One minute rule tacho

Tarmac duck:
Thanks again for your replies they are just what i was looking for. Should i go and spend £550 on something i can ill afford and do not really need ? Could i be fairly prosecuted for minor infringements i.e. 10-15 mins over a 4.5 hour driving period ? I think not ! At the moment i am very busy, (burning diesel) yesterday i was 8 mins over my second driving period and 10 mins today, is that an offence?

Unless there was an unexpected event caused the dealy and a manual record of this was made - then yes that is an offence.

Frequent offences of this nature will also get you in far more trouble than an occasional offence. Infrequent offences would likely just attract a fixed penalty. Frequent - probably worse

shep532:
However … this is all just theory as I haven’t tried it. :unamused: Anyone gonna give it a go and let me know?

The way I understand it is this.

Any minute in which there is any driving counts as driving.
Any minute which is not driving but has a driving minute either side of it is also recorded as driving.

This is why in stop start traffic you can be stationary for almost 3 minutes and it will still record driving all the way through, leading people to think they have been robbed, as you could drive right at the start of one minute for a few seconds, then be stationary for 2min50sec and then drive right at the end of the third minute and it all goes down as driving.

As far as I’m aware pratting about with the mode switch doesn’t change this behaviour but I could well be wrong.

Paul

repton:

shep532:
However … this is all just theory as I haven’t tried it. :unamused: Anyone gonna give it a go and let me know?

The way I understand it is this.

Any minute in which there is any driving counts as driving.
Any minute which is not driving but has a driving minute either side of it is also recorded as driving.

This is why in stop start traffic you can be stationary for almost 3 minutes and it will still record driving all the way through, leading people to think they have been robbed, as you could drive right at the start of one minute for a few seconds, then be stationary for 2min50sec and then drive right at the end of the third minute and it all goes down as driving.

As far as I’m aware pratting about with the mode switch doesn’t change this behaviour but I could well be wrong.

Paul

I believe Shep532 has probably got this information from a Siemens digital tachograph instruction manual for the early digital tachographs.

The way Shep has described this is accurate according to the early Siemens instruction manuals and in fact when I first started using digital tachographs I tried manually changing the mode but can’t honestly say I noticed any difference.

It’s interesting to note that the description in the original instruction manual on page 42 isn’t in later editions of the manual.

Scan from the original Siemens instruction manual

I’ve attempted to simulate this on the digi simulator but can’t tell if it works or the simulator isn’t that clever.

I am however of the opinion that this does work - obviously not on the very latest generation of tacho.

I have to admit I do give this little gem of advice to some drivers during DCPC sessions - so I hope I am right or I just become another ‘giving out ■■■■■ advice’ CPC trainer :unamused:

Come on - somebody try it for me :smiley:

I don’t have time to go through the tachograph specifications now, but as far as I’m aware the early digital tachographs were only capable of recording driving time in whole minutes so it couldn’t have recorded other work from the time the vehicle stopped, the best it could have done would be to record other work from the nearest minute after the vehicle stopped :wink:

tachograph:
I don’t have time to go through the tachograph specifications now, but as far as I’m aware the early digital tachographs were only capable of recording driving time in whole minutes so it couldn’t have recorded other work from the time the vehicle stopped, the best it could have done would be to record other work from the nearest minute after the vehicle stopped :wink:

Yes that sounds good … and it would save on driving time in stop start traffic when compared to not selecting the mode manually.

But … if the vehicle stopped at 23 minutes and 20 seconds - why couldn’t it go back to the 23 minutes with whatever mode is selected manually? It’d still be recording a full minute but …

I’m sure someone will turn up with the answer - meanwhile I’ll miss it out of any DCPC I deliver

The differences in the ‘one minute rule’ can be found by comparing the latest 01.10.2011 consolidated version of EU Regulation 1985/3821 with an older version.

Here’s the latest version (it’s paragraphs 041 and 042 of Chapter II of Annex 1B on page 43 of the PDF). The changes are marked M15, indicating they were introduced by EU Regulation 1266/2009. These are the rules used by the new ‘one minute rule’ digital tachographs.

(there is no paragraph 040)

041 Given a calendar minute, if DRIVING is registered as the activity of both the immediately preceding and immediately succeeding minute, the whole minute shall be regarded as DRIVING.

042 Given a calendar minute that is not regarded as DRIVING according to the previous requirement 041, the whole minute shall be regarded to be of the same type of activity as the longest continuous activity within the minute (or the latest of equally long activities).

The previous consolidated version was on 01.11.2010, which does not incorporate these amendments. In this version, the rules are paragraphs 040 to 043 of Chapter II of Annex 1B on page 36 of the PDF. These are the rules used by the older digital tachographs.

040 Given a calendar minute, if any DRIVING activity has occurred within the minute, the whole minute shall be regarded as DRIVING.

041 Given a calendar minute, if any DRIVING activity has occurred within both the immediately preceding and the immediately succeeding minute, the whole minute shall be regarded as DRIVING.

042 Given a calendar minute that is not regarded as DRIVING according to previous requirements, the whole minute shall be regarded to be of the same type of activity as the longest continuous activity within the minute (or the latest of the equally longest).

It can be seen that both sets of regulations are based around calendar minutes - i.e. ■■:■■:00 to ■■:■■:59. Apart from minor textual changes, paragraphs 041 and 042 are the same in both versions of the regulations. The difference is that paragraph 040 is deleted in the newer regulations.

Paragraph 040 in the old version is very strict - any output from the speed sensor in that calendar minute makes it a driving minute.

It’s easiest to see the differences with some worked examples.

Example 1

Card inserted
Minute 1 - 60s other work
Minute 2 - 30s other work, 5s driving, 25s other work
Minute 3 - 60s other work
Card ejected

On both sets of rules, minutes 1 and 3 are other work. On the older rules, paragraph 040 means minute 2 is driving. On the newer rules, minute 2 is decided on paragraph 042 - the longest continuous activity is other work, so it’s recorded as other work.

Driving time saved by ‘one minute rule’ tacho - 1 minute.

Example 2

Card inserted
Minute 1 - 60s other work
Minute 2 - 10s driving, 10s other work, 10s driving, 10s other work, 10s driving, 10s other work
Minute 3 - 60s other work
Card ejected

Again, on both sets of rules, minutes 1 and 3 are other work. Again, on the older rules, paragraph 040 means minute 2 is driving. On the newer rules, minute 2 is decided on paragraph 042 - there are several equally long activities and the latest is other work, so the minute is other work.

Driving time saved by ‘one minute rule’ tacho - 1 minute.

Example 3

Card inserted
Minute 1 - 50s other work, 10s driving
Minute 2 - 10s other work, 10s driving, 10s other work, 10s driving, 20s other work
Minute 3 - 60s other work
Card ejected

This is the same as Example 2, but the events happened 10 seconds earlier on the tachographs clock. As you will see, the raster imposed by ‘calendar minute’ is important.

On both sets of rules, minute 3 is other work.

On the older rules, paragraph 040 means minutes 1 and 2 are driving.

On the newer rules, minutes 1 and 2 is decided on paragraph 042. In both minutes, the longest continuous activity is other work - so both are other work.

Driving time saved by ‘one minute rule’ tacho - 2 minutes.

Now, let’s look at more than three minutes in isolation, so paragraph 041 comes into operation.

Example 4

Card inserted
Minute 1 - 50s other work, 10s driving
Minute 2 - 10s other work, 10s driving, 10s other work, 10s driving, 20s other work
Minute 3 - 60s other work
Minute 4 - 30s driving, 30s other work
Minute 5 - 30s other work, 30s driving
Minute 6 - 60s driving
Minute 7 - 30s other work, 30s driving
Minute 8 - 25s driving, 35s other work
Minute 9 - 60s other work
Minute 10 - 2s driving, 58s other work
Minute 11 - 60s other work
Minute 12 - 60s other work
Minute 13 - 60s other work
Card ejected

The easiest way to work this out is to look first at what paragraphs 040 (old rules only) and 042 make of each minute, then apply paragraph 041.

Under the old rules, paragraph 040 makes minutes 1, 2, 4-8 and 10 driving as there’s some driving recorded. Minutes 3, 9 and 11-13 are all other work - being entirely other work, paragraph 042 doesn’t change anything.

You then need to run through and apply paragraph 041. This makes minute 3 driving - there’s driving activity in minutes 2 and 4. It also makes minute 9 driving - there’s driving activity in minutes 8 and 10.

So, this is a total of 10 minutes driving on an older digital tachograph.

Under the new rules, paragraph 042 has to be applied first:

Minute 1 - other work (longest continuous period is other work)
Minute 2 - other work (longest continuous period is other work)
Minute 3 - other work (entirely other work)
Minute 4 - other work (longest continuous periods are driving and other work; other work is the latest equally long continuous period)
Minute 5 - driving (longest continuous periods are driving and other work; driving is the latest equally long continuous period)
Minute 6 - driving (entirely driving)
Minute 7 - driving (longest continuous periods are driving and other work; driving is the latest equally long continuous period)
Minute 8 - other work (longest continuous period is other work)
Minute 9 - other work (entirely other work)
Minute 10 - other work (longest continuous period is other work)
Minute 11 - other work (entirely other work)
Minute 12 - other work (entirely other work)
Minute 13 - other work (entirely other work)

You then need to apply paragraph 041, but that changes nothing as there’s no minutes that have driving on either side but are not already driving.

This is a total of 3 minutes driving on a new digital tachograph.

Driving time saved by ‘one minute rule’ tacho - 7 minutes.

As can be seen, the new tachographs can make quite a difference in stop start traffic! Both examples 1 and 2 are more interesting if the mode switch is on break, as a ‘one minute rule’ tachograph wouldn’t come off break.

Does that help?

Stoneridge were offering a part exchange for the old stoneridge digi to a new one when they first came out, not sure if they’re still doing it.

malcolmj:
i have a brand new 12 plate merc to drive and on the same run as a 10 plate daf from Rotterdam to Orleans with tipping and loading the same place’s I did over 20 mins less driving I also had to do a trailer change. but as soon as it moves it wont record as on break it defaults to other work as soon as it stops (the DAF defaults to break)

from rotterdam to orleans is such a distance that 20 mins differance is fair enough.

After all your thoughts and experiances i had a vdo tacho fitted two weeks ago (£530 :frowning: ). But the differance in daily running is absolutely remarkable :smiley: . I am no longer constantly watching the clock and fail to get anywhere near the end of my second 4.5 hour period. On the whole i consider it a very wise investment,its just a pity i have endured 5 years of torment with a mark 1 digi tacho.