I only got into it at the time (1986) because you could pass your Class 1 test one day (straight from a car licence) and then be driving down to Italy or Spain the next day, doing average 12 hour shifts and having top-notch places to stop at.
There’s no way I’d be interested in doing two driving tests just to drive up and down the M1 every day, being treated as a second-class citizen everywhere I go for money which is, in real terms, at least 30% less than it was when I started out and for the next 20 years. I honestly don’t know why anyone would want to take an HGV test nowadays.
Radar19:
There is and there isn’t. The firms that are experiencing a fall in recuriment are the ones that pay poorly and run their drivers hard. Take our place for example, not naming names at the moment but we have been struggling to get bums on seats for Class 1 for well over a year if not longer.
Best mate drives a 18 tonner for a builders merchants, says their depot has given up trying to get an extra driver - the odd one that has come never lasts more than a week.
Might be something to do with the fact that they only pay new drivers £8.33 an hour, which is less than my agency rate.
there is no shortage of hgv drivers, there is only a shortage of english speaking drivers or uk national drivers, as most of the guys have got out of the game, and its been filled by our friends from the eu countries, without them there would be a huge shortage so we owe them a huge debt of gratitude for coming over here and doing the job that most national drivers have given up on, just like the nhs that is over run with migrant workers, our own people will not work for such rubbish pay and conditions and its happend now in driving, i wonder what industry would be next ?
desypete:
there is no shortage of hgv drivers, there is only a shortage of english speaking drivers or uk national drivers, as most of the guys have got out of the game, and its been filled by our friends from the eu countries, without them there would be a huge shortage so we owe them a huge debt of gratitude for coming over here and doing the job that most national drivers have given up on, just like the nhs that is over run with migrant workers, our own people will not work for such rubbish pay and conditions and its happend now in driving, i wonder what industry would be next ?
A bit naive of you Pete to think it’s only the driving game that’s had to ‘rationalise’ its wage structure, and general appeal of the job.The flood and now glut of labour has impacted all lower skilled industries, so much so that employers don’t generally need to care how their staff are treated, as they’ve got used to the fact that at a click of the fingers that person can be replaced. But at the same time we are in a global trading market now, and if you’re noncompetitive, you won’t get the work… So with your logic of ‘our own people’ not willing to work for these lower rates, what exactly else do you think they are doing now? Do you really think they have moved into another game that hasn’t been impacted, or have had to ■■■■ it up and accept the reality of the situation adjusting accordingly…
P.S. If you’re going to be so patriotic mate, any chance you can use a capital E in England, as otherwise you’re looking a bit amateurish…
Radar19:
There is and there isn’t. The firms that are experiencing a fall in recuriment are the ones that pay poorly and run their drivers hard. Take our place for example, not naming names at the moment but we have been struggling to get bums on seats for Class 1 for well over a year if not longer.
Best mate drives a 18 tonner for a builders merchants, says their depot has given up trying to get an extra driver - the odd one that has come never lasts more than a week.
Might be something to do with the fact that they only pay new drivers £8.33 an hour, which is less than my agency rate.
Where do I sign up?
And when you take into account the limited yet regular (and reasonable hours), you’re looking at a pretty sorry pay packet for your responsibility and effort. I’m sure the firm is well aware that what they are offering is a joke, but I guess a combination of chancing their arm, and the thought of upping the rates across the board, is giving the the company accountant a good ■■■■■■ workout as their sphincter contracts whilst crunching the numbers.
I wouldn’t know that percentage of the overall overheads a couple of quid makes to the bottom line, but you can be sure its not a conversation the accountant wants to have with the bosses/shareholders, and something they won’t want to hear…
Business is like many things in life, until it breaks you don’t have a problem. And ONLY when their is a real shortage will we see firms having the right conversations about drivers, and wages changing.
Having spent a larger % of my working life driving HGV than any other job I’m sad and happy to say I’m nearly 10yr out of it now. Sad as I love driving trucks but happy as I couldn’t be done with the rigmarole there is now for pass-poor money.
I’m now in R&M, my supervisor asks when a job will be finished and I’m left mainly to organise my day. Remember that?
Pay +50% over what I’d get driving and far less stress. Decent pension, sick pay etc.
Still got my licence but use it, nah! Big changes would need to happen for that.
Harry Monk:
I only got into it at the time (1986) because you could pass your Class 1 test one day (straight from a car licence) and then be driving down to Italy or Spain the next day, doing average 12 hour shifts and having top-notch places to stop at.
There’s no way I’d be interested in doing two driving tests just to drive up and down the M1 every day, being treated as a second-class citizen everywhere I go for money which is, in real terms, at least 30% less than it was when I started out and for the next 20 years. I honestly don’t know why anyone would want to take an HGV test nowadays.
We obviously agree to disagree on the idea that anyone could pass their test one day and walk into an international job the next although if Dean B could post some of the situations wanted ads out of his old Truck magazines it might give a more realistic idea of the reality in the day.
As for me I did exactly what you’ve described in 80’ and 85’ IE class 2 and then class 1 later.The result being that my class 2,then obviously meaning and including up to 3 + 3 drawbar entitlement,got me to the heights of a council driver.Driving mostly a class 3 4 wheeler Clydesdale on £80 per week.Then my class 1 got me at best 15 years of uk night trunking.With a short layoff from that soon after starting in 85’ getting me at best a job at the lowest levels of the general haulage scene on around £30 per day for an ‘expected’ 12 hours + and some agency work which at best was class 3 bulk but more often at worse 7.5 tonne multi drop or class 3 local building deliveries.
Does any of that mean that I’d rather have stayed earning more as a factory worker etc etc.No.
Would I have been looking for a different ‘type’ of driving job other than trucks,like out of town bus driver or garage/hire car delivery/collection etc etc ‘if’ I hadn’t have found at least a reasonable uk night trunking job.Absolutely.
Bearing in mind that at best even trunking now more often means long shifts working within a hub system and/or plodding along clear motorways at 90 kmh max.Rather than pre limiter job and finish direct depot to depot.
While international work has now gone from the limited elitist scene of the 1980’s.To the even more limited carve up of mostly cheap East Euro operations,doing whatever hasn’t been handed to the rail freight industry bearing in mind there was no Channel Tunnel providing UK/Europe rail links in the 1980’s.
desypete:
there is no shortage of hgv drivers, there is only a shortage of english speaking drivers or uk national drivers, as most of the guys have got out of the game, and its been filled by our friends from the eu countries, without them there would be a huge shortage so we owe them a huge debt of gratitude for coming over here and doing the job that most national drivers have given up on, just like the nhs that is over run with migrant workers, our own people will not work for such rubbish pay and conditions and its happend now in driving, i wonder what industry would be next ?
It seems that HMRC are now outsourcing collections. This is good, because you can now default all monies owed without consequence. The very notion that a previously enforceable debt has been passed on to a third party who do not have the right to ■■■■ in the gents in this country - smacks of supreme daftness - but there is is…
Radar19:
There is and there isn’t. The firms that are experiencing a fall in recuriment are the ones that pay poorly and run their drivers hard. Take our place for example, not naming names at the moment but we have been struggling to get bums on seats for Class 1 for well over a year if not longer.
Best mate drives a 18 tonner for a builders merchants, says their depot has given up trying to get an extra driver - the odd one that has come never lasts more than a week.
Might be something to do with the fact that they only pay new drivers £8.33 an hour, which is less than my agency rate.
Radar19:
There is and there isn’t. The firms that are experiencing a fall in recuriment are the ones that pay poorly and run their drivers hard. Take our place for example, not naming names at the moment but we have been struggling to get bums on seats for Class 1 for well over a year if not longer.
Best mate drives a 18 tonner for a builders merchants, says their depot has given up trying to get an extra driver - the odd one that has come never lasts more than a week.
Might be something to do with the fact that they only pay new drivers £8.33 an hour, which is less than my agency rate.
And every other Saturday morning!
And probably lots of yard duties when not driving and at best running locally around urban areas spending more time loading/unloading than driving anyway.IE not most drivers’ idea of being a truck driver.Probably to the point where a distance bulk pallet deliveries/collection job would be far more attractive,even with more hours and at £8 per hour ‘if’ they can find it.
TiredAndEmotional:
And every other Saturday morning!
Yup.
£19500 p.a. for a 45 hour week.
Carryfast:
And probably lots of yard duties when not driving and at best running locally around urban areas spending more time loading/unloading than driving anyway.IE not most drivers’ idea of being a truck driver.Probably to the point where a distance bulk pallet deliveries/collection job would be far more attractive,even with more hours and at £8 per hour ‘if’ they can find it.
Don’t think my mate is in the yard too long, but a new driver I guess so. Mate has been there years, is on a old contract with a few less hours and gets
nearer £10/hour. Still not great, but it’s 7 till 4 and 5 minutes from his house so a decent work/life balance, even if the elf an safety culture and inconsiderate car drivers have helped kill off a lot of the love he had for it when he started.
I have no idea if there is a shortage or not, I haven’t driven for 2 1/2 years now and everyone I knew who went into driving like me after school has left the industry too for one reason or another.
For me, the whole thing (4 years driving) was a pretty ■■■■ experience from pay to office staff treating you like muck.
Maybe there is no shortage as there is always an EE ready to jump in the seat but I’d definitely say theres a shortage of Young people coming into lorry driving and sticking it out.
I passed my Class 2 back in June 2016 and have still been unable to find a permanent full-time job! Many other newly-passed drivers
are in the same situation as me!
The only work I can get is 1-3 days per week, working for agencies at different firms, covering for sickness and holidays…and some weeks (like last week)…no work at all…despite living in an area where their are loads of HGV firms within a short commute!
If there really was a shortage of drivers, me and many other newly passed drivers, would walk straight into a full-time job.
I have worked odd days here and there for more than 15 firms in the last 8 months since passing my Class 2, and all have 25% to 50% of
their permanent drivers from Eastern Europe. The sheer numbers of Eastern European drivers working in the UK is stopping thousands of newly-passed UK drivers from getting permanent jobs. Having borrowed over £2000 from the bank to pass my Class 2, Theory tests and CPC…I am not much better off than I was on the Dole…and I have a £2000 debt…and everyone wonders why people in my area voted in their droves for Brexit!
That report paints a grim picture of how they see a tramper’s life.
Tbh it is like difference between black and white to what it was when I started 79/80,.and how/why it was an attraction to me to want to do it.
Before that I used to go off with my mates, loved it, the social life side of it was great, town and city centre truck parks, meet up with mates, or more often than not lads you did not know but doing the same job and hit the town.
I still tend to try and have a social side in the job even today, but not to the extent that it used to be.
Many trampers today succumb to pressure too ■■■■ easy, and
park up on 8.59 in somewhere totally unusuitable, and off again after 11 or 9 off all the week.
Where is the possible attraction in that endurance test/rat race lifestyle to any young guy wanting to start ffs
So even if they do express an interest in driving, getting home deffo sounds a better option than all that type of ■■■■■■■■.
You can not dwindle away a quality of a job up to zero attraction, where there is no parking, no basic facilities, be actually EXPECTED to park in a [zb] lay by, no social life, no real enjoyment due to being pressurised, and then expect young lads to be queing up to be trampers.
Guys like me with exp can tell them to politely go and [zb] themselves, where as with a new lad it aint so easy.
If I was just starting off today based on what I have listed, there is no way in hell I would want to be a tramper.
I started working in the early 90’s out of Felixstowe. I think your opinion is spot on. I had lots of great nights out. lots of laughs with people I didn’t know but were doing the same job as me.There was a kind of camaraderie It all appears to have gone now. I had some great nights out. lots of memorable stories I even set a stripper on fire at the Thurrock truck stop ( will save that story for another time though lol )
WHAT is it that makes an outwardly crappy-looking job “acceptable” then?
I can’t work out for example why people go for sub-£10ph artic jobs but won’t touch a C2 multidrop @ £12.00+ph “days to start” job - with a bargepole?!
…Especially if the artic job in question is a multi-drop on THAT.
Imagine an employer offering you something like a “fleetboard” way of working out your pay:-
"Ok guy, our basic hourly rate at this yard is £18ph. If you don’t want to work Weekends - take off £2ph If you don’t want to work after 6pm - take off £2ph If you don’t want nights out - take off £2ph If you don’t want to do multi-drop - take off £2ph If you are happy to work for less than £10ph - take off £2ph."
So… A fusspot driver with no flexibility whatsoever - is only ever going to see £8ph jobs, and that’s all there will be in sight, ever.
I suggest there is a clear shortage of flexible drivers then, because those prepared to do those items I’ve listed above - can easily command the higher rates, PAYE at that.
Winseer:
WHAT is it that makes an outwardly crappy-looking job “acceptable” then?
I can’t work out for example why people go for sub-£10ph artic jobs but won’t touch a C2 multidrop @ £12.00+ph “days to start” job - with a bargepole?!
…Especially if the artic job in question is a multi-drop on THAT.
Imagine an employer offering you something like a “fleetboard” way of working out your pay:-
"Ok guy, our basic hourly rate at this yard is £18ph. If you don’t want to work Weekends - take off £2ph If you don’t want to work after 6pm - take off £2ph If you don’t want nights out - take off £2ph If you don’t want to do multi-drop - take off £2ph If you are happy to work for less than £10ph - take off £2ph."
So… A fusspot driver with no flexibility whatsoever - is only ever going to see £8ph jobs, and that’s all there will be in sight, ever.
I suggest there is a clear shortage of flexible drivers then, because those prepared to do those items I’ve listed above - can easily command the higher rates, PAYE at that.
Maybe where you live but not up here in there North East sorry to say even agency you will push to get £10 ph & 30 + people applying
Winseer:
WHAT is it that makes an outwardly crappy-looking job “acceptable” then?
I can’t work out for example why people go for sub-£10ph artic jobs but won’t touch a C2 multidrop @ £12.00+ph “days to start” job - with a bargepole?!
…Especially if the artic job in question is a multi-drop on THAT.
Imagine an employer offering you something like a “fleetboard” way of working out your pay:-
"Ok guy, our basic hourly rate at this yard is £18ph. If you don’t want to work Weekends - take off £2ph If you don’t want to work after 6pm - take off £2ph If you don’t want nights out - take off £2ph If you don’t want to do multi-drop - take off £2ph If you are happy to work for less than £10ph - take off £2ph."
So… A fusspot driver with no flexibility whatsoever - is only ever going to see £8ph jobs, and that’s all there will be in sight, ever.
I suggest there is a clear shortage of flexible drivers then, because those prepared to do those items I’ve listed above - can easily command the higher rates, PAYE at that.
I’d guess that you’re confusing local multi drop with relatively longer distance bulk work.The two being as different as chalk and cheese with the latter fitting the definition of more of a ‘driving’ job for anyone who’s idea of the job is ‘driving’.It’s no secret or mystery in that case as to why most ‘drivers’ would choose the bulk job over the local/multi drop one at any price.The two types of job possibly having no connection with Class 1 or 2 or being mutually exclusive with neither in either case.IE I’d prefer to take an £8 per hour class 2 or class 1 distance bulk job over class 2 or even class 1 local/multi drop at any price.The only difference being that it’s more likely that distance bulk will be found on ‘class 1’,than class 2 ( more like class 3 ).
On that note it’s obvious that your chart puts too much emphasis on shift start finish time/day flexibility and not enough on type of work.
However the difference between local/multi drop v distance bulk deliveries/collections for example is something else with that difference not being sorted by wages.In that a job which in most cases involves far more driving than loading/unloading,in addition to ideally driving to interesting scenic different parts of the country or even other countries,is first and foremost why most drivers do the job and which no amount of money would compensate for.On that note I’d doubt if you’d get many complaints regarding a late or early start and/or nights out to do a distance full load or couple of bulk collections/ drops run.But you can keep the commute and urban/local/multi drop job at any wage let alone two quid extra per hour.
It all depends on what you want to work as to whether the money is good or not. Personally I don’t think any wage is good in our game. On the face of it, it can appear ok, but factor in start times, weekends, what you have to do when you aren’t driving etc. Sometimes appearances are deceptive.
I won’t work weekends or nights, as my personal life is more important. I work to live, not live to work. Luckily I’m on an ok salary, and my inclusive nights out are rarely used, as we now send most of our work by night trunk. I’m currently averaging 55 hours a week, with barely 30 for the wtd, doing around 2 nights out a month and taking home just under £600 a week. Not bad for local work, but I know plenty on here wouldn’t get out of bed for it
I’m sure the firm is well aware that what they are offering is a joke, but I guess a combination of chancing their arm, and the thought of upping the rates across the board, is giving the the company accountant a good ■■■■■■ workout as their sphincter contracts whilst crunching the numbers.
I had some great nights out. lots of memorable stories I even set a stripper on fire at the Thurrock truck stop ( will save that story for another time though lol )