The OCR transport manager book acutally says after 41/2 hours driving a driver must take a break of 45mins before any other work is carried out including non driving work.
tachograph:
Sorry but I don’t see that the example you’ve given complies with the regulations
Tachograph,
I wasn’t trying to be clever and say I knew the rules, this was a discussion on interpretations of the break rules.
My post was MY interpretation of it, hense why I asked to be corrected if I was wrong.
I now stand corrected. 
tachograph:
haribo4000:
I personally, was under the impression that after 4.5 hrs driving you had to have a 45 minute break before driving commences again. Nowhere does it state that you must not undertake any other duties before having a break. Therefore you could:
start shift,
drive 4.5 hrs,
other duties 1 hrs,
break 15 mins,
other duties 2 hrs,
break 30 mins,
drive 4.5 hour,
finish shiftPlease correct me if im wrong, but I thought that would be completely within the rules.
The regulations state that “After a driving period of four and a half hours a driver shall take an uninterrupted break of not less than 45 minutes, unless he takes a rest period”.
The statement that you shall take a break after 4½ hours driving sort of negates any need to mention that you shouldn’t undertake any other duties, the regulation doesn’t say take a break unless you’re going to do some other work it says take a break unless you’re starting a rest period, in other words if you’re not starting a rest period take a break.VOSAs interpretation of the regulation is “After a driving period of no more than 4.5 hours, a driver must immediately take a break of at least 45 minutes unless he takes a rest period”.
Sorry but I don’t see that the example you’ve given complies with the regulations
Yes but how many times do we go to exactly 4.5 hours, we normally do a minute or two at least fewer, so we legally can do other work immediately after say 4hours 29 minutes driving as the 4.5 hour limit will not normally be reached.
However I see your point and in the unlikely event that I let it slip to exactly 4hrs 30 mins driving, I will be taking a break immediately.
tachograph:
haribo4000:
I personally, was under the impression that after 4.5 hrs driving you had to have a 45 minute break before driving commences again. Nowhere does it state that you must not undertake any other duties before having a break. Therefore you could:
start shift,
drive 4.5 hrs,
other duties 1 hrs,
break 15 mins,
other duties 2 hrs,
break 30 mins,
drive 4.5 hour,
finish shiftPlease correct me if im wrong, but I thought that would be completely within the rules.
The regulations state that “After a driving period of four and a half hours a driver shall take an uninterrupted break of not less than 45 minutes, unless he takes a rest period”.
The statement that you shall take a break after 4½ hours driving sort of negates any need to mention that you shouldn’t undertake any other duties, the regulation doesn’t say take a break unless you’re going to do some other work it says take a break unless you’re starting a rest period, in other words if you’re not starting a rest period take a break.VOSAs interpretation of the regulation is “After a driving period of no more than 4.5 hours, a driver must immediately take a break of at least 45 minutes unless he takes a rest period”.
Sorry but I don’t see that the example you’ve given complies with the regulations
How often are you ever going to drive bang on 4hrs 30 and then do other work anyway? Rarely if ever at all, so 4hrs 29 and 1hr 30 other work, followed by a 15 min break would be fine?
Don’t see the problem myself.
waynedl:
How often are you ever going to drive bang on 4hrs 30 and then do other work anyway? Rarely if ever at all, so 4hrs 29 and 1hr 30 other work, followed by a 15 min break would be fine?Don’t see the problem myself.
Exactly. Only once have I ever got bang on 4:30 driving on a digi card.
Some interesting responses there.
Thanks.
haribo4000:
tachograph:
Sorry but I don’t see that the example you’ve given complies with the regulationsTachograph,
I wasn’t trying to be clever and say I knew the rules, this was a discussion on interpretations of the break rules.
My post was MY interpretation of it, hense why I asked to be corrected if I was wrong.I now stand corrected.
I never for one minute thought you was trying to be clever or suggest that you know it all mate, sorry if my post came across that way but it certainly wasn’t intended to.
I was merely taking part in the discussion and trying to make clear what the regulations say 
it’s like living in a ■■■■ dictatorship, but so many people can’t see it.
too many sheep/yes men.
why the hell should i be penalised for working too much?
if i want to drive for 6 or 7 hours to get home, then i will. some days 6 or 7 minutes and i can’t be bothered. i don’t need a tachograph, politition, policeman, vosa, or magistrate to tell me what is or isn’t safe.
schrodingers cat:
tachograph:
haribo4000:
~snip~~snip~
Yes but how many times do we go to exactly 4.5 hours, we normally do a minute or two at least fewer, so we legally can do other work immediately after say 4hours 29 minutes driving as the 4.5 hour limit will not normally be reached.
However I see your point and in the unlikely event that I let it slip to exactly 4hrs 30 mins driving, I will be taking a break immediately.
I completely agree but I was answering a question on what the regulations say not how we use them
waynedl:
tachograph:
haribo4000:
~snip~~snip~
How often are you ever going to drive bang on 4hrs 30 and then do other work anyway? Rarely if ever at all, so 4hrs 29 and 1hr 30 other work, followed by a 15 min break would be fine?
Don’t see the problem myself.
I never said there was a problem
I mentioned in an earlier post that I find it stupid that you can legally work for 1½ hours then drive for 4½ hours completely knackered but can’t legally do it the other war round, I was asked to show where in the regulations this was said so I pointed to the relevant documents and hopefully corrected some misunderstanding of the current regulations.
Sorry but I don’t see that whether you drive to 4 hours 30 minutes or 4 hours 29 minutes is particularly relevant to that part of the discussion
robinhood_1984:
waynedl:
~snip~Exactly. Only once have I ever got bang on 4:30 driving on a digi card.
And then you had to have a break and couldn’t legally even do 1 minute of paperwork, but you could have worked for 1½ hours before driving for that 4½ driving, which sort of proves the stupidity of article 7 (EC) 561/2006 that makes you take a break immediately after 4½ hours driving and stops you from legally doing other work.
Thanks for that
limeyphil:
it’s like living in a ■■■■ dictatorship, but so many people can’t see it.
too many sheep/yes men.
why the hell should i be penalised for working too much?
if i want to drive for 6 or 7 hours to get home, then i will. some days 6 or 7 minutes and i can’t be bothered. i don’t need a tachograph, politition, policeman, vosa, or magistrate to tell me what is or isn’t safe.
I can see were you’re coming from Phil, I happen to agree with you, there does need to be some sort of limit though really. When you go over half an hour(ish) to get home/parked somewhere decent, then brick it for the next 6 months about getting fingered by the man. 
I just wish they were more flexible with the driving limit, like a 12 hour shift limit, you must take an hours break in the day, split in 2 if you like but it’s up to you when you take it, illegal to plan you more than 450 miles per day or some such, that would deal with getting held up in traffic. It’s not the driving that’s tiring it’s the long 15 hour days that knacker you, hanging around for some work shy bleeders to unload/load your trailer. Some blokes may not be as sensible in knowing when to stop and take a break if they’re tired. The punishment for having an accident whilst driving tired should be enough of a deterrent to prevent guys doing it rather than worrying about fines from Vosa.
the way to simplify the rules is to make a tiredness test. like a breathalizer, but different.
if you fail you pay a fine, and park up for 24 hours.
speed limiters should be removed.
other than that, no rules.
I’m with limeyphil on this one- the fewer rules the better.
What we have at the moment is a system of rules that are very simple up until the point where you have to take reality into consideration: ferry timetables, factory working hours, customers that don’t finish work until 6pm, people that are out in the morning, distances between various towns etc etc etc. Then it can get complicated.
Also it’s slightly bizarre that multi-drop van work, rock and roll tours, household removals, and trunking tomatoes from Portugal to Helsinki all have to work to the same rules when the work is so very different.
And also, people are very different in how they like to work. Forcing people to work to what to them may be a very un-natural rhythm could well have safety implications.
Do there have to be rules? The argument in favour is usually that they stop bosses taking the zb. Indeed, and I can’t pretend that I don’t think there’s some truth in this. One thing that might be interesting to talk about though is a simple mileage limit - say 700km in 24h, and how you do it, and when you take your breaks is entirely up to the driver. I’m not saying that’s what I think it should be, I’m just presenting it as an idea for discussion…
tachograph:
I never for one minute thought you was trying to be clever or suggest that you know it all mate, sorry if my post came across that way but it certainly wasn’t intended to.I was merely taking part in the discussion and trying to make clear what the regulations say
No problems
The rules need bringing up to date.
Who is benefiting from having a break after 4.5 hrs driving??
Should it not be a personal preference■■? surely drivers know when they need a break.
Also POA why does this not count as a break in UK?
It must be the only EU law that the UK doesnt partake in lol
haribo4000:
Also POA why does this not count as a break in UK?It must be the only EU law that the UK doesnt partake in lol
POA shouldn’t count as break in any EU country, in fact the EU Directive 2002/15/EC specifically say that POA is not break time
Zetorpilot:
I’m with limeyphil on this one- the fewer rules the better.What we have at the moment is a system of rules that are very simple up until the point where you have to take reality into consideration: ferry timetables, factory working hours, customers that don’t finish work until 6pm, people that are out in the morning, distances between various towns etc etc etc. Then it can get complicated.
Also it’s slightly bizarre that multi-drop van work, rock and roll tours, household removals, and trunking tomatoes from Portugal to Helsinki all have to work to the same rules when the work is so very different.
And also, people are very different in how they like to work. Forcing people to work to what to them may be a very un-natural rhythm could well have safety implications.
Do there have to be rules? The argument in favour is usually that they stop bosses taking the zb. Indeed, and I can’t pretend that I don’t think there’s some truth in this. One thing that might be interesting to talk about though is a simple mileage limit - say 700km in 24h, and how you do it, and when you take your breaks is entirely up to the driver. I’m not saying that’s what I think it should be, I’m just presenting it as an idea for discussion…
I agree. I like how it currently is in Canada. You have a total spread over of 14 hours, extendable up to 16 hours if you take up to 2 hours off during your shift in 30 minute or more increments and a total driving alloweance per day of 13 hours within that shift. What you do inside of that time is totally up to you, you dont have to participate in this silly stop-start-stop-start-worry-worry-worry nonsense that is the case in Europe.
Statuory break regs were drawn up for the drivers benefit and well being, and to protect us from unscrupulous bosses, but judging from some of the opinions and attitudes to driving long hours on here 
, it seems they are essential to protect some drivers from themselves.
tachograph:
haribo4000:
Also POA why does this not count as a break in UK?It must be the only EU law that the UK doesnt partake in lol
POA shouldn’t count as break in any EU country, in fact the EU Directive 2002/15/EC specifically say that POA is not break time
Ok, if this is the case, then why does your driving time still reset after 45 mins on POA■■?
haribo4000:
tachograph:
haribo4000:
Also POA why does this not count as a break in UK?It must be the only EU law that the UK doesnt partake in lol
POA shouldn’t count as break in any EU country, in fact the EU Directive 2002/15/EC specifically say that POA is not break time
Ok, if this is the case, then why does your driving time still reset after 45 mins on POA■■?
Because the digital tacho was rushed in before it was ready to work properly with WTD regulations. Its not that Europeans use POA as a break, they dont use POA at all in my experience.
I dont know if they all still do it, but the first digital tacho truck I ever drove was a 56 reg, the very first year they were fitted and despite driving it in 2010 it would still reset my driving time back to zero after three 15 minute or a 30 and a 15 minute break as per the old regs.
Zetorpilot:
…snip…Do there have to be rules? The argument in favour is usually that they stop bosses taking the zb. Indeed, and I can’t pretend that I don’t think there’s some truth in this. One thing that might be interesting to talk about though is a simple mileage limit - say 700km in 24h, and how you do it, and when you take your breaks is entirely up to the driver. I’m not saying that’s what I think it should be, I’m just presenting it as an idea for discussion…
I’m not sure about the daily mileage limit. I’ve done 700k in a day and to be honest, with the 2 breaks and POA while I was tipped and reloaded, it wasn’t the worse I’ve ever felt but this was on Motorway or dual carriage ways with a same site tip and reload. 700k away from Motorways,including a sizeable chunk on single carriage ways, would be a whole different ball game. Factor in the time of day/night and the dreaded nodders would suggest to me that time is the preferable measure.