You’ve misinterpreted the 1st response, what they’re saying is you don’t finish your shift, have 9 or 11 off, then start your weekly rest, so you’d need 9/11+24 = 33/35 hours off at least for a reduced weekly or 9/11+44=53/55 hours off for a full. You just have the 24 or 45 off
That’s doesn’t mean they’re agreeing with you that the rest after the last shift is irrelevant. Think of it as the daily rest and weekly rest starting at the same time and running side by side.
The regs don’t mention shift length, they just state the rest required in the 24 hour period from the start of the shift, it’s only the reduced daily rests of 9 hours that allows 15 hours of duty, so if you’ve used your 3 reduced, then by default you only have 13 hour duties until a weekly rest resets it
Sand Fisher:
Perhaps the concept is a tad difficult for you to understand since you are confusing rest with the stupid EU law. If you left an office job at 1800 and didn’t start work again until 0800 how many hours rest have you had? Well it is 14 isn’t it. And that is the whole point of this idiotic concept. I would argue that a LGV driver having 14 hours rest in the non EU drivers concept of the word ‘rest’ is a lot more refreshed than someone who did an 11 hour duty followed by a 9 hour rest. It isn’t the law that I am disagreeing with about it is the basis behind the law is stupid.
There’s nothing wrong with the premise that it’s all about how much rest someone has had in a 24 hour period.The stupid part of the EU regs is a) that they don’t enforce only a 12 hours minimum unbroken daily rest over that 24 hour period and b) they don’t clearly specify ‘weekly’ means the 7 day period following the end of the previous weekly rest in the same way as daily means the 24 hour period following the end of the previous daily rest period.
While what we don’t need is drivers working 4 15 hour shifts between weekly rests on the basis that they can have a good rest at the weekend.When 1 is 1 too many.
Sand Fisher:
Perhaps the concept is a tad difficult for you to understand since you are confusing rest with the stupid EU law. If you left an office job at 1800 and didn’t start work again until 0800 how many hours rest have you had? Well it is 14 isn’t it. And that is the whole point of this idiotic concept. I would argue that a LGV driver having 14 hours rest in the non EU drivers concept of the word ‘rest’ is a lot more refreshed than someone who did an 11 hour duty followed by a 9 hour rest. It isn’t the law that I am disagreeing with about it is the basis behind the law is stupid.
There’s nothing wrong with the premise that it’s all about how much rest someone has had in a 24 hour period.The stupid part of the EU regs is a) that they don’t enforce only a 12 hours minimum unbroken daily rest over that 24 hour period and b) they don’t clearly specify ‘weekly’ means the 7 day period following the end of the previous weekly rest in the same way as daily means the 24 hour period following the end of the previous daily rest period.
While what we don’t need is drivers working 4 15 hour shifts between weekly rests on the basis that they can have a good rest at the weekend.When 1 is 1 too many.
They do, you can have a max of 6x24 / 144 hours between weekly rests
Sand Fisher:
Awaiting a response from Vosa. It isn’t that I want to do it, just need to know what’s legal.
What seems utterly stupid to me is working a 15 hour day, you take say 14 hours off and it is considered a reduced daily rest. The law is crackers in that regard.
You’ve got a license, you should know what is legal. 15+14=29 and there’s only 24hrs in a day so how have you had 11hrs rest in a 24hr period?
Sand Fisher:
Awaiting a response from Vosa. It isn’t that I want to do it, just need to know what’s legal.
What seems utterly stupid to me is working a 15 hour day, you take say 14 hours off and it is considered a reduced daily rest. The law is crackers in that regard.
You’ve got a license, you should know what is legal. 15+14=29 and there’s only 24hrs in a day so how have you had 11hrs rest in a 24hr period?
But that is what I am saying is stupid. If you worked 45 mins drive from your work and did a 13 hour day then turned in 9 hours later I would argue that is more tiring than working 15 hours and then having say 14 hours rest. In the first example in a 24 hour period you have had 9 hours rest. In the second example in a 24 hour period you have had 9 hours rest…but you haven’t you have had 14 before starting work again.
Now in the former example that 9 comes down to 7.5 (1.5 hours driving to/from work) and that’s before having a meal and undressed, re-dressed and a wash/shower are deducted. Sleep probably less than 6 hours. In the second case you could easily get 8 hours sleep in. Not in the former.
You and others have confused ‘the regulations’ with what you have taken in terms of actual rest. And that is my point not what the regs are. It is a debate on rest not some EU convuluted version of rest, which of course is what the regs are.
Sand Fisher:
But that is what I am saying is stupid. If you worked 45 mins drive from your work and did a 13 hour day then turned in 9 hours later I would argue that is more tiring than working 15 hours and then having say 14 hours rest. In the first example in a 24 hour period you have had 9 hours rest. In the second example in a 24 hour period you have had 9 hours rest…but you haven’t you have had 14 before starting work again.
Now in the former example that 9 comes down to 7.5 (1.5 hours driving to/from work) and that’s before having a meal and undressed, re-dressed and a wash/shower are deducted. Sleep probably less than 6 hours. In the second case you could easily get 8 hours sleep in. Not in the former.
You and others have confused ‘the regulations’ with what you have taken in terms of actual rest. And that is my point not what the regs are. It is a debate on rest not some EU convuluted version of rest, which of course is what the regs are.
How does doing 4 15 hour shifts in a week as opposed to 3 help that situation ?.
Sand Fisher:
But that is what I am saying is stupid. If you worked 45 mins drive from your work and did a 13 hour day then turned in 9 hours later I would argue that is more tiring than working 15 hours and then having say 14 hours rest. In the first example in a 24 hour period you have had 9 hours rest. In the second example in a 24 hour period you have had 9 hours rest…but you haven’t you have had 14 before starting work again.
Now in the former example that 9 comes down to 7.5 (1.5 hours driving to/from work) and that’s before having a meal and undressed, re-dressed and a wash/shower are deducted. Sleep probably less than 6 hours. In the second case you could easily get 8 hours sleep in. Not in the former.
You and others have confused ‘the regulations’ with what you have taken in terms of actual rest. And that is my point not what the regs are. It is a debate on rest not some EU convuluted version of rest, which of course is what the regs are.
How does doing 4 15 hour shifts in a week as opposed to 3 help that situation ?.
Hang on a minute. I think you are confusing what I am arguing about. What I am saying is that if you have had 14 hours rest then you would be fresher than if you had had only 9.
The original post arose because what DVSA/Vosa were/had said was that your working week was between weekly rest periods. The extending a daily into a weekly rest than is at odds with that assessment because at the end of your last shift you still have to consider the length of your last shift and if that exceeded 13 hours and you already have had 3 reduced rests (either literally less than 11 hours turnaround or worked in excess of 13 hours) you still have to take that into consideration or you get an infringement. Thus in effect when you are having a weekly rest you are also having a daily rest for the first part of it at least. Odd but true.
