ROG:
There must be many LGV artic drivers that do not get into this situation so the question to them is -
How do you avoid it
Carryfast:
The way to avoid it is to use the extra sensory perception which everyone has to control the length of time of the green light phasing by thought power alone.If you think that the thing is going to change to amber/red while you’re getting across the junction it probably will.It’s just a matter of positive thinking.
Why did you not just say - Use ZEN technique 
ROG:
ROG:
There must be many LGV artic drivers that do not get into this situation so the question to them is -
How do you avoid itCarryfast:
The way to avoid it is to use the extra sensory perception which everyone has to control the length of time of the green light phasing by thought power alone.If you think that the thing is going to change to amber/red while you’re getting across the junction it probably will.It’s just a matter of positive thinking.Why did you not just say - Use ZEN technique
They say that only works with the Japanese lights ROG because they’ve made them work from side to side instead of up and down.But even if you don’t get done for the lights they’d probably get you for not being in full control of the vehicle at some point as you’re sitting there in a trance meditating through each set of lights.
ROG:
Driveroneuk:
I’d be interested in your ideas on that one Rog, especially with specific regard to the junction i described above.That one is a little unique as the driver starts going over the stop line whilst the lights are on green and not amber.
The law states that if the stop line has been crossed then a driver can proceed if safe to do so.The other cases refer to crossing the stop line when the lights are on amber.
Sorry, but that doesn’t match the quote you posted earlier:
I drive an articulated vehicle. Quite often, when I approach the lights they are green, but by the time by vehicle is through, they have changed to red. There is nothing I can do because of the length of the vehicle. Why should I be prosecuted?
If the red light is not showing when the front of the vehicle crosses the line, but is illuminated before the rest of the vehicle has passed, an offence is committed. The rules state that it is your obligation as a driver to ensure that the whole of the vehicle can pass on green. If it cannot, you should not proceed.
So, which is it? If i cross the stop line on green, yet the lights change to red before the rear of the trailer clears the line, am i going to get prosecuted or not?
if you get the NIP you can appeal against it, it would depend on the magistrate and how road savvy they are whether you get points and a fine or not.
i know of a driver who sucessfully appealed against a red light camera on the A419 at Blunsdon Hill before they built the bypass…his arguement was that the front of the vehicle had passed the lights on green and that obviously the trailer hadn’t!!!..a few weeks prior he’d had a woman run into the back of him as he jammed on the brakes at the same set of lights…its always worth appealing i reckon if you genuinely did pass them on green because of the length of the vehicle…cause quite honestly are you expected to stop halfway over a junction just cause the lights have turned red and your not clear of it■■?..i’ll try find out the exact details and post at a later date.
Bikemonkey:
i know of a driver who sucessfully appealed against a red light camera on the A419 at Blunsdon Hill before they built the bypass…his arguement was that the front of the vehicle had passed the lights on green and that obviously the trailer hadn’t!!!..a few weeks prior he’d had a woman run into the back of him as he jammed on the brakes at the same set of lights…its always worth appealing i reckon if you genuinely did pass them on green because of the length of the vehicle…cause quite honestly are you expected to stop halfway over a junction just cause the lights have turned red and your not clear of it■■?..i’ll try find out the exact details and post at a later date.
Must have been going quite slow for the front to go over the stop line on green and for the rear to go over it on red…
I got a letter over this. I was going up a dual carriage away from the Liverpool dock road, a bus was turning left in front of me and I pulled out into the outside lane as he was taking an age to turn left and half way through the junction the camera flashed me. I got a letter a week later saying I was caught doing 21 mph through a red light. I wrote back and explained the situation. I pointed out that the camera was 40 foot from the traffic light and the bus labouring as it turned, I said it was impossible for that camera to take a pic of my reg on the back of the trailer unless i was already across the junction and also pointed out that i was flashed doing 21 mph and if I had have gone through the red light then I would have been blocked by other cars from the other directions at that speed as I was fully loaded and going up the incline so there wouldn’t be any miraculous acceleration from me. They never replied and i never heard no more about it. They never reply when they are wrong. You should be ok
ROG:
Bikemonkey:
i know of a driver who sucessfully appealed against a red light camera on the A419 at Blunsdon Hill before they built the bypass…his arguement was that the front of the vehicle had passed the lights on green and that obviously the trailer hadn’t!!!..a few weeks prior he’d had a woman run into the back of him as he jammed on the brakes at the same set of lights…its always worth appealing i reckon if you genuinely did pass them on green because of the length of the vehicle…cause quite honestly are you expected to stop halfway over a junction just cause the lights have turned red and your not clear of it■■?..i’ll try find out the exact details and post at a later date.Must have been going quite slow for the front to go over the stop line on green and for the rear to go over it on red…
There’s lots of junctions that are big enough to catch any type of vehicle between crossing the line on the green and the lights changing to amber/red before the vehicle has cleared the junction it happens all the time at a junction near hear on a cross roads between a single carriageway and a dual carriageway in which the junction has to be of the width to suit the width of the six lane dual carriageway.There’s plenty like that on the North Circ too.It’s no good trying to go through them quickly either because they’ve often also got pedestrians crossing on the same lights with all of the issues of that needing to be considered.It takes almost 5 seconds to travel the distance of the junction at a safe speed.There’s also a lot of confusion about the definition of the amber light.It is legal to go through on amber and it’s that light wich is there to warn you to stop you’re not supposed to try to second guess the green change times by treating a stale green as an amber or by trying to guess the change time if you’ve crossed the line on green.If the camera has’nt actually caught the front of the vehicle crossing on red then there should’nt be a case for prosecution.
5 seconds !! - that would be very slow
We are talking about the stop line only and not actually being in the junction
ROG:
5 seconds !! - that would be very slowWe are talking about the stop line only and not actually being in the junction
If it’s just a case of the stop line being crossed and not one of being in the process of being in the junction then it seems obvious that there should’nt be an issue in the case of a camera catching the back end of any vehicle which is actually wholly or partly in the junction.The camera would only be triggered as the vehicle crosses the line on red in that case but if you look at how they are positioned they actually get triggered by any vehicle which happens to be in the process of travelling through the junction when the light is at red? and I’m sure that’s the photo which you’d get back if you’re unlucky enough to be prosecuted.For it to just be the line which matters then the camera should be facing across the line like the photo finish on a horse race and you’d only get a camera prosecution in the case of where the front bumper was shown to have been crossing the line on a red signal with the shot taken from the side directly in relation to the stop line?.But I meant almost 5 seconds being needed for the whole length of the vehicle to travel the whole distance between the stop line and to clear the junction over the distance of a six lane wide road junction width also allowing for pedestrians who often don’t wait for any signal and often happily just walk across the road in front of you when you’ve gone through on green.
Carryfast:
If it’s just a case of the stop line being crossed and not one of being in the process of being in the junction then it seems obvious that there should’nt be an issue in the case of a camera catching the back end of any vehicle which is actually wholly or partly in the junction.The camera would only be triggered as the vehicle crosses the line on red in that case but if you look at how they are positioned they actually get triggered by any vehicle which happens to be in the process of travelling through the junction when the light is at red? and I’m sure that’s the photo which you’d get back if you’re unlucky enough to be prosecuted.For it to just be the line which matters then the camera should be facing across the line
It would be a bit odd if that was the case …
Any vehicle that legally went over the stop line but was waiting to turn right in a junction (prevented by oncoming traffic) may well be in the junction when the lights went to red !!
ROG:
5 seconds !! - that would be very slowWe are talking about the stop line only and not actually being in the junction
So what would you say it takes a vehicle at 43500kgs, from an almost standing start* to travel the distance involved ?
Let’s assume you are third in line, the two vehicles in front being cars. Lights change to green and the line of traffic moves forward.
ROG:
Carryfast:
If it’s just a case of the stop line being crossed and not one of being in the process of being in the junction then it seems obvious that there should’nt be an issue in the case of a camera catching the back end of any vehicle which is actually wholly or partly in the junction.The camera would only be triggered as the vehicle crosses the line on red in that case but if you look at how they are positioned they actually get triggered by any vehicle which happens to be in the process of travelling through the junction when the light is at red? and I’m sure that’s the photo which you’d get back if you’re unlucky enough to be prosecuted.For it to just be the line which matters then the camera should be facing across the lineIt would be a bit odd if that was the case …
Any vehicle that legally went over the stop line but was waiting to turn right in a junction (prevented by oncoming traffic) may well be in the junction when the lights went to red !!
But could a stationary vehicle waiting to turn right trigger a red light controlled gatso considering that it’s probably like all the others in only detecting movement at a pre determined speed? and the Gatso light camera which we’ve got on that big junction locally here could’nt be trigerred in that way because the right turn has it’s own filter light and a seperate barriered right hand turn only lane.Maybe they don’t put traffic light controlled cameras on junctions without right hand turn filter lights?.Interesting question though ROG.But the fact is why don’t they use a cross facing camera in that case only triggered as a vehicle’s front bumper crosses the stop line on red.
We need to clarify two things here -
What the law is in regard to the stop line 
What is the camera set up to detect
ROG:
We need to clarify two things here -What the law is in regard to the stop line
What is the camera set up to detect
Stop and do not cross the line when red light is showing?
As it stands the cameras seem to be set up in a way where they can’t differentiate where an offence is being committed and where it is’nt.
The cameras are setup to take photos of whatever crosses the induction loop when the lights are red. The loop does not extend right across the road if there is a right hand turn filter lane so anyone using that lane will not set the camera off.
bubsy06:
The cameras are setup to take photos of whatever crosses the induction loop when the lights are red. The loop does not extend right across the road if there is a right hand turn filter lane so anyone using that lane will not set the camera off.
Is the induction loop in the same place as the stop line?
ROG:
bubsy06:
The cameras are setup to take photos of whatever crosses the induction loop when the lights are red. The loop does not extend right across the road if there is a right hand turn filter lane so anyone using that lane will not set the camera off.Is the induction loop in the same place as the stop line?
no it is after the stop line by about 10"
bubsy06:
it is after the stop line by about 10"
Hmmm… that could be to give a little leeway for those who stop a little too far or could catch those who did make it across before it turned red… it would also depend if there was a slight time delay in it’s activation after the light goes to red…
so many possibilities… needing answers
ROG:
bubsy06:
it is after the stop line by about 10"Hmmm… that could be to give a little leeway for those who stop a little too far or could catch those who did make it across before it turned red… it would also depend if there was a slight time delay in it’s activation after the light goes to red…
so many possibilities… needing answers
It activates as soon as the red light comes on, if you cross it then goodbye £60 hello 3 points, simples. unless the 2 photos show that you were not moving then you might get away with it.
