day work is a complete different kettle of kippers.
My 9 hour rests are taken when they suit ME.
robroy:
My 9 hour rests are taken when they suit ME.
And rightly so. My answer to a request/demand for me to take a reduced rest is “are you paying me a night out to sleep in the truck in the yard?”. No-one has ever answered with a yes, so my next words are “see you at [current time+11 hrs] tomorrow!”.
On very rare occasions where a usually straighforward job has FUBAR’d which couldn’t have reasonably been foreseen and run to a 15 hr day, I will usually agree to only having a 9 off at home so as to start back on schedule again the next day.
robroy:
My 9 hour rests are taken when they suit ME.
And rightly so. My answer to a request/demand for me to take a reduced rest is “are you paying me a night out to sleep in the truck in the yard?”. No-one has ever answered with a yes, so my next words are “see you at [current time+11 hrs] tomorrow!”.
On very rare occasions where a usually straighforward job has FUBAR’d which couldn’t have reasonably been foreseen and run to a 15 hr day, I will usually agree to only having a 9 off at home so as to start back on schedule again the next day.
If I was doing days, I wouldn’t be having 9 at all when that included a commute etc.
As I said as a tramper it’s different, but even so I ain’t keen.
Being a complete arse admittedly over stuff like this… if I’m asked (or worse attempted to be told) I won’t, (unless I work for a good firm who appreciates me and treats me as a grown up that is, the type of which I have done in the past, …not so much at present)
I aint saying I don’t do them, cos I do…but only if as I say, it suits for one reason or another.
robroy:
My 9 hour rests are taken when they suit ME.
[=“DCPCFML”] quote]
On very rare occasions where a usually straighforward job has FUBAR’d which couldn’t have reasonably been foreseen and run to a 15 hr day, I will usually agree to only having a 9 off at home so as to start back on schedule again the next day.
If you’ve worked a 15hr day, then you’re considered as having a 9hr break, regardless as to what time you start back.
robroy:
My 9 hour rests are taken when they suit ME.
[=“DCPCFML”] quote]
On very rare occasions where a usually straighforward job has FUBAR’d which couldn’t have reasonably been foreseen and run to a 15 hr day, I will usually agree to only having a 9 off at home so as to start back on schedule again the next day.
If you’ve worked a 15hr day, then you’re considered as having a 9hr break, regardless as to what time you start back.
I’m not sure what your point is? I never said anything to the contrary.
I’m stuggling to remember exactly but I think when the tacho first came in at around 1980 there was a reduced rest period, but it could only be taken if away from base - 8hrs? I do know that there was a 280 mile/ 450km driving limit each day.
cav551:
I’m stuggling to remember exactly but I think when the tacho first came in at around 1980 there was a reduced rest period, but it could only be taken if away from base - 8hrs? I do know that there was a 280 mile/ 450km driving limit each day.
That 280 mile / 450 km limit IIRC was for motors still not fitted with a tachograph.
cav551:
I’m stuggling to remember exactly but I think when the tacho first came in at around 1980 there was a reduced rest period, but it could only be taken if away from base - 8hrs? I do know that there was a 280 mile/ 450km driving limit each day.
The reduced rest was only away from base at first, I’m sure you’re correct there.
Was it 8? An 8 could be taken with a 4off during the day, I think.
But was it 9 otherwise?
And on earlier rules the daily rest didn’t reset the driving time, so there were cases of 10 being exceeded within 24, split over 2 days.
[/quote]
If you’ve worked a 15hr day, then you’re considered as having a 9hr break, regardless as to what time you start back.
[/quote]
Exactly, a 15 hour day is not mentioned in the driving rules, it how many hours rest you get in one block within the 24hr period starting when you clocked on that counts
if you work 3 hours, have 9 hours off and work 3 more, that’s classed as a reduced rest
same if you work 15 hours and take 11 off, its classed as a reduced rest
robroy:
My 9 hour rests are taken when they suit ME.
[=“DCPCFML”] quote]
On very rare occasions where a usually straighforward job has FUBAR’d which couldn’t have reasonably been foreseen and run to a 15 hr day, I will usually agree to only having a 9 off at home so as to start back on schedule again the next day.
If you’ve worked a 15hr day, then you’re considered as having a 9hr break, regardless as to what time you start back.
I’m not sure what your point is? I never said anything to the contrary.
Sorry, no point per say; it’s just a peeve of mine, and one whenever I get the opportunity, I like to champion that fact. There’s so many youngsters not comprehending the whole “24hr” thing. Thinking as long as they have 11+ hours break following their duty they haven’t taken a reduced break. I’m in no way insinuating that’s you. Friends?..
Totally forgotten I’d written this post. What a response!
To those saying it’s ‘just a couple of days a year’, it was every single bank holiday last year except for Xmas day, boxing day and New Year’s Day. It’s stated in my contract that the allocated days can basically be overridden ‘if business needs require’ and that’s what happened every time as realistically my employer always struggle to get everything done with us now being the biggest UK depot and recently taking on work from other depots.
I went along with it last year as I wanted the money and also because I knew the situation would improve once they had employed more drivers for my team (which they now have). I do generally like the job and am paid well, so I’m prepared to take the rough with the smooth, but don’t want to let them take the ■■■■ too much. I’m still in touch with a few drivers who went to work for a competitor and have several times been offered a job there on same hours/salary so am in a better situation now to not put up with ■■■■.
Despite being generally decent, my employer do have form for taking the ■■■■ with shift times. We were told that we were working the Sundays before Xmas Eve and NYE so that we didn’t have to work on those two days and finish at midnight. This all sounded good but we had to come in for 4am on the Sunday having worked till midnight on the Friday night. I was absolutely shattered as I just couldn’t sleep at all on the Saturday evening having only got to bed in the early hours of that same day. I was sat there at 11pm knowing I had to be up in three hours and not remotely sleepy - I only went in because I’d have had to work Xmas eve until midnight otherwise.
But in the recent situation I ended up going in at 11am. It actually says in my contract they need to give me four weeks notice of shift changes. This will never realistically happen, but telling me on the Wednesday that I was in 5-6 hours earlier on the Friday was no good - especially as they’d said I was on my usual route when I asked previously (without mentioning the time change).
I’d just taken my car in for service that day and had agreed to pick it up at 8am the following morning which is pretty early for me given my shift. I wasn’t best pleased to be told on that same day that I was effectively only going to be getting 5-6 hours sleep the following night as I would already knackered from getting my car. And all because the office staff wanted to get down the pub.
Most driving jobs aren’t fun when tired in my experience, but my Friday round involves lots of pedestrianised areas and tight manoeuvres down tiny Cotswold village streets with nightmare shop awnings and building edges sticking out everywhere. It’s defo not fun when shattered and the few bumps I’ve had have all been silly ones when tired where I momentarily forgot about a bollard etc below my line of sight which I knew was there and would usually have avoided.
…Get real. 
