At least he’s got some spot lights on it
Sent from my HD7 T9292 using Board Express
turnip:
Orys !
Your defence of all things eastern European and in particular the haulage industry are commendable. But to suggest that the large influx of eastern euro haulage companies has not affected western hauliers is delusional !Some people such as industry bosses and I would suggest some politicians are very happy with the fact that transportation costs have been driven lower. In 1990 you would hardly ever see a truck from east of the Oder in western Europe, now every second truck is sporting plates from pl, ro, Bg, etc.
So I have a question for you orys. How can this large fleet of eastern euro trucks not make a difference ■■
Off course they do a difference. But I am fed up with blaming them for everything.
I work here 7 years in transport industry and I do see things. Without going into particular, I dare to tell that, for example, in my place, and in few others I used to work, they should look at themselves first to lower the cost by stopping to waste huge amount of time and money and they would be able to compete with Eastern Europeans better.
Also: there seem to be that notion that poor British hauliers struggle and the Eastern Europe is blooming. These times are long gone. In 1990 we had boom, but as many of forum users pointed out, you also had a nice, easy life in European haulage up to 1990. Now the situation is different and many Polish hauliers struggle as much as Brtitish ones.
Just from the article I have open in second window: few years ago diesel in Poland was 60% cheaper than in Germany. Now its only 5% cheaper. Do you think the customers are happy with the prices up?
So yes, the influx of Eastern European hauliers made life of British hauliers harder and your goverment is stupid with allowing all that and with not charging foreigners for using your road, but there is still lot of things that can be done. There are still British companies that go over the water and doing well - do you think that Eastern European competition does not apply to them? Off course not, they are just better managed and they can compete better.
But you have also to remember that before 1990 the transport between eastern bloc and west Europe was next to none, now you have there 12 of countries with blooming economy to which many Western manufacturers moved their factories.Therefore its not so easy as you say “before 1990 there were no trucks from East of Oder and now is plenty” - nowadays there is much more to be transported and much more miles to be covered. Yes, they might get a bigger share of the cake, but the cake of 2012 is much, much bigger than cake in 1990.
Well put orys. I think that pretty much sums up the way things have changed in the last 20 years.
As for the sudden influx of RH drive units on eastern euro plates I started a thread on this a few months ago and as expected the consensus was it allowed them to operate considerably cheaper than a uk registered truck on similar work.
Now we all know that dock traction rates have always been at the lower end of the payscale and I don’t doubt that it has seen similar reductions in rates as the rest of the haulage industry. If these trucks are working legally then I afraid it just tough and if by lowering their costs they can make money at traction work then all power to them. IF on the other hand they are using the eastern euro plates purely as a means of avoiding regulation and the costs associated with it then it needs stopping. After all most ports with dock work will have a gathering of these trucks at weekends so a few checks shouldn’t be too much to organise and as we know VOSA are happy enough to flex their muscles these days.
Just out of interest does anybody know if these trucks are actually run by eastern euro firms or have a few if the industries wide boys discovered another loophole to exploit for a few years?.
Cheers
Neilf
alix776:
At least he’s got some spot lights on it
I had to move a Daf CF recently and I’ve never driven anything like it. You sit in a really deep well, and you can only just see above the dashboard. I used to wonder why they all seemed to be driven by dwarves, I used to think maybe Daf supplied one with the truck. 
orys:
So yes, the influx of Eastern European hauliers made life of British hauliers harder .
We agree then !
turnip:
orys:
So yes, the influx of Eastern European hauliers made life of British hauliers harder .We agree then !
My point exactly: its only the bit you quoted that you are interested in 
OK Orys, I give in. You are right and I am wrong.
It wasn’t better when Britain had an international haulage industry, it was better after it all closed down. I was hallucinating.
Thank God 99% of the trucks on the Dover ferries are from Poland and Lithuania now, this has made work for British drivers so much easier to find.
As I said, I was hallucinating. Imagining things. I’m sorry.
Harry Monk:
OK Orys, I give in. You are right and I am wrong.It wasn’t better when Britain had an international haulage industry, it was better after it all closed down. I was hallucinating.
Thank God 99% of the trucks on the Dover ferries are from Poland and Lithuania now, this has made work for British drivers so much easier to find.
As I said, I was hallucinating. Imagining things. I’m sorry.
Missplaced sarcasm. All what I say is that influx of Eastern European hauliers is just one of many factors that changed the British transport industry over recent years.
Yous just hear what you want to hear, as its easier for you to blame Eastern Europeans for everything. And even if this is true, you can still do many things about that, if you look at yourself, not at them. But you would like just to go on as usual and blame Poles for that it is no longer possible.
Example: My boss complains that Poles drive him off the market then sends me with loaded 3.6 metre tall sprinter courtansider from Gent in Belgium to Austria to pick up the driver from there, whos van was broken down. Just fuel and my salary for that expedition was nearly three times more expensive than putting the guy onto the sleeper train. The guy speaks perfect German, the train station was located 200 m from the hotel he was waiting for me and as I checked it would require just two changes, including one two stations from that place and another one in Brussel to get to London… How Poles are to blame for that my company wasted so much money on that?
Another example: I got the phone call “go to southern Slovenia” so I am going all the way down there from Vienna only to find, that they mixed up Slovenia and Slovakia.
Another example: I am telling my boss “the gearbox in this van is ■■■■■■” They tell me “oh, it will be all right, just load the van” and sends it to Italy (with different driver who don’t cares). The van brokes down just off Calais and they have to recover it back to UK.
Another example: I am in Slovakia, they tell me to go to Dusseldorf when I will have “return load” in two days. I am offering to them that I will find some load from Southern Poland to Western Germany to make some extra money on the way (I know some girl who runs a small spedition company in Poland). They say “no, it makes no sense, Eastern Europeans dont pay enough, so its better for us to run empty”.
Another example: In my place, no matter what’s going on, the guys from the office quit at 5pm and sometimes you are left alone and have to wait with your problem till the morning as “I am on call, but its X’s job, so I don’t know about it, just wait till the morning” and I am paid per hour… In my view it would be better to pay the guy even 50 pounds to sort that problem after the office hour, than to pay me for 15 hours at my rate…
I can go on and on with examples like that. I do agree that Eastern European competition makes your life tougher, but this is the very reason why you should stop wasting time and money like that. Polish companies I know are cheaper, that’s true and you can’t do much about thing, but they are also better managed, and you can do plenty on that field. In my private view, British companies are often so used to this good old times where everything was easy to them, that they dont want to bother.
For Polish office guy its not a problem to answer the phone after his working hours and to spend 5 minutes or something. For many Britons it is. The same goes with the driver. Most of the people from this forum would like to go to Europe, preferably to some nice places like southern France or Italy, but they think that being weekended away from home is a disaster. With that attitude you can compete with Eastern European or even German drivers who work on 3 weeks on - week off basis or similar.
I think this difference in attitude comes from that in East Europe we are used to work hard, to go the extra mile, because during the comunist era and first 10 years after the transition, we had to work really hard to assure the basic things. In the same time, you had relatively comfortable life when you can finish your work at 5pm and go and relax in the pub, spending Eastern European monthly salary in just one evening. Today these two words have met, and if you want to compete, you have to try harder. In a way you can say its Karma - you had easier life for 50 years after the war, now you have to try harder…
So yes, its harder life for you now, but stop moaning about Eastern Europeans - their life is no milk and honey as well. Instead of that look at yourself, because this is where you can do something. Some Scottish companies I know stopped to go to Europe altogether and blame Eastern Europeans for that. We still do (altough not as much, as we used to) and our company is growing, thanks to my boss, who works hard and have a good ideas.
There are numerous companies that are standing against eastern European competition - for example the van place that animal did that unfortunate run to Romania took over the job from the Polish company, while paying much better than Polish companies do. So obviously it is possible (and there is still plenty of space for some misfortunes like hers…)
This is another example: animal’s story was ubelievable for me - I never heard of the adventures like that - driving through half of the Europe to get the mobile signal… So far the worst story from Poland I heard was about some young driver whos sat nav broke, who got lost and completed two circles on Berliner ring before he realised…
And this is only the bit about Eastern European. I am sure you also noticed that fuel prices everywhere in the word went sky high (no blame to Eastern European on that), that we have a great worldwide crisis with biggest economy downturn since 1930s (no blame to EE for that I guess as well), that new EU regulations require hauliers to spent more and more money on some beaurocratic mumbo jumbo that used to be non existend etc etc etc. Expansion of Europe is just the one factor of many, that influenced situation in the British Hauling Industry. And I think it is open for discussion if this Eastern European invasion is its biggest problem…
And there has to be some conspiracy going on, as when I go onto the ferry or into the tunnel, there is loads of Polsih and Lithuanian trucks, but there is always also plenty of Spanish, Dutch, German, French etc…
orys:
turnip:
orys:
So yes, the influx of Eastern European hauliers made life of British hauliers harder .We agree then !
My point exactly: its only the bit you quoted that you are interested in
I like to keep to the facts ! My point was the opening up of eastern Europe has negatively affected hauliers in the west. Whatever the reasons.
You seemed to be suggesting that wasn’t the case, and we are the architects of our own downfall.
But you cannot disagree that british international hauliers have declined due to the rise of the east. FACT.
orys i think your missing the point,
the first posting on here was about the state of the motor,
and like nextdrop said vosa are making uk based companys jump through hoops just to keep a motor on the road, you try running a motor in that state on uk plates and see how far you get .
turnip:
I like to keep to the facts ! My point was the opening up of eastern Europe has negatively affected hauliers in the west. Whatever the reasons.
You seemed to be suggesting that wasn’t the case, and we are the architects of our own downfall.
But you cannot disagree that british international hauliers have declined due to the rise of the east. FACT.
No. What I say is that this is just one of many factors, and you seem to want to blame them for everything. This is the difference between you and me…
gazza1970:
orys i think your missing the point,
the first posting on here was about the state of the motor,
and like nextdrop said vosa are making uk based companys jump through hoops just to keep a motor on the road, you try running a motor in that state on uk plates and see how far you get .
He expressed his concerns about the safety of these vehicles based on how these vehicles look like because some minor things were missing or fixed with tape.
I know many British companies whos trucks LOOKS bad. Bah, the vans in my place looks so crap, that when I was in Croatia Bosnians ans Serbs were asking me, if I am not afraid to drive such a banger for so long distance… So the look of the van is not everything. When on agency driving I had, on numerous occasion, to refuse to drive British vehicle due to safety reasons.
Moreover unlike most of people on this forum I am in that position that I do know requirements in Britain and in Poland. And contrary to popular belief, I don’t think that it’s harder to get MOT here… I think quite the opposite, at least for the cars. First: you have just the basic MOT, while in Poland its more complicated. Second, there are some rules like in Britain they just check the basic things. In Poland - if something (for example extra lights bar) is fitted to the vehicle, it has to be working for it to pass the test. Third: we for example have special MOTs for the vehicles that were involved in an accident where apart from standard MOT stuff quality of repairs is tested. No such thing exist in UK, and, as I just discovered after my recent trip to Poland, my car would not pass MOT there after the accident and scottish repair - it passed two warranty checks and one MOT here without any problems… Fourth: I know, that Poland is well known for corruption, but when it comes to MOT i doubt it is worse than here… In Poland MOT stations are much more big things, so the risk of loosing the license to do MOT is too great. Here in Scotland i can bet that I can organise phony MOT no problem just observing how people (Both Scots and Poles) are dealing with their MOT problems…
So for me this is just another thread like “this guys are from eastern european, so they steal our job, I am sure they are not insured and have no MOT, because this is what Eastern Europeans do” which is simply complete ■■■■■■■■.
orys:
turnip:
I like to keep to the facts ! My point was the opening up of eastern Europe has negatively affected hauliers in the west. Whatever the reasons.
You seemed to be suggesting that wasn’t the case, and we are the architects of our own downfall.
But you cannot disagree that british international hauliers have declined due to the rise of the east. FACT.No. What I say is that this is just one of many factors, and you seem to want to blame them for everything. This is the difference between you and me…
I don’t recall blaming “everything” on polish people !
But when someone points out the bloody obvious ie :- things are harder since Opening up of the eu , you jump on your pedestal and bang your drum.
In fact I don’t blame Poland for anything or anyone else for that matter. It’s purely a situation that exists.
Orys never once on this forum have i blamed operators from Eastern Europe i realise that if any combination of wages, taxes, fuel duty vat and anything else is lower it will allow the operator to be at least able to undercut me.
What you fail to accept is that in poland isn’t the only state in eastern europe the picture you paint of poland is that trucks are operated under similar conditions to the uk and having sat behind a truck from poland this afternoon (west transport) i cannot see the difference betwen that and good uk operator.
What you haven’t been able to answer is how vehicles registered in the eu and in particular from certain eastern states are able.
Constantly work away from their base -
Appear to be able to be registered by a proxy system
Whilst i understand you are well qualified to talk about Poland are you able to talk about Latvia Slovakia and other states where trucks appear to be from?
I could write an essay about Latvia, and the situation over there, but I just dont see a reason why I should do it(I will leave it to Orys) because the % of LV registered trucks in UK comparing to PL, RO, LT is a lot smaller and I dont think they make any difference in the UK haulage industry.
orys:
Harry Monk:
OK Orys, I give in. You are right and I am wrong.It wasn’t better when Britain had an international haulage industry, it was better after it all closed down. I was hallucinating.
Thank God 99% of the trucks on the Dover ferries are from Poland and Lithuania now, this has made work for British drivers so much easier to find.
As I said, I was hallucinating. Imagining things. I’m sorry.
Missplaced sarcasm. All what I say is that influx of Eastern European hauliers is just one of many factors that changed the British transport industry over recent years.
Yous just hear what you want to hear, as its easier for you to blame Eastern Europeans for everything. And even if this is true, you can still do many things about that, if you look at yourself, not at them. But you would like just to go on as usual and blame Poles for that it is no longer possible.
Example: My boss complains that Poles drive him off the market then sends me with loaded 3.6 metre tall sprinter courtansider from Gent in Belgium to Austria to pick up the driver from there, whos van was broken down. Just fuel and my salary for that expedition was nearly three times more expensive than putting the guy onto the sleeper train. The guy speaks perfect German, the train station was located 200 m from the hotel he was waiting for me and as I checked it would require just two changes, including one two stations from that place and another one in Brussel to get to London… How Poles are to blame for that my company wasted so much money on that?
Another example: I got the phone call “go to southern Slovenia” so I am going all the way down there from Vienna only to find, that they mixed up Slovenia and Slovakia.
Another example: I am telling my boss “the gearbox in this van is [zb]” They tell me “oh, it will be all right, just load the van” and sends it to Italy (with different driver who don’t cares). The van brokes down just off Calais and they have to recover it back to UK.
Another example: I am in Slovakia, they tell me to go to Dusseldorf when I will have “return load” in two days. I am offering to them that I will find some load from Southern Poland to Western Germany to make some extra money on the way (I know some girl who runs a small spedition company in Poland). They say “no, it makes no sense, Eastern Europeans dont pay enough, so its better for us to run empty”.
Another example: In my place, no matter what’s going on, the guys from the office quit at 5pm and sometimes you are left alone and have to wait with your problem till the morning as “I am on call, but its X’s job, so I don’t know about it, just wait till the morning” and I am paid per hour… In my view it would be better to pay the guy even 50 pounds to sort that problem after the office hour, than to pay me for 15 hours at my rate…
I can go on and on with examples like that. I do agree that Eastern European competition makes your life tougher, but this is the very reason why you should stop wasting time and money like that. Polish companies I know are cheaper, that’s true and you can’t do much about thing, but they are also better managed, and you can do plenty on that field. In my private view, British companies are often so used to this good old times where everything was easy to them, that they dont want to bother.
For Polish office guy its not a problem to answer the phone after his working hours and to spend 5 minutes or something. For many Britons it is. The same goes with the driver. Most of the people from this forum would like to go to Europe, preferably to some nice places like southern France or Italy, but they think that being weekended away from home is a disaster. With that attitude you can compete with Eastern European or even German drivers who work on 3 weeks on - week off basis or similar.
I think this difference in attitude comes from that in East Europe we are used to work hard, to go the extra mile, because during the comunist era and first 10 years after the transition, we had to work really hard to assure the basic things. In the same time, you had relatively comfortable life when you can finish your work at 5pm and go and relax in the pub, spending Eastern European monthly salary in just one evening. Today these two words have met, and if you want to compete, you have to try harder. In a way you can say its Karma - you had easier life for 50 years after the war, now you have to try harder…
So yes, its harder life for you now, but stop moaning about Eastern Europeans - their life is no milk and honey as well. Instead of that look at yourself, because this is where you can do something. Some Scottish companies I know stopped to go to Europe altogether and blame Eastern Europeans for that. We still do (altough not as much, as we used to) and our company is growing, thanks to my boss, who works hard and have a good ideas.
There are numerous companies that are standing against eastern European competition - for example the van place that animal did that unfortunate run to Romania took over the job from the Polish company, while paying much better than Polish companies do. So obviously it is possible (and there is still plenty of space for some misfortunes like hers…)
This is another example: animal’s story was ubelievable for me - I never heard of the adventures like that - driving through half of the Europe to get the mobile signal… So far the worst story from Poland I heard was about some young driver whos sat nav broke, who got lost and completed two circles on Berliner ring before he realised…
And this is only the bit about Eastern European. I am sure you also noticed that fuel prices everywhere in the word went sky high (no blame to Eastern European on that), that we have a great worldwide crisis with biggest economy downturn since 1930s (no blame to EE for that I guess as well), that new EU regulations require hauliers to spent more and more money on some beaurocratic mumbo jumbo that used to be non existend etc etc etc. Expansion of Europe is just the one factor of many, that influenced situation in the British Hauling Industry. And I think it is open for discussion if this Eastern European invasion is its biggest problem…
And there has to be some conspiracy going on, as when I go onto the ferry or into the tunnel, there is loads of Polsih and Lithuanian trucks, but there is always also plenty of Spanish, Dutch, German, French etc…
Although Orys does go on a bit, (or even a lot ), he has got a point.
Plenty of British hauliers give every appearance of being extremely inefficient and disorganised. Inefficiency costs money. Money you can ill afford to loose, especially when things get tight.
There is a large pool of British drivers quite happy to be away for 3 - 6 weeks at a time. I used to do it. I only stopped doing it when I was offered a job with a company who only sends me away for 5 or 6 days.
I quite like this job, I get some home life and I get around a bit. If things change and I’d do better being away longer, I personally would be quite happily do it.
I’d prefer the shorter trips for personal reasons not connected to the job directly.
I am glad then that we explained some thing to each other…
To sum it up I try to put it shortly: you (as british haulage in general) can’t do much about influx of eastern european trucks, but you can do a lot to be more efficient. And then you can compete better with EE.
As for the other countries from Eastern Europe: the ones I know (Czech Republic, Slovakia, Estonia) have similar system to a Polish one. I can’t say much about Romania and Bulgaria but from what some expats from this forum says, it is not so bad in Bulgaria as well…
It’s worth noting that the other main factor in the demise of the British " European " haulier ( not domestic ) is the fact that we are a nett importer ! There are simply more trucks than loads in the uk, at any given time.
orys:
I am glad then that we explained some thing to each other…To sum it up I try to put it shortly: you (as british haulage in general) can’t do much about influx of eastern european trucks, but you can do a lot to be more efficient. And then you can compete better with EE. …
well theres Issue No 1 right there…Fuel Cost.
No 2 Issue Wages…
No 3 Issue Cost of Living…
So Orys tell me… how do you compete.?
Theres tonnes of stories about all Eastern Europeans coming to the West , in particular UK / Ireland to claim off the state and send it back home… even gettin weekly flights here to sign on and then head back… joke!
There are also the EE who spend time working here at the expense of others …and send the money back home…
I was told about an EE Lorry pullin a Fridge for Fastcool from Kent… an Atego regeistered from Bulgaria…whole family was in the truck. Travellin Knackers in a HGV doin the work for fraction of the cost a normal UK subbie would do it fr… puttin some hard workin UK based haulier probably outta business.
So Orys, dont come on here spouting ye gob off sayin UK hauliers need to be more competitive when the vast majority of the Eastern Europeans come here with one purpose:
To undercut every decent hard workin person and to rip every decent taxpayer off via one form or another.
routier:
orys:
I am glad then that we explained some thing to each other…To sum it up I try to put it shortly: you (as british haulage in general) can’t do much about influx of eastern european trucks, but you can do a lot to be more efficient. And then you can compete better with EE. …
well theres Issue No 1 right there…Fuel Cost.
No 2 Issue Wages…
No 3 Issue Cost of Living…
So Orys tell me… how do you compete.?
Theres tonnes of stories about all Eastern Europeans coming to the West
I was told about an EE Lorry pullin a Fridge for
In was told that I had to take a 30 minute break before 6 hours of work was done on a hours and tacho course. This course was done as a result of having to comply with DCPC rules and this is what the JAUPT approved trainer on the course told us.
Sound familiar?
It doesn’t make it true though.
Simon:
routier:
orys:
I am glad then that we explained some thing to each other…To sum it up I try to put it shortly: you (as british haulage in general) can’t do much about influx of eastern european trucks, but you can do a lot to be more efficient. And then you can compete better with EE. …
well theres Issue No 1 right there…Fuel Cost.
No 2 Issue Wages…
No 3 Issue Cost of Living…
So Orys tell me… how do you compete.?
Theres tonnes of stories about all Eastern Europeans coming to the West
I was told about an EE Lorry pullin a Fridge for
In was told that I had to take a 30 minute break before 6 hours of work was done on a hours and tacho course. This course was done as a result of having to comply with DCPC rules and this is what the JAUPT approved trainer on the course told us.
Sound familiar?
It doesn’t make it true though.
Well I dont doubt a member of my own family who saw the vehicle in Dover and has contacts at the aforesaid company so YES it does make it true.
Correct me otherwise Simon.