Would it be better without operator licensing?
Please give your reasons as it makes it more interesting. 
I’d be a hypocrite if I didn’t give my reason.
I think if operator licensing wasn’t the way things were done, more drivers would own their own vehicle and look after it better because it would be their own pride and joy. I beleive that if the MOT testing was made stringent enough that the larger companies would struggle to compete with drivers enthusiasm. (can it really be said that corporations have a genuine enthusiasm about the condition of their vehicles?).
Red Squirrel:
Would it be better without operator licensing?
Please give your reasons as it makes it more interesting.
Would what be better?
The Job and conditions for drivers? I Doubt It.
The haulage rates? Definitely not, They would be cut even further.
Access to the market? It is already too easy to get a licence, hence the reason there are so many lorries on the road. I could probably work out a scaled tariff that would get rid of the rate cutters.
1 - 10 vehicles = £5k for each licence
11 - 50 vehicles would cost £8k each
Over 50 would be at such a rate as to make the likes of Wincanton, DHL and Turners cringe when they take on a new contract, especially if it takes work from the 5k licence holders.
Green trucks would be charged accordingly 
Wheel Nut:
Red Squirrel:
Would it be better without operator licensing?
Please give your reasons as it makes it more interesting.Would what be better?
The Job and conditions for drivers? I Doubt It.
Wouldn’t drivers have more oppotunity to improve their conditions?
Wheel Nut:
The haulage rates? Definitely not, They would be cut even further.
Perhaps so, but perhaps a lot of middle men etc. would disappear, thus creating a saving.
Wheel Nut:
Access to the market? It is already too easy to get a licence, hence the reason there are so many lorries on the road. I could probably work out a scaled tariff that would get rid of the rate cutters.1 - 10 vehicles = £5k for each licence
11 - 50 vehicles would cost £8k each
Over 50 would be at such a rate as to make the likes of Wincanton, DHL and Turners cringe when they take on a new contract, especially if it takes work from the 5k licence holders.Green trucks would be charged accordingly
All very interesting and not the worst idea I have heard, but I disagree that it’s too easy to get a license (in the UK). Perhaps it’s too easy to import workers with a license however (who may have held it for some time).
I vote for the O licence system. I’ve worked in area’s where O licences were seen as an optional extra and it’s hard work to get the owners to spend the money to keep the trucks running let alone roadworthy. At least with an O licence they get their 6 weekly inspections.
Red Squirrel:
Wheel Nut:
Access to the market? It is already too easy to get a licence, hence the reason there are so many lorries on the road. I could probably work out a scaled tariff that would get rid of the rate cutters.1 - 10 vehicles = £5k for each licence
11 - 50 vehicles would cost £8k each
Over 50 would be at such a rate as to make the likes of Wincanton, DHL and Turners cringe when they take on a new contract, especially if it takes work from the 5k licence holders.Green trucks would be charged accordingly
All very interesting and not the worst idea I have heard, but I disagree that it’s too easy to get a license (in the UK). Perhaps it’s too easy to import workers with a license however (who may have held it for some time).
I retract my last comment as I think I misunderstood what wheelnut meant. I now take it that he meant it’s too easy to get an O-license (not a truck license which is harder than ever). On this I would agree and is part of the reason I think we’d be better off without operator licensing. If they’re not going to do it properly I think they needn’t as well bother.
No.
Every idiot out there would be getting hold of a truck and carving the rates up to get and keep, for a few weeks, their wheels rolling.
Conditions and earnings for drivers would decrease, those drivers that were employed but are now OD’s would be putting in a hell of a lot more hours for less money. Then at the weekend doing accounts and maybe working on the vehicle.
Red Squirrel:
I now take it that he meant it’s too easy to get an O-license (not a truck license which is harder than ever).
It’s not difficult to get a truck licence, you can go from car licence to C+E with a couple of dozen hours training, or less.
Coffeeholic:
No.Every idiot out there would be getting hold of a truck and carving the rates up to get and keep, for a few weeks, their wheels rolling.
Well I’d be gunning for the best rates I could get or else I wouldn’t bother - market forces.
And where did those drivers come from? Wouldn’t there be a shortfall somewhere else?
Coffeeholic:
Conditions and earnings for drivers would decrease, those drivers that were employed but are now OD’s would be putting in a hell of a lot more hours for less money. Then at the weekend doing accounts and maybe working on the vehicle.
What is to say that some drivers wouldn’t club together and find innovative solutions in what would be a changing economy? Truck companies existed before operator licensing, were they all completely unprofessional?
Coffeeholic:
Red Squirrel:
I now take it that he meant it’s too easy to get an O-license (not a truck license which is harder than ever).It’s not difficult to get a truck licence, you can go from car licence to C+E with a couple of dozen hours training, or less.
Compared to what?
You never used to have to take your test in a fully laden vehicle, you never used to have to do a driver CPC, you never used to have to do a class 2 before taking a class 1, you never used to have to take a theory test. In ye olde times of yore you never had to take a medical or so much as take a driving test and before that you didn’t even need a license as they still recognised the common law right to pass and repass without let or hindrance. It has never been harder to get a truck license anywhere in the world ever. Quote me one instance.
[edited to change the word instane to instance - shameful my spelling has become]
C+E driving licence is difficult but its not the same barrier to OD as the O licence.
O licence is significantly more expensive for a start.
It’s easy to spot a ■■■■■■’ van/pickup right? Take away O’Licensing and you’d get lorries running around in that state.
i’ve tick yes because i don’t agree with the way it is implemented.
there should be a two tier system.
-
you should be allowed to run up to say 3 vehicles without a cpc.
if you have your vehicles with full R+R, then there shouldn’t be any need to show thousands of pounds of dead money. -
a cpc holder should be required for larger companies, but only responsible for up to 15 vehicles.
Red Squirrel:
Coffeeholic:
No.Every idiot out there would be getting hold of a truck and carving the rates up to get and keep, for a few weeks, their wheels rolling.
Well I’d be gunning for the best rates I could get or else I wouldn’t bother - market forces.
And market forces would dictate you won’t get good rates because anyone who fancied giving it a go would just get any old truck and do the job you were gunning for the best rate on for next to nothing. It happens now with O licensing and it would be worse without it.
Red Squirrel:
And where did those drivers come from? Wouldn’t there be a shortfall somewhere else?
There’s far too many drivers at the moment as it is and with no O licensing meaning an increase in the number of people doing the job for next to nothing more firms would go to the wall so no shortfall.
Red Squirrel:
Coffeeholic:
Conditions and earnings for drivers would decrease, those drivers that were employed but are now OD’s would be putting in a hell of a lot more hours for less money. Then at the weekend doing accounts and maybe working on the vehicle.What is to say that some drivers wouldn’t club together and find innovative solutions in what would be a changing economy? Truck companies existed before operator licensing, were they all completely unprofessional?
No but it was different times way back then. Far less vehicles on the road for a start. There are already too many trucks and companies out there, which is why rates are as they are, but your idea would increase that number with an opposite effect on rates.
Red Squirrel:
Coffeeholic:
Red Squirrel:
I now take it that he meant it’s too easy to get an O-license (not a truck license which is harder than ever).It’s not difficult to get a truck licence, you can go from car licence to C+E with a couple of dozen hours training, or less.
Compared to what?
You never used to have to take your test in a fully laden vehicle, you never used to have to do a driver CPC, you never used to have to do a class 2 before taking a class 1, you never used to have to take a theory test. In ye olde times of yore you never had to take a medical or so much as take a driving test and before that you didn’t even need a license as they still recognised the common law right to pass and repass without let or hindrance. It has never been harder to get a truck license anywhere in the world ever. Quote me one instance.
I’m not sure what you want me to quote you? Doesn’t matter that you have a few more hoops to jump through than years ago it still isn’t hard to get a licence. You can go from car to C+E within a month or so, most of that is waiting for the DVLA to send your licence with the provisionals on it to you, and with not many hours training. My youngest son, now 20, did the C and then the C+E with about 20 hours training in total and passed both first time. There are plenty of countries in Europe where it requires far more training than in the UK to get the licence. Many countries have a minimum number of hours training you must clock up before even taking the test, far more than you can get away with here, and quite often there are a few days of classroom work involved, with tests. A lot of European countries, including Eastern ones, have had a DCPC type thing for many years and it’s far harder than the Mickey Mouse thing we now have.
Think it should be a free for all, to much red tape in this game. Get rid of tachos, vosa, tc’s, stupid speed limits, operating centres, 6 weekly inspections, tax on fuel plus the rest.
You have to have some sort of regulation as some people would just take the â– â– â– â– but perhaps the system needs updating.
Limeyphils comment about the finance is an interesting proposition.
If there were no O licenses, transport would be exactly the same as the courier / van sector. Every man and his dog with a bit of redundancy seems to think they can buy a van and set themselves up as an express transport company. Truth is, if you look at the forums for that sector, everyone’s chasing the same work and carving the rate up to nothing.
Derf:
If there were no O licenses, transport would be exactly the same as the courier / van sector. Every man and his dog with a bit of redundancy seems to think they can buy a van and set themselves up as an express transport company. Truth is, if you look at the forums for that sector, everyone’s chasing the same work and carving the rate up to nothing.
Good point, thankfully thats one thing we dont contend with that 
…
i can’t see a valid argument regarding rates, and o’licencing.
o’licencing in its’ present form just entangles every haulier in red tape, it has nothing whatsoever to do with rates.
the only way we could have a fair system would be to have legislation regarding the pricing of each load. this of course won’t happen, unless we go back to nationalisation. which is about the only way we can truly recover. this won’t happen either unless you all vote for the BNP. and of course, this won’t happen anytime soon.
so we are all [zb]ed.
Coffeeholic:
No.
Every idiot out there would be getting hold of a truck and carving the rates up to get and keep, for a few weeks, their wheels rolling.
That’s essentially what is happening now.
Those carving the rates are now led by very large concerns who appear to be
intent in driving each other and everyone else out of business.
The industry is overloaded with hauliers, the cake is of a fixed size and for one to increase
its share, another has to lose.
Most goods are being moved for less than the true cost of transporting them and in a very inefficient way,
highlighted by the various RDCs which regularly take hours to remove a handful of pallets.
I don’t remember the days of A,B and C licences but I understand that none could be obtained without proof of work,
and that most changed hands for a very large sum of money.
At least that system went some way towards keeping the number of hauliers in some kind of proportion to the amount of available work.
Again, I don’t remember it but I also understand that nationalised haulage worked quite well until some bright spark decided that each depot had to show a profit, so they all started loading their own trucks with premium outbound work and other depot’s lorries and their own were left with no backloads.
Far from tying the industry up in unnecessary red tape, O licensing in fact opened flood gates and let in the huge numbers of rate cutting individuals and companies who have made the industry the shark infested ocean it is today.
At least a reasonable degree of vehicle safety is maintained and most stick to the drivers hours rules, make no mistake, very few would bother if there were no rules to follow.
Regards,
Nick.
But don’t you think that without regulation we would have more people buying trucks, leaving no running margins for maintenance,wages, fuel etc, HP’ed up to hell and having the ‘must get the trucks out working for any price’ mentality and not looking further ahead. This would soon be seized upon by those who send the loads and de-value the going rates even further. Although this is already happening where one player is trying to take the work off another, it’s classed as OK while the big fish are doing it but if the little fish were to start…
The idea of a set price per load as mentioned in the previous thread, is IMO, the way is should be done now. A fixed rate that you get 100% of if you have new truck and trailer and the rate diminishing according to your vehicle and trailer age and spec. Utopian maybe, but if it was to be done that way there would be no load pinching for a couple of quid less and more firms doing load out and a load back rather than rushing back empty to keep their outbound provider happy.
However, they would never get rid of O licencing as it is a job for the old school boys of the funny handshake club!
ncooper:
Coffeeholic:
No.
Every idiot out there would be getting hold of a truck and carving the rates up to get and keep, for a few weeks, their wheels rolling.That’s essentially what is happening now.
Those carving the rates are now led by very large concerns who appear to be
intent in driving each other and everyone else out of business.The industry is overloaded with hauliers, the cake is of a fixed size and for one to increase
its share, another has to lose.
Couldn’t agree more. At least O licensing does make it less easy for just anyone to do it. removing it would just multiply teh problems you have outlined.
ncooper:
Most goods are being moved for less than the true cost of transporting them and in a very inefficient way,
highlighted by the various RDCs which regularly take hours to remove a handful of pallets.I don’t remember the days of A,B and C licences but I understand that none could be obtained without proof of work,
and that most changed hands for a very large sum of money.
At least that system went some way towards keeping the number of hauliers in some kind of proportion to the amount of available work.Again, I don’t remember it but I also understand that nationalised haulage worked quite well until some bright spark decided that each depot had to show a profit, so they all started loading their own trucks with premium outbound work and other depot’s lorries and their own were left with no backloads.
Far from tying the industry up in unnecessary red tape, O licensing in fact opened flood gates and let in the huge numbers of rate cutting individuals and companies who have made the industry the shark infested ocean it is today.
At least a reasonable degree of vehicle safety is maintained and most stick to the drivers hours rules, make no mistake, very few would bother if there were no rules to follow.
Regards,
Nick.
Again, can’t disagree with any of that and although O licensing is far from perfect just removing it will only make the situation worse, including allowing some of the cowboys a way back