Question from a non-lorry driver

cavalier · 7 September 2016 21:39

Freight Dog:
It’s not 1980s but 1930s America in the dust bowl, but for inspiration on describing lorries and setting the atmospher surrounding them, check out the opening scene of book The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck. Really good.

With trucks, the big descriptive things having worked around them are -

diesel and oil fumes, canvas mustiness Dipper mentioned

oil grease and grime on surfaces, splintered wooden trailer bed, hard cold steel trailer frame

rumbling exhaust note

hissing air brakes and hissing of the splitter gear box and range changer

They’re tactile, noisy almost visceral things - they make a good thing to describe in setting a scene with details.

Thank you very much, that’s brilliant to know – you can never have too much detail!!

armagedon · 7 September 2016 22:07

Let’s see if the old ■■■■ can remember rope n’ sheeted loads from Europe…Potatoes from Brittany…onions from Spain…seaweed fertiliser from France…
…and our friends working for Mesquen in Brittany well they soon learned how to rope n’ sheet and the dolly knot was well used in Portugal well it
would be since they were and are a seafaring nation.

ezydriver · 7 September 2016 23:11

Cavalier:
Thank you very much, it’s every writer’s most important aim for their work to be believable to the experts.

I agree. Listening to Radio 4 one night, I heard a passage from Book at Bedtime (although it was my morning, because I work nights). I remember one of the first lines I heard: “she sat at the kerbside listening to the whooshes coming from the passing lorries’ hydraulics”. This was obviously a reference to lorry air brakes, and I recognised instantly the author hadn’t done her research. If she had, she’d have said pneumatics, not hydraulics, as pneumatics concern air, and hydraulics concern fluid. I’m sure power steering doesn’t whoosh. As a reader, I lost respect for her.

captain_caveman_76 · 7 September 2016 23:14

Freight Dog:
It’s not 1980s but 1930s America in the dust bowl, but for inspiration on describing lorries and setting the atmospher surrounding them, check out the opening scene of book The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck. Really good.

With trucks, the big descriptive things having worked around them are -

diesel and oil fumes, canvas mustiness Dipper mentioned

oil grease and grime on surfaces, splintered wooden trailer bed, hard cold steel trailer frame

rumbling exhaust note

hissing air brakes and hissing of the splitter gear box and range changer

They’re tactile, noisy almost visceral things - they make a good thing to describe in setting a scene with details.

Not to mention the whoosh as cars overtake you, the hum of tyres on tarmac or the rhythm of the rear wheels following the front ones as you drive along a motorway made of concrete slabs. DUNK DUNK, dunk-dunk, DUNK-DUNK,dunk dunk.

Good luck with your novel Cavalier, let us know when you’ve finished it.

Cavey.

cav551 · 8 September 2016 08:14

Funny what you forget from past years.

The firm I worked for in the early 1980s hauled a lot of unaccompanied sheeted flat trailers out of Folkestone, it was probably 70% of our work nearly all that work being via Maenhout in Belgium. I recall having to re-rope trailers in the compound in Folkestone at night no-one ever queried what I was doing. This company shipped out trailers stacked three high for loading, but in the alternative world the OP has created, there would be no reason why traffic could not be in the opposite direction.

I am sure if the OP puts a similar query on the Old timers section of the forum for whatever details he needs clarifying about loading and what vehicles sounded like in motion etc., he will find at least something helpful. At the very least he will get some comment about drivers carrying their own rear light lenses and bulbs to fit to unaccompanied trailers. He will also I hope get some comment about unaccompanied freight. The one thing I clearly recall that is absent these days, but very noticeable then was the pungent smell of burning oil in the exhaust from worn out diesel engines when on the over-run going down motorway banks.

reef · 8 September 2016 12:25

cav551:
I am sure if the OP puts a similar query on the Old timers section of the forum for whatever details he needs clarifying about loading and what vehicles sounded like in motion etc., he will find at least something helpful. At the very least he will get some comment about drivers carrying their own rear light lenses and bulbs to fit to unaccompanied trailers. He will also I hope get some comment about unaccompanied freight. The one thing I clearly recall that is absent these days, but very noticeable then was the pungent smell of burning oil in the exhaust from worn out diesel engines when on the over-run going down motorway banks.

“He” is a “She” btw

del949 · 8 September 2016 13:48

I think that around that time, Ashworths of Bradford were still taking farm tractors and combines from International Harvesters at
Doncaster abroad. A tractor cab could be a decent hide away.

cavalier · 9 September 2016 19:14

Armagedon:
Let’s see if the old ■■■■ can remember rope n’ sheeted loads from Europe…Potatoes from Brittany…onions from Spain…seaweed fertiliser from France…
…and our friends working for Mesquen in Brittany well they soon learned how to rope n’ sheet and the dolly knot was well used in Portugal well it
would be since they were and are a seafaring nation.

Thank you – then hopefully no driver will take issue with what I write. And if they do, I can always send them here…

ezydriver:
I agree. Listening to Radio 4 one night, I heard a passage from Book at Bedtime (although it was my morning, because I work nights). I remember one of the first lines I heard: “she sat at the kerbside listening to the whooshes coming from the passing lorries’ hydraulics”. This was obviously a reference to lorry air brakes, and I recognised instantly the author hadn’t done her research. If she had, she’d have said pneumatics, not hydraulics, as pneumatics concern air, and hydraulics concern fluid. I’m sure power steering doesn’t whoosh. As a reader, I lost respect for her.

How embarrassing. And that’s why you always do your research.

Captain Caveman 76:
Not to mention the whoosh as cars overtake you, the hum of tyres on tarmac or the rhythm of the rear wheels following the front ones as you drive along a motorway made of concrete slabs. DUNK DUNK, dunk-dunk, DUNK-DUNK,dunk dunk.

Good luck with your novel Cavalier, let us know when you’ve finished it.

Cavey.

Thank you very much

cav551:
Funny what you forget from past years.

The firm I worked for in the early 1980s hauled a lot of unaccompanied sheeted flat trailers out of Folkestone, it was probably 70% of our work nearly all that work being via Maenhout in Belgium. I recall having to re-rope trailers in the compound in Folkestone at night no-one ever queried what I was doing. This company shipped out trailers stacked three high for loading, but in the alternative world the OP has created, there would be no reason why traffic could not be in the opposite direction.

I am sure if the OP puts a similar query on the Old timers section of the forum for whatever details he needs clarifying about loading and what vehicles sounded like in motion etc., he will find at least something helpful. At the very least he will get some comment about drivers carrying their own rear light lenses and bulbs to fit to unaccompanied trailers. He will also I hope get some comment about unaccompanied freight. The one thing I clearly recall that is absent these days, but very noticeable then was the pungent smell of burning oil in the exhaust from worn out diesel engines when on the over-run going down motorway banks.

I do have a few questions, especially about security, so it’s a great idea to post them there – thank you!

del949:
I think that around that time, Ashworths of Bradford were still taking farm tractors and combines from International Harvesters at
Doncaster abroad. A tractor cab could be a decent hide away.

Wow, tractors in Donny, that takes me back! International Harvesters was McCormick by the time I knew it, but what a blast from the past.
Anyway, though, thank you for the suggestion, but I think my heart belongs to the roped and sheeted trailer idea.

franglais · 10 September 2016 11:25

1980s equals tilts, mostly. Many of them had ladders or half ladders on headboard or allow the driver to get on top and roll/fold tilt sheet to allow crane loading. If no ladder, a scramble up the eyes for the strap that seals the corners is quite possible. Anyways, once our hero is on top of the trailer all it needs is a penknife and its easy to cut a hole in the roof. Easy to see from the top, yes, but not not regularly checked even in the days of the old "Avis De Passage" etc. Itd be obvious after tipping, but the hero could have exited before detection? There may well be room on top of the load to sleep and move around. Maybe even roomy enough for the acrobatics Dipper would have in mind! With ropes n sheets there is generally no free space between load and sheets.

cavalier · 10 September 2016 22:49

Franglais:
1980s equals tilts, mostly. Many of them had ladders or half ladders on headboard or allow the driver to get on top and roll/fold tilt sheet to allow crane loading. If no ladder, a scramble up the eyes for the strap that seals the corners is quite possible. Anyways, once our hero is on top of the trailer all it needs is a penknife and its easy to cut a hole in the roof. Easy to see from the top, yes, but not not regularly checked even in the days of the old "Avis De Passage" etc. Itd be obvious after tipping, but the hero could have exited before detection? There may well be room on top of the load to sleep and move around. Maybe even roomy enough for the acrobatics Dipper would have in mind! With ropes n sheets there is generally no free space between load and sheets.

Thank you very much, though as other members thought it was possible to have roped and sheeted trailers doing international work at that time, and that there could be enough room for someone to smuggle themselves inside, that’s the one for me – it just really suits the aesthetic. And from a more practical perspective, because my lad was being transported to prison, he literally had nothing else on him, so he’d need a lorry he could get into that didn’t require a knife or anything else!

lonewolf_yorks · 11 September 2016 23:13

One thing not pointed out as yet is that of course in the early 1980s the eastern bloc lads were pretty few and far between. Not like today. The iron curtain was still in operation. I never saw them use owt else than a tilt although a lot of them were wagon and drags. Pekaes or Hungarocamion anybody??

The flat, roped and sheeted trailer was very much a British thing. Although we certainly used to send them over unaccompanied from Ramsgate. And get them back in a right state. I can remember throwing ropes over on a windy dockside and having to turn the entire truck round to throw the ropes back over grrrr. You could have our hero sneaking into the docks to get onto an unaccompanied trailer.

Like the others though, the trailers we used on that time were 99℅ tilts. You could have slit the side to get in and cover up the slit with some similar coloured vinyl but that would display some preparation.

james_the_cat · 11 September 2016 23:37

Cavalier:

Franglais:
1980s equals tilts, mostly. Many of them had ladders or half ladders on headboard or allow the driver to get on top and roll/fold tilt sheet to allow crane loading. If no ladder, a scramble up the eyes for the strap that seals the corners is quite possible. Anyways, once our hero is on top of the trailer all it needs is a penknife and its easy to cut a hole in the roof. Easy to see from the top, yes, but not not regularly checked even in the days of the old "Avis De Passage" etc. Itd be obvious after tipping, but the hero could have exited before detection? There may well be room on top of the load to sleep and move around. Maybe even roomy enough for the acrobatics Dipper would have in mind! With ropes n sheets there is generally no free space between load and sheets.

Thank you very much, though as other members thought it was possible to have roped and sheeted trailers doing international work at that time, and that there could be enough room for someone to smuggle themselves inside, that’s the one for me – it just really suits the aesthetic. And from a more practical perspective, because my lad was being transported to prison, he literally had nothing else on him, so he’d need a lorry he could get into that didn’t require a knife or anything else!

Rope and sheeted loads were not shrink wrap tight with no space in underneath despite what people will tell you, anymore than they are on curtains or tilts. There were many many loads of odd shapes and sizes that had cavernous gaps in between under the tight sheets just as odd shaped loads exists today. Not all loads were uniform boxes that fitted together without gaps. Just look at the photo someone provided. They may look tight from the outside, but not from the inside.

Also, Rope and sheet continental did exist in the 70s and for reasons I’ve mentioned, would be more likely in your scenario where Europe developed more slowly post war. Bare in mind, rather missing the point of your story, the accounts of 1970s tilts are based on TIR transport that developed post war in a world that actually happened, not the different future post war in your book. Don’t worry, you’ve picked a fine choice. Let us know how it goes Cavalier.

franglais · 12 September 2016 08:28

If we’re talking the eighties then I think all the Polish trucks would have been Pekaes (PKS) state owned trucks. Always? double manned. Each keeping an eye on the other. To get your rope n sheet load maybe strip down the tilt trailer they’d have, load on summat tall, (cable drums?) and then sheet over the top. With the drums secured by chains only minimal ropes required affording entry. Gaps to hidebetween the drums. PKS were yellow and sign written so recognisably Polish. Does that tivk all your boxes?

cavalier · 12 September 2016 19:25

Lonewolf Yorks:
One thing not pointed out as yet is that of course in the early 1980s the eastern bloc lads were pretty few and far between. Not like today. The iron curtain was still in operation. I never saw them use owt else than a tilt although a lot of them were wagon and drags. Pekaes or Hungarocamion anybody??

The flat, roped and sheeted trailer was very much a British thing. Although we certainly used to send them over unaccompanied from Ramsgate. And get them back in a right state. I can remember throwing ropes over on a windy dockside and having to turn the entire truck round to throw the ropes back over grrrr. You could have our hero sneaking into the docks to get onto an unaccompanied trailer.

Like the others though, the trailers we used on that time were 99℅ tilts. You could have slit the side to get in and cover up the slit with some similar coloured vinyl but that would display some preparation.

Franglais:
If we’re talking the eighties then I think all the Polish trucks would have been Pekaes (PKS) state owned trucks. Always? double manned. Each keeping an eye on the other. To get your rope n sheet load maybe strip down the tilt trailer they’d have, load on summat tall, (cable drums?) and then sheet over the top. With the drums secured by chains only minimal ropes required affording entry. Gaps to hidebetween the drums. PKS were yellow and sign written so recognisably Polish. Does that tivk all your boxes?

Thank you, though it is an alternate history novel, so it doesn’t need to follow real life exactly – in this universe, Poland isn’t Communist, and in an alternate 20th century, it’s entirely possible they might use ordinary roped and sheeted.
Thanks very much for your suggestions, though, it’s really kind of you to spend the time thinking about it!

James the cat:
Rope and sheeted loads were not shrink wrap tight with no space in underneath despite what people will tell you, anymore than they are on curtains or tilts. There were many many loads of odd shapes and sizes that had cavernous gaps in between under the tight sheets just as odd shaped loads exists today. Not all loads were uniform boxes that fitted together without gaps. Just look at the photo someone provided. They may look tight from the outside, but not from the inside.

Also, Rope and sheet continental did exist in the 70s and for reasons I’ve mentioned, would be more likely in your scenario where Europe developed more slowly post war. Bare in mind, rather missing the point of your story, the accounts of 1970s tilts are based on TIR transport that developed post war in a world that actually happened, not the different future post war in your book. Don’t worry, you’ve picked a fine choice. Let us know how it goes Cavalier.

Thank you very much. I’ll definitely come back on if (or when, I hope) it gets published, and attach a photo of the credits at the beginning!