if poa doesn’t count towards duty/work time how does that stop some unscrupulous employer using poa to extend the day?
coops, the total shift length is governed by the amount of rest required in a 24 hour period after starting a shift. Any POA you take during the day doesn’t affect this.
We all fall into the trap of talking about a 15 or a 13 (hours), but of course this isn’t the whole story.
What do you mean “extend the day”?
Daily rest rules stay the same regardless of whether or not you are on duty/break/POA.
POA is there exactly to stop the 48hr of weekly work clock from ticking.
If you think that is a fiddle to get more work from us poor hard-done-by workers and circumvent rules designed to get us all a decent work/life balance? No comment
@franglais i had fallen into the trap noremac described of using it to extend the working day past 13 or 15 hours because i hadn’t remembered that poa stops the clock didn’t think of the rest rules.
Frangers, some drivers are their own worst enemies and will want to get it on POA at the slightest opportunity to keep their average down or even to stay under 60 hours.
Personally I will use it sparingly, but commonly when there has been a long wait at the start of a shift, so when I get my run I can go ahead and get the run done, because by that point I would normally be behind anyway. Also, on occasion during busy periods when I would really rather not be near 60 hours but I am because I have helped out or have had something happen outwith anyone’s control.
I agree it can be used well.
Like all tools it should be understood better maybe?
Split daily rests can also be a pain in giving you permanent 15 hrs days for the boss, or can be used to help you in a spot that you want to get out of.
Today, I had a conversation with one of our assessors about my situation. He clarified that taking a 15-minute break actually extended my workday by an additional 6 hours. This means if I took my break at 9 AM, it prolonged my workday until 3 PM. He pointed out that there isn’t a requirement to take a 30-minute break between the 6th and 9th hour of work if my shift isn’t over. If I were to end my work within that window, I would need to ensure I’ve taken at least a 30-minute break. Exiting work having only taken a 15-minute break would constitute an infringement. Now, I feel I have a complete understanding.
As for using POA it unfortunately seems like a dream come true for employers. I’m working between 60 and 80 hours a week, but according to the tachograph, I’m averaging less than 48 hours weekly. Employers do tend to take advantage, sadly… but sometimes there’s no alternative.
I’m glad you have that straight.
60-80 hours plus a commute every day or are you tramping?
in my limited time of about 5 years of driving i have never been able to use poa nor needed to.
if the truck wasn’t ready or back or the load was late or what ever the hold up other work or break. i have never had a situation where i have known in advance how long it will be before the issue is solved.
99% of issues are caused by poor management and cant be arsed to do their job so why should i make it easy for them to waste my time and make my job harder for no money
define “workday”, and still makes no sense
POA is paid as part of your duty time, duty time extends from your start time to your finish time.
I use POA extensively. And particularly for long shifts, say Stobart, Warrens and the like, otherwise the weekly working hours go through the roof. I love POA
here is the thing about poa i rock up to a collection or delivery point and it takes 2 hours. i can either put it on other work and the 2 hours counts towards my weekly working time… or i can loose it by putting it on poa there by extending the amount of time between wtd breaks and my weekly work time.
^^^^^
Or, unless you don’t get paid for all breaks, you could put the tachograph on break which has the same affect as POA but with less conditions attached.
I think the point is, make it work for you.
If you are waiting on being loaded/unloaded, then sod’s law states that they will finish when you are close to needing a break. Then they will want you off the bay, and no, you can’t have a break on the premises.
it depends on the circumstances my first class 1 job i was generally delivering to rdc’s and one or two stores. i would turn up and book in get a bay etc i would ask if there was a smoking area if i got you cant use it or any attitude when i went back to the truck other work. if they were polite even if there wasn’t a smoking area generally it would go on break.
Incidentally my friend that used to drive 2003 ish hardly used other work he used to rock up to a delivery point they would do the doors and load.unload and close the door. He only ever used break and obviously driving
Has anyone encountered a place that deducts breaks according to the tacho?
I have obviously encountered almost everywhere that deducts breaks, but it has only every been 45 mins per shift.
1 placement i had they deducted an hour another said all breaks however on that one i fell asleep while on break being tipped and was still deducted 45 min despite nearly having 2 hours total
the other dodge i have come across is if you are paid different rates across your shift say afternoon into evening so you get night rate for part of your shift or even the other way round they deduct your break from the most expensive rate regardless of when you took it.
the other “scam” i have seen although not in driving is they make you work an extra half hour so for a 9 hour shift you work from 6 - 15.30 to make up the 30 minuet lunch break
We get a set day rate / salary, OT only paid for 6th shift. The control on your hours is the 48hr weekly average, if need be near the end of the reference period you will be stood down for the odd day here and there to get back under your hours.
So using more break than needed or POA for us only works against the driver by pulling the weekly average down. Occasionally you can find yourself having to if you want an OT on Sat or Sun for the money, but are running up to the 60hr weekly max.
if you were stood down to reduce your average were you paid?
“Stood down” isn’t mentioned in the legislation, it’s POA, most people expect to be paid for POA, I believe most are, but I’m not certain you can legally demand to be paid, it might be one of those “voting with your feet” circumstances if you aren’t paid.