the maoster:
CF I just luuurve how you who hasn’t dropped anything larger than a ■■■■ let alone a trailer this century insists that we are doing it all wrong! I usually change trailers once or as many as four times a day using the method that Reef posted above, yet I’m wrong! You are constant if nothing else.
To be fair night trunking wasn’t exactly known for its lack of trailer swaps in a shift.Feel free to confirm your preferred method by posting some coupling training vids there are plenty out there.Oh wait they mostly if not all seem to confirm my view.
Not yours and all produced in the 21st century.
Which part of,probably because your method is no where near fool proof in introducing way too many variables and room for error between 2 - 3,don’t you understand.All for what.
My money is on a new jaw over adjusted on a worn pin ,then the unit gets under another trailer with a new or good pin then soon after jaw cracks ,or releases .
Reef:
Carryfast:
While going under low and then lifting the unit,hopefully before the pin has entered the jaws,introduces too many variables and room for error in that regard.The trailer needs to be sitting at a lower height than the fifth wheel from the start so that it’s ‘lifted’ and resting with all of its weight on the fifth wheel from the first point of contact.
Forget your archaic “pre air” coupling technique and show some sympathy towards the equipment, which you may well find out for yourself if you ever end up gainfully employed in the 21st century!
1, Approach low (air down)
2, STOP when fifth wheel has gone under trailer
3, RAISE suspension until trailer visibly lifts a few inches
4, Reverse until cli-clunk of fifth wheel jaws locks around pin
5, When trailer is all attached, checked and ready to drive away reset air to drive position.
If/when you become competent enough you’ll do steps 1 through 4 in one single fluid precise manoeuvre knowing exactly how far under the trailer you’ve gone via visual and audible cues, but for you cf i suggest baby steps as you may struggle with so many button presses on the new fangled remote whatsibob.
Reef - you are experienced. And this is exactly how I was trained to do it and how I’ve always done it. Including uncoupling move forward about 12 inches. Hear the click. Lower air.
But when doing that. If I can put the dog clip in, is there still a risk I’ll drop a trailer going down the motorway? I could start getting under the trailer with torches etc - but I’ve never been told to do this, not at Sainsburys, Tescos, DHL or the place I did my training. In fact some of those firms would likely ban me from site if they found me crawling under the trailers.
I do a fair amount of trailer swaps atm. And I really don’t want this happening to me.
Carryfast:
Reef:
Carryfast:
While going under low and then lifting the unit,hopefully before the pin has entered the jaws,introduces too many variables and room for error in that regard.The trailer needs to be sitting at a lower height than the fifth wheel from the start so that it’s ‘lifted’ and resting with all of its weight on the fifth wheel from the first point of contact.
Forget your archaic “pre air” coupling technique and show some sympathy towards the equipment, which you may well find out for yourself if you ever end up gainfully employed in the 21st century!
1, Approach low (air down)
2, STOP when fifth wheel has gone under trailer
3, RAISE suspension until trailer visibly lifts a few inches
4, Reverse until cli-clunk of fifth wheel jaws locks around pin
5, When trailer is all attached, checked and ready to drive away reset air to drive position.
If/when you become competent enough you’ll do steps 1 through 4 in one single fluid precise manoeuvre knowing exactly how far under the trailer you’ve gone via visual and audible cues, but for you cf i suggest baby steps as you may struggle with so many button presses on the new fangled remote whatsibob.
As I said it can all go horribly wrong if/when someone inevitably gets 2 and 3 even slightly wrong.In which case 3-5 will still happen effectively as described with the added bonus of 6 lose trailer at any random point.Which is probably why training schools obviously still use my ‘archaic’ method on the basis if it ain’t broke don’t fix it ( also probably don’t want the inconvenience of someone saying this is how I was shown in the investigations into the resulting carnage ).Bearing in mind that I was quite familiar with air and a remote whatsit on later DAF’s.Strange how I very rarely,if ever,needed to use it to couple or uncouple anything just as shown in the numerous training vids out there.
I was trained by the forum sponsor who are a respected firm. And they showed me to use air suspention. And the examiner had no problem with it…
And Tesco want it done that way. Sainsburys want it done that way. DHL want it done that way. Even co-op want it done that way. I hardly think all those companies, trainers and government examiners are all wrong. I however may be as what I know about driving you can fit on a postage stamp.
Do it like you’ve been showed.
You won’t go wrong.
Carryfast:
Which part of,probably because your method is no where near fool proof in introducing way too many variables and room for error between 2 - 3,don’t you understand.All for what.
Seriously mate, that ^^^ is just more nonsensical word soup! Its recognisably English, but that’s where any similarities stop.
I did however understand that you were vaguely referring to training videos somewhere in your dialogue. I’ve figured that therin lies your problem; you spend hours watching videos on t’interweb as a sort of “keeping up with the times” kind of thing. I don’t watch them tbh but I’d hazard a guess that they were made by a man called Clive who is sporting a flat cap and a long brown coat and perhaps smoking a pipe, and in a strange twist of fate Clive, like you lives in theory world and doesn’t actually do the job for a living. Therefore Clive, like yourself is fundamentally wrong in his approach.
I’m leaning against an open door here but I’ll repeat what you’ve been told many times; air suspension is an aid. Use it as intended. Honestly CF you make me think that if you moved into a fully furnished house you’d sneer at the washing machine and continue to take your clothes to the stream and beat them with rocks!
As Luke said - a contrarian.
switchlogic:
If he does start driving trucks again he’ll be horrified at how rare run up ramps are becoming! A lot of the companies I’ve worked for take them off to avoid Carryfasts brutal coupling method. You’d think a former engineer would have more mechanical sympathy 
Here’s a clue fifth wheel couplings are designed and meant to be coupled using ‘my brutal method’.
So here we are with trailers falling off all over the place.Might as well remove the V and the tapered forks which form the rear of the fifth wheel by your logic.While jaws inevitably raised against a fouled pin ain’t exactly conducive to Fifth Wheel durability let alone road safety.
the maoster:
Carryfast:
Which part of,probably because your method is no where near fool proof in introducing way too many variables and room for error between 2 - 3,don’t you understand.All for what.
Seriously mate, that ^^^ is just more nonsensical word soup! Its recognisably English, but that’s where any similarities stop.
I did however understand that you were vaguely referring to training videos somewhere in your dialogue. I’ve figured that therin lies your problem; you spend hours watching videos on t’interweb as a sort of “keeping up with the times” kind of thing. I don’t watch them tbh but I’d hazard a guess that they were made by a man called Clive who is sporting a flat cap and a long brown coat and perhaps smoking a pipe, and in a strange twist of fate Clive, like you lives in theory world and doesn’t actually do the job for a living. Therefore Clive, like yourself is fundamentally wrong in his approach.
I’m leaning against an open door here but I’ll repeat what you’ve been told many times; air suspension is an aid. Use it as intended. Honestly CF you make me think that if you moved into a fully furnished house you’d sneer at the washing machine and continue to take your clothes to the stream and beat them with rocks!
As Luke said - a contrarian.
So just carry on telling new drivers to go under the trailer low then stop in time before the pin reaches the jaws,then raise the unit without ever fouling the pin, then couple it.What could possibly go wrong.
sammym:
But when doing that. If I can put the dog clip in, is there still a risk I’ll drop a trailer going down the motorway? I could start getting under the trailer with torches etc - but I’ve never been told to do this, not at Sainsburys, Tescos, DHL or the place I did my training. In fact some of those firms would likely ban me from site if they found me crawling under the trailers.
I do a fair amount of trailer swaps atm. And I really don’t want this happening to me.
I don’t go under the trailer to look up at the jaws, but what I always do is look from the side as I place the dog clip in that there is no gap between the fifth wheel & the trailer rubbing plate.
dave docwra:
sammym:
But when doing that. If I can put the dog clip in, is there still a risk I’ll drop a trailer going down the motorway? I could start getting under the trailer with torches etc - but I’ve never been told to do this, not at Sainsburys, Tescos, DHL or the place I did my training. In fact some of those firms would likely ban me from site if they found me crawling under the trailers.
I do a fair amount of trailer swaps atm. And I really don’t want this happening to me.
I don’t go under the trailer to look up at the jaws, but what I always do is look from the side as I place the dog clip in that there is no gap between the fifth wheel & the trailer rubbing plate.
My method is to raise the trailer up so that the legs are slightly in the air. Reef described it. I’m doing it all at once now. I like doing this as it even makes winding up the legs easier. So there can’t be any space between the 5th wheel and rubbing plate.
I think I’ll keep doing it the way I’ve been shown. I still do my tug tests and always put the dog clip in. If there were any resious risks the H&S firms would soon tell me I’m sure. I find the ‘click’ the giveaway. I have before coupled at an angle and had it not quite go in first time but I’ve not had the clip.
Everytime ive picked up a trailer ive always done it carryfasts way. 5th wheel slighly higher than trailer lifting in sliding under till pin clicks the giving a tug to make sure its locked in. Why anyonewould go i uner low then raise air baffles me.
No wonder there is trailers going awol.
cgscott:
Everytime ive picked up a trailer ive always done it carryfasts way. 5th wheel slighly higher than trailer lifting in sliding under till pin clicks the giving a tug to make sure its locked in. Why anyonewould go i uner low then raise air baffles me.
No wonder there is trailers going awol.
Going in the way you suggest cleans all the fifth wheel grease off the plate and drops it on the catwalk the idea is to keep the grease on the plate, the catwalk doesn’t need greasing.
Mazzer2:
cgscott:
Everytime ive picked up a trailer ive always done it carryfasts way. 5th wheel slighly higher than trailer lifting in sliding under till pin clicks the giving a tug to make sure its locked in. Why anyonewould go i uner low then raise air baffles me.
No wonder there is trailers going awol.
Going in the way you suggest cleans all the fifth wheel grease off the plate and drops it on the catwalk the idea is to keep the grease on the plate, the catwalk doesn’t need greasing.
Grease 5th wheel on a rwgular basis. Job done.
Punchy Dan:
My money is on a new jaw over adjusted on a worn pin ,then the unit gets under another trailer with a new or good pin then soon after jaw cracks ,or releases .
How worn is a worn pin?
Edit Just checked and from new to worn out the difference is only 2mm.
I havent seen a worn out trailer king pin for years now.
From memory total amount of play allowed when coupled up is 3/8 of an inch or 10mm, but would need to confirm that info?
You must remember that the eminent Carryfast did his training by reversing a Clydesdale or perhaps a Suffolk Punch upto the shafts and then connecting the leathers. The only air he understands is from when his power unit ■■■■■■.
sammym:
My method is to raise the trailer up so that the legs are slightly in the air. Reef described it. I’m doing it all at once now. I like doing this as it even makes winding up the legs easier. So there can’t be any space between the 5th wheel and rubbing plate.
I think I’ll keep doing it the way I’ve been shown. I still do my tug tests and always put the dog clip in. If there were any resious risks the H&S firms would soon tell me I’m sure. I find the ‘click’ the giveaway. I have before coupled at an angle and had it not quite go in first time but I’ve not had the clip.
Firstly that’s what is meant to happen and assuming the trailer plate is at a lower height than the fifth wheel from the start it will definitely happen.However going under low then lifting the trailer introduces room for error in the form of what if you’ve left it too late when you stop and the pin is then a result fouling the jaws when you lift. 
The fact is the trailer needs to be sitting on the fifth wheel from the start,lifted solely by the rearward movement of the unit.That’s why we had/have ramps and at least tapered forks on the rear of fifth wheel.Air suspension was never meant to replace their function.
Carryfast:
sammym:
My method is to raise the trailer up so that the legs are slightly in the air. Reef described it. I’m doing it all at once now. I like doing this as it even makes winding up the legs easier. So there can’t be any space between the 5th wheel and rubbing plate.
I think I’ll keep doing it the way I’ve been shown. I still do my tug tests and always put the dog clip in. If there were any resious risks the H&S firms would soon tell me I’m sure. I find the ‘click’ the giveaway. I have before coupled at an angle and had it not quite go in first time but I’ve not had the clip.
Firstly that’s what is meant to happen and assuming the trailer plate is at a lower height than the fifth wheel from the start it will definitely happen.However going under low then lifting the trailer introduces room for error in the form of what if you’ve left it too late when you stop and the pin is then a result fouling the jaws when you lift. The fact is the trailer needs to be sitting on the fifth wheel from the start,lifted solely by the rearward movement of the unit.That’s why we had/have ramps and at least tapered forks on the rear of fifth wheel.Air suspension was never meant to replace their function.
Nope…i’m not getting 5th wheel grease all over the catwalk and cosequently the airlines and myself, i know when i am under enough of the front of the trailer and central to it, to raise the unit suspension and then reverse to the pin without it “fouling the jaws” as you say, and as i nearly always pull a fridge i am doing a split couple anyway so i can see what’s happening before i go all the way back…HTH 
Oh so wrong AGAIN Carryfast. Many units these days don’t have or need lead on ramps because why? Oh that’s right, we have air lift and lower suspension! End of argument? Not on Carryfast’s nelly. Awaiting more carp.
switchlogic:
2. Trailers agent ‘falling off all over the place’, it’s still a very rare occurance thankfully
And yet here we are with the same subject and argument appearing again and again.Drivers asking how best to avoid it and then moaning about the answer when told how to do it properly.Bizzarre and even funny if it wasn’t so bleedin dangerous.