Petrol and diesel cars to be phased out within 20 years?

[the_nodding_donkey]

Carryfast:

the nodding donkey:

Carryfast:
The relevant bit is that ( luckily unless anyone is a green crusader ) we’re talking about the freedom of choice to use petrol fuelled vehicles until and after 2040 and that’s what the Greens don’t like because they know that given the choice no one with any sense will want to drive a zb battery powered EV toy.Hopefully by which time people will realise the extent,expense and dangers of the scam that’s being foisted on them and we can chuck the whole idea on the scrap heap together with the climate change agenda where it belongs.

You are a perfect example why decisions that affect the future, should only be voted on by young people, who have to live with the [zb] heap that selfish, stupid, shortsighted and downright vindictive voters like you create. Because of your selfish desire to drive a rust bucket from the past, no matter the consequences, and because of your ‘little Englander rules the waves’ attitude, you, for the few years that you have left, have set this country’s, and the young and future generations of this country, future back by decades.

Says the green crusader who wants to risk other people’s lives and property with an inevitable potentially catastrophic nuclear accident.On the basis that he lives near the coast and has a private boat that he thinks will allow him to escape all of the resulting mess.While I’m guessing that you’re another one who hasn’t put your money where your rhetoric is in making an example of going all electric at home.Instead of choosing cheaper more efficient gas fuelled heating.

As for ‘young people’ yes we know easily brainwashed conformist establishment voting drones acting like turkeys voting for Christmas.That’s why they are all cycling around emulating their tour de france heroes to save their guvno
rs paying them enough to afford a decent car.

So would you advocate we go back to heating our homes with coal? Progress and change are inevitable, and essential. We can not continue the way we are now. As even you must realise, the fossil fuel reserves are finite. No new deposits of oil, or gas, are created. Sooner or later, we will run out. For that moment, we need alternatives. And we need them up and running before we run out of fossil fuels. To that effect, we need to consider our options. Nuclear has an inherent danger, but those danger are generally contained. Even a catastrophic emergency as chernobil or Fukushima is manageable. Wind power, properly used and managed, is free and has been used for centuries. In fact, your precious Empire could not have been build and maintained without it. But, wind alone is too unpredictable, that is true. But that is no reason to dismiss it the way you do. Likewise solar power. My boats and campervan are mostely self sufficient with solar panels. Yes, on dark winter days I will need a generator, but only as a back up.

But you are typical. Me me me… As for indoctrinated young people, your not exactly a free thinker yourself are you?

[carryfast]

the nodding donkey:
So would you advocate we go back to heating our homes with coal? Progress and change are inevitable, and essential. We can not continue the way we are now. As even you must realise, the fossil fuel reserves are finite. No new deposits of oil, or gas, are created. Sooner or later, we will run out. For that moment, we need alternatives. And we need them up and running before we run out of fossil fuels. To that effect, we need to consider our options. Nuclear has an inherent danger, but those danger are generally contained. Even a catastrophic emergency as chernobil or Fukushima is manageable. Wind power, properly used and managed, is free and has been used for centuries. In fact, your precious Empire could not have been build and maintained without it. But, wind alone is too unpredictable, that is true. But that is no reason to dismiss it the way you do. Likewise solar power. My boats and campervan are mostely self sufficient with solar panels. Yes, on dark winter days I will need a generator, but only as a back up.

But you are typical. Me me me… As for indoctrinated young people, your not exactly a free thinker yourself are you?

Having used coal fired central heating until well into the 1980’s.The move from coal to gas for domestic heating had more to do with convenience and ironically saving the extortionate cost of having to use electric to heat the water supply during the summer when the coal fire and therefore back boiler wasn’t being used.The relevant bit being that electric is the worst possible option regarding cost even relatively cheap to produce coal fired electric generation let alone nuclear.As I said I’m guessing that you for one haven’t put more money where your rhetoric is by going all electric for your domestic energy needs to make an example ?.

As for the idea that you’re happy with betting other people’s lives and property and food supplies against facing a Chernobyl type situation,but obviously on a much larger scale,that seems to show who’s the selfish one here and it ain’t me.

As for it having anything to do with fossil fuels supposedly running out then the air transport industry would obviously be facing a similar cut off date and we wouldn’t have buried 1,000 years’ worth of coal reserves,and it will obviously be a matter of choice to carry on using them until they really do run out with even the most pessimistic assessments for even oil putting that at around 53 years time which itself doesn’t seem to fit the future predicted for the civil aviation industry for some reason for one example.Nor does it take account of substitution of oil with coal based hydro carbons and gas.So fine ‘if’/‘when’ the oil/gas/coal really does run out then we’d obviously expect to see no further future for the civil aviation industry at least and ‘then’ it will be time to look for something else not before.

However why anyone who’s supposedly ‘green’ would want to lumber us with the risk of poisoning the place through nuclear accidents or get rid of internal combustion engines is anyone’s guess.When we’ve got a massive effectively infinite air compressor in the form of under sea water pressures sitting off the coast and it wouldn’t be rocket science to harness that and link it to compressed air driven generators,which can also then be used to produce hydrogen from water,which we can then use in engines instead of petrol.

On that note remind us how old even the youngest of today’s Green hippy army will be in 55-1,000 years time.In which case fossil fuels running out is a problem that later generations will need to solve not us and it’s best not to leave them with an uninhabitable nuclear polluted country and/or resulting congenital birth defects before they even get the chance to start.Because realistically we all know that wind and solar energy won’t cut it and that it’s nuclear v fossil fuels that’s being needlessly discussed here.All to create a captive market and needless dependence on nuclear energy to fill the coffers of the nuclear energy providers.Instead of the freedom of choice provided by the much safer and therefore lesser evil,of the oil and gas and coal industries until they can no further meet that role which ain’t going to be anytime soon and certainly wouldn’t be in the case of coal if we hadn’t allowed these scammers to bury it all beyond use.

[the_nodding_donkey]

Carryfast:

the nodding donkey:
So would you advocate we go back to heating our homes with coal? Progress and change are inevitable, and essential. We can not continue the way we are now. As even you must realise, the fossil fuel reserves are finite. No new deposits of oil, or gas, are created. Sooner or later, we will run out. For that moment, we need alternatives. And we need them up and running before we run out of fossil fuels. To that effect, we need to consider our options. Nuclear has an inherent danger, but those danger are generally contained. Even a catastrophic emergency as chernobil or Fukushima is manageable. Wind power, properly used and managed, is free and has been used for centuries. In fact, your precious Empire could not have been build and maintained without it. But, wind alone is too unpredictable, that is true. But that is no reason to dismiss it the way you do. Likewise solar power. My boats and campervan are mostely self sufficient with solar panels. Yes, on dark winter days I will need a generator, but only as a back up.

But you are typical. Me me me… As for indoctrinated young people, your not exactly a free thinker yourself are you?

Having used coal fired central heating until well into the 1980’s.The move from coal to gas for domestic heating had more to do with convenience and ironically saving the extortionate cost of having to use electric to heat the water supply during the summer when the coal fire and therefore back boiler wasn’t being used.The relevant bit being that electric is the worst possible option regarding cost even relatively cheap to produce coal fired electric generation let alone nuclear.As I said I’m guessing that you for one haven’t put more money where your rhetoric is by going all electric for your domestic energy needs to make an example ?.

As for the idea that you’re happy with betting other people’s lives and property and food supplies against facing a Chernobyl type situation,but obviously on a much larger scale,that seems to show who’s the selfish one here and it ain’t me.

As for it having anything to do with fossil fuels supposedly running out then the air transport industry would obviously be facing a similar cut off date and we wouldn’t have buried 1,000 years’ worth of coal reserves,and it will obviously be a matter of choice to carry on using them until they really do run out with even the most pessimistic assessments for even oil putting that at around 53 years time which itself doesn’t seem to fit the future predicted for the civil aviation industry for some reason for one example.Nor does it take account of substitution of oil with coal based hydro carbons and gas.So fine ‘if’/‘when’ the oil/gas/coal really does run out then we’d obviously expect to see no further future for the civil aviation industry at least and ‘then’ it will be time to look for something else not before.

However why anyone who’s supposedly ‘green’ would want to lumber us with the risk of poisoning the place through nuclear accidents or get rid of internal combustion engines is anyone’s guess.When we’ve got a massive effectively infinite air compressor in the form of under sea water pressures sitting off the coast and it wouldn’t be rocket science to harness that and link it to compressed air driven generators,which can also then be used to produce hydrogen from water,which we can then use in engines instead of petrol.

On that note remind us how old even the youngest of today’s Green hippy army will be in 55-1,000 years time.In which case fossil fuels running out is a problem that later generations will need to solve not us and it’s best not to leave them with an uninhabitable nuclear polluted country and/or resulting congenital birth defects before they even get the chance to start.Because realistically we all know that wind and solar energy won’t cut it and that it’s nuclear v fossil fuels that’s being needlessly discussed here.All to create a captive market and needless dependence on nuclear energy to fill the coffers of the nuclear energy providers.Instead of the freedom of choice provided by the much safer and therefore lesser evil,of the oil and gas and coal industries until they can no further meet that role which ain’t going to be anytime soon and certainly wouldn’t be in the case of coal if we hadn’t allowed these scammers to bury it all beyond use.

[roymondo]

It seems no-one here has actually read the proposals, and has instead relied entirely on whatever spin their preferred news source has chosen to put on it - especially that headline “No more petrol/diesel engined cars after 2040 so we’ll all have to drive electric cars.” In fact that’s not what is being put forward at all.

[the_nodding_donkey]

Roymondo:
It seems no-one here has actually read the proposals, and has instead relied entirely on whatever spin their preferred news source has chosen to put on it - especially that headline “No more petrol/diesel engined cars after 2040 so we’ll all have to drive electric cars.” In fact that’s not what is being put forward at all.

Some of us worked that out a while back.

[knight2]

Roymondo:
It seems no-one here has actually read the proposals, and has instead relied entirely on whatever spin their preferred news source has chosen to put on it - especially that headline “No more petrol/diesel engined cars after 2040 so we’ll all have to drive electric cars.” In fact that’s not what is being put forward at all.

I’d been wondering about that, but they do love to moan

[lancpudn]

To be honest I cant wait to get my BEV, I’m an old ■■■■ & retired. I don’t have a commute these days nor do I drive long distances anymore so a BEV will suit me down to the ground. I don’t drive more than 100 miles in a week & haven’t done for a long time so one charge a week costing less than a fiver will suffice for me . I’ve inquired about insurance for one & it’s a third less than I’m paying now plus no road tax & to be able to drive past a petrol station will put a smirk on my face after paying through the nose for the stuff for over 45 years.

Agreed they wont suit a vast majority of drivers habits but for me it’s a no brainer.

[lancpudn]

I see the Dutch government has just announced that it will ban the sale of petrol & diesel cars by the year 2030, a whole 10 years ahead of France & the UK.
One thing that did stand out reading that report was that new homes will no longer be connected to gas lines.

insideevs.com/dutch-government- … s-in-2030/

[lancpudn]

This is a good read if you’ve got 10 minutes regarding all the brouhaha about evil diesel. bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt … ar_exhaust The government & car makers cant seem to make up their minds about real life accurate emissions of vehicles.

[carryfast]

lancpudn:
I see the Dutch government has just announced that it will ban the sale of petrol & diesel cars by the year 2030, a whole 10 years ahead of France & the UK.
One thing that did stand out reading that report was that new homes will no longer be connected to gas lines.

It’s obvious that the same agenda,that wants to create a captive market for the EV manufacturers and electricity suppliers,will want to do the same in the case of domestic fuel.At which point it proves the real agenda and a case of be careful what you wish for.

IE a captive market dependent on already expensive electricity with no alternative option.On that note you can bet that they’ll also remove the option of using bottled LPG supplies for domestic use.Make no mistake this is all about creation of a captive market dependent on dangerous and expensive Chinese and French owned nuclear electricity supplied to the consumer at retail prices and smart metered road fuel taxation on top.Which also explains how no diesel or petrol fuelled vehicles gets corrupted as supposedly meaning no ICE powered vehicles.As opposed to at least the choice of hydrogen fuelled ICE powered vehicles.

[lancpudn]

Combustion engines peaked in 2018 It’s all downhill from now on insideevs.com/combustion-engine … 8-ev-rise/

[lancpudn]

The charging stations are getting bigger check out this 300 stall charger hub in Zeebrugge.

[juddian]

Looks very futuristic ^^^, do you reckon charging up will still be a fiver when the alternatives (ICE powered) have been banned?

Rather interesting the layout of the charging station, i assume vehicles charging would park one side only but there are leads hanging off the meter both sides, so presumably accommodating cars both sides, so how do you get out if the space(s) in front of you are occupied…ah twigged it, two leads for front or rear charge points, my bad.

[lancpudn]

Juddian:
Looks very futuristic ^^^, do you reckon charging up will still be a fiver when the alternatives (ICE powered) have been banned?

Rather interesting the layout of the charging station, i assume vehicles charging would park one side only but there are leads hanging off the meter both sides, so presumably accommodating cars both sides, so how do you get out if the space(s) in front of you are occupied…ah twigged it, two leads for front or rear charge points, my bad.

I would imagine the government will have to do something with the huge decrease in fuel tax but what? They cant put up the price of electricity because some people wont have an EV or will be charging their BEV’s from home. Tesla have just bought a company out (Maxwell technologies) that make super capacitors that can charge up in an instant and regain energy in an instant from braking regeneration, although they don’t store energy very well they are set to make a huge difference. from what I’ve read they will be able to integrate these with fewer battery cells in the pack to lessen the cost, lighten the car,charge much more quickly and have even more power & torque.

[juddian]

The replacement for fuel tax grab will be found in your smart meter (suspect they will be compulsory by the time enough electric cars sold), which will know what the electricity is being used for and charge accordingly, then there’s GPS linked road pricing, you would not believe just what info your new vehicle is storing by the way so even without a smart meter the car could be uploading it’s electricity charges as you recharge or they could rely on road pricing, somehow knowing government and their greed and wastrel ways it’ll want it’s cake and eat it.

One thing we can all be sure of, no way is this happy (and good luck to those milking it for now) situation of really low tax take road fuel going to continue.

I’m not 100% convinced the future is electric vehicles, not on a large scale anyway, we simply do not have the infrastructure nor the generatiing capacity, my money is on further development of Toyotas highly successful and durable hybrid system, and i wouldn’t be at all surprised if hydrogen cell technology comes into play as the hybrids improve, i honestly think pure electric cars are not the answer long term.

As for banning ICE cars announced to much fanfare by ambitious politicians, far as i’m aware these bans to not apply to hybrids, so i doubt we will see part ICE powered cars off our roads for many decades to come.
The biggest demon target at the moment is Diesel, this shortly after they told everyone to buy Diesel and altered the VED levels to encourage purchase, well the goal posts have shifted from that so don’t be surprised when the next ambitious upstart politician shifts them again.

[rjan]

lancpudn:
The charging stations are getting bigger check out this 300 stall charger hub in Zeebrugge.

Gives me an idea I’d never considered before, that part of the answer of electric trucks will be to store batteries on the trailer itself.

There are vastly more trailers parked up at any one time than units.

[rjan]

Juddian:
The replacement for fuel tax grab will be found in your smart meter (suspect they will be compulsory by the time enough electric cars sold), which will know what the electricity is being used for and charge accordingly, then there’s GPS linked road pricing, you would not believe just what info your new vehicle is storing by the way so even without a smart meter the car could be uploading it’s electricity charges as you recharge or they could rely on road pricing, somehow knowing government and their greed and wastrel ways it’ll want it’s cake and eat it.

One thing we can all be sure of, no way is this happy (and good luck to those milking it for now) situation of really low tax take road fuel going to continue.

This will only happen if people continue to accept the logic of point-of-use charges and the free market mechanism.

Because if you accept it then it will mean the rich drive in the day and the poor must drive at night.

I’m not 100% convinced the future is electric vehicles, not on a large scale anyway, we simply do not have the infrastructure nor the generatiing capacity, my money is on further development of Toyotas highly successful and durable hybrid system, and i wouldn’t be at all surprised if hydrogen cell technology comes into play as the hybrids improve, i honestly think pure electric cars are not the answer long term.

I agree that liquid fuels will probably remain the gold standard, but I wouldn’t argue against electric simply for generating or distributional reasons. They can easily build more power stations and fit more power lines. They are currently closing old power stations without replacing them.

As for banning ICE cars announced to much fanfare by ambitious politicians, far as i’m aware these bans to not apply to hybrids, so i doubt we will see part ICE powered cars off our roads for many decades to come.
The biggest demon target at the moment is Diesel, this shortly after they told everyone to buy Diesel and altered the VED levels to encourage purchase, well the goal posts have shifted from that so don’t be surprised when the next ambitious upstart politician shifts them again.

The biggest problem on this front is the disproportionate influence of single-issue environmental extremists.

The best intervention the government could make would be to encourage more local, smaller workplaces, schools, and shops. The vast majority of motoring is done for these reasons.

But they fear taking on big business, so attack citizens instead whose choices of work, school, and shopping centre are effectively dictated to them by the decisions taken by corporations and the public sector.

[lancpudn]

Juddian:
The replacement for fuel tax grab will be found in your smart meter (suspect they will be compulsory by the time enough electric cars sold), which will know what the electricity is being used for and charge accordingly, then there’s GPS linked road pricing, you would not believe just what info your new vehicle is storing by the way so even without a smart meter the car could be uploading it’s electricity charges as you recharge or they could rely on road pricing, somehow knowing government and their greed and wastrel ways it’ll want it’s cake and eat it.

One thing we can all be sure of, no way is this happy (and good luck to those milking it for now) situation of really low tax take road fuel going to continue.

I’m not 100% convinced the future is electric vehicles, not on a large scale anyway, we simply do not have the infrastructure nor the generatiing capacity, my money is on further development of Toyotas highly successful and durable hybrid system, and i wouldn’t be at all surprised if hydrogen cell technology comes into play as the hybrids improve, i honestly think pure electric cars are not the answer long term.

As for banning ICE cars announced to much fanfare by ambitious politicians, far as i’m aware these bans to not apply to hybrids, so i doubt we will see part ICE powered cars off our roads for many decades to come.
The biggest demon target at the moment is Diesel, this shortly after they told everyone to buy Diesel and altered the VED levels to encourage purchase, well the goal posts have shifted from that so don’t be surprised when the next ambitious upstart politician shifts them again.

According to the CEO of the National Grid they’re ready for & can cope with millions of people plugging BEV’s into the system as of now.
The first of the four worlds biggest Wind farms off the East Yorkshire coast 'Hornsea project 1 is soon to be connected to the grid.
Liverpool bay also has the biggest wind turbines in the world generating power right now.

[carryfast]

Juddian:
As for banning ICE cars announced to much fanfare by ambitious politicians, far as i’m aware these bans to not apply to hybrids, so i doubt we will see part ICE powered cars off our roads for many decades to come.
The biggest demon target at the moment is Diesel, this shortly after they told everyone to buy Diesel and altered the VED levels to encourage purchase, well the goal posts have shifted from that so don’t be surprised when the next ambitious upstart politician shifts them again.

They aren’t ‘banning ICE’ powered vehicles at all ( read the title of the topic ).Although the domestic smart metered electricity suppliers would obviously like the sheep to think that.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_economy

youtube.com/watch?v=HY5KpBhfCpo

As for diesel to be fair it is a dirty obsolete fuel which is all about the perceived saving in fuel costs by its skinflint users.All based on false economy because the costs of the fuel and cleaning up diesel emissions exceed any savings in fuel consumption anyway.Which is why we’ve got people running around with their stinking rattling heaps having chosen to remove their expensive to maintain emissions equipment.When it’s obvious that if fuel costs are a key issue then LPG is the way to go for those users.

[lancpudn]

Looks like the EU has now agreed on truck emissions being cut by 30% before 2030 “The European Union has reached an agreement to set strict CO2 emissions standards for trucks, New truck CO2 emissions must be 30 percent lower in 2030 than current emissions standards”. electrek.co/2019/02/19/eu-agree … qus_thread