Don’t go He’s only just getting warmed up…
Nice to see you back Rob, you do raise some sensible arguments, of course there are people disagreeing with them just because of who put them forward, but the facts are still facts for anyone who is prepared to look at it in a grown up way 
As an ex O/D and small fleet owner I can say that I’m glad I did it, at times I earned a lot of money, other times I was robbing Peter to pay Paul. sometimes nobody got paid for a while, I made mistakes, but hopefully learned from them. Speaking of mistakes, the biggest one is becoming a sub contractor, if you don’t have direct work for at least 50% of your business then you’re just a jumped up company driver really, you may well earn more money, but only because someone else lets you, it only takes a change of management and you could find yourself out on your ear
Equipment wise, I ran a mixture of new and used, I’ve had old lorries that never cost me a penny, new lorries that cost me a bloody fortune and vice versa 
If I was asked to give advice I would say that the best I could do would be, do not think that being an O/D will get you in a better financial position, to really become successful you should have your personal finances in order before you even think about becoming an O/D 
kr79:
Even in the 80s and 90s rates for owner drivers doing Europe were probably lower than the should running with a belly tank full of red and with a wallet full of moody plastic was how most made a good living at euro work.
The tipper business was the same all the owner drivers I know who made good money was from fly tipping and buying tickets for imaginary loads of digger drivers
Jeezus alive man what are you implying ffs youth…
fly sheet:
kr79:
Even in the 80s and 90s rates for owner drivers doing Europe were probably lower than the should running with a belly tank full of red and with a wallet full of moody plastic was how most made a good living at euro work.
The tipper business was the same all the owner drivers I know who made good money was from fly tipping and buying tickets for imaginary loads of digger driversJeezus alive man what are you implying ffs youth…
Loose lips sink ships…
If such things did happen, then the sensible person would’ve been charging the same rate and putting more cash in the bank in an entirely self serving way 
However, as is usually the case, people who had no place in the game would’ve been undercutting each other and creating a new lowest common demoninator for the rest to try to work against 
All that rate cutting nonsense is a race straight to the bottom
Rob K:
Carryfast:
Some people will never understand the difference between the relatively small investment needed (not forgetting that the reserve capital requirement doesn’t mean actually spending that money) to set up as an owner driver as opposed to starting up a haulage company,which in a better more road transport industry environment would be worth every penny for the difference it makes,between the type of job and work opportunities available to subbies,which will never be available in the case of employed drivers.Which is the relevant comparison not the one of wether an owner driver operation makes so called ‘business’ sense or not.Because the aims and expected levels of income/reward of the two types of endeavor (running a business of whatever type) (as opposed to owning and driving a tractor unit to pull trailers on a sub contract basis) are totally different.They’re not totally different at all! The aims of both should be exactly the same. Regardless of whether you choose to be a 1-man band OD or a fully fledged haulage co. you still have the exact same basic set up costs for the business and per truck. If you choose to run more than 1 truck then your costs increase x how many trucks you have, with the exception of insurance (and possibly something else I’ve overlooked).
The set up costs,overheads and liabilities,required to run a decent enough unit and somewhere to park it,that’s driven by it’s owner/operator,on the basis of a good wage with enough left over to cover a reasonable return on the relatively little capital employed,being enough,won’t be anything like as much as would be required for that fully fledged haulage co/small fleet operation.
The only real issue against any decision to start up such a small scale operation,with no intention of growing the operation beyond the owner driver operation level,is just those issues of fuel costs and over capacity within the long distance sector of the uk road transport industry.Which make such a decision untenable just on the basis that even that requirement,of a decent wage and reasonable return on the relatively small amount of capital invested,can’t be taken for granted at such levels of fuel costs and over capacity,therefore shortage in the amounts of potential work available to choose from.
Therefore as I’ve said I agree with you and think that CM has lost the plot.But just not for exactly the same reasons.
Speaking of mistakes, the biggest one is becoming a sub contractor, if you don’t have direct work for at least 50% of your business then you’re just a jumped up company driver really, you may well earn more money, but only because someone else lets you, it only takes a change of management and you could find yourself out on your ear
If I was asked to give advice I would say that the best I could do would be, do not think that being an O/D will get you in a better financial position, to really become successful you should have your personal finances in order before you even think about becoming an O/D
Good Advice but if your personal finanaces were good why on earth would you venture as an O/D?
Robs argument is so valid and I agree but …so is Harrys too…horses for courses.
Depends how astute a business person you are i guess and when you know when its time to bail if need be!
Family member is an O/D come 7 years now, he has made more than being employed but has the headaches to go with with it and has very little time off so if you factor that in theres very little in it.
He uses drivers at busy periods and they earn decent dough but like all drivers they dont give a toss for the damage they cause.
If they had to pay they would think twice.
Carryfast:
Rob K:
They’re not totally different at all! The aims of both should be exactly the same. Regardless of whether you choose to be a 1-man band OD or a fully fledged haulage co. you still have the exact same basic set up costs for the business and per truck. If you choose to run more than 1 truck then your costs increase x how many trucks you have, with the exception of insurance (and possibly something else I’ve overlooked).
The set up costs,overheads and liabilities,required to run a decent enough unit and somewhere to park it,that’s driven by it’s owner/operator,on the basis of a good wage with enough left over to cover a reasonable return on the relatively little capital employed,being enough,won’t be anything like as much as would be required for that fully fledged haulage co/small fleet operation.
I’m with Rob on this one. What is it that suddenly gets more expensive if you call yourself a “small fleet” instead of an “owner driver”? The kit costs the same to buy, the insurance for 2 or 3 wagons is probably less on a per wagon basis than for one, parking costs the same, tyres costs the same, the work pays the same rates, etc., etc.
All I can think you’re getting at is that if you set up on Day1 as a “haulage co/small fleet” then you might want an office and someone to work in it but but in the real world it doesn’t work like that. Most small hauliers I know (up to about half a dozen vehicles or thereabouts) are run by the gaffer from his mobile phone in the cab of one of the trucks.
Paul
Why not tell people what YOU do Robert? Instead of ridiculing everyone else.
Y
repton:
Carryfast:
Rob K:
They’re not totally different at all! The aims of both should be exactly the same. Regardless of whether you choose to be a 1-man band OD or a fully fledged haulage co. you still have the exact same basic set up costs for the business and per truck. If you choose to run more than 1 truck then your costs increase x how many trucks you have, with the exception of insurance (and possibly something else I’ve overlooked).
The set up costs,overheads and liabilities,required to run a decent enough unit and somewhere to park it,that’s driven by it’s owner/operator,on the basis of a good wage with enough left over to cover a reasonable return on the relatively little capital employed,being enough,won’t be anything like as much as would be required for that fully fledged haulage co/small fleet operation.
I’m with Rob on this one. What is it that suddenly gets more expensive if you call yourself a “small fleet” instead of an “owner driver”? The kit costs the same to buy, the insurance for 2 or 3 wagons is probably less on a per wagon basis than for one, parking costs the same, tyres costs the same, the work pays the same rates, etc., etc.
All I can think you’re getting at is that if you set up on Day1 as a “haulage co/small fleet” then you might want an office and someone to work in it but but in the real world it doesn’t work like that. Most small hauliers I know (up to about half a dozen vehicles or thereabouts) are run by the gaffer from his mobile phone in the cab of one of the trucks.
Paul
What gets more expensive is the ‘actual’ all in cost nothing to do with the cost per truck with some discount knocked off the insurance bill or whatever because there’s a lot of em. 
Then you need a decent yard because you’re not just looking to base a unit used for traction somewhere you’re probably looking to base more than one and more than one trailer too.Unlike the situation that I had lined up locally in which the deal was/would have been yes you can park/base the thing here and a trailer if needed and just pay what you can afford to because the way the owner saw it just getting paid anything at all for the unused space was a bonus.
Then you’ve got to pay for the drivers and it’s going to be difficult to run a small fleet when the CPC holder/owner/operator/driver is busy away driving one of the fleet assuming that we’re talking about a long distance operation.
Then last but not least,in an environment that’s already saturated by overcapacity,where’s the sense in having to keep a small fleet in work to cover it’s fixed overheads like the payments on that big yard,maintenance,finance and depreciation etc etc when it’s better to have enough,or even too much,work for just one wagon to cope with.Let alone when times are difficult and there’s not even enough reasonably paying work to keep even the one truck busy enough let alone more.I think there’s been more small operations sunk by expanding and increasing capacity and then needing to keep that extra capacity in non existent decent paying work than small owner driver single unit traction operations which just stayed that size in which case it’s more likely to be a case of more than enough work to choose from at best while being small enough to survive at worst.
Having said that,as I’ve said,even the idea of keeping it small seems too risky to me in the current and foreseeable environment in which government policy is against the industry.Which is why I agree with RobK and think that CM has lost the plot in encouraging anyone to get involved in that situation without knowing exactly what that situation is in reality.
The owner driver debate continues !
the debate covers all sectors of the transport industry in this country, it’s all about supply and demand.
Rob K:
Harry Monk:
Rob K:
Pretty much every thread on this forum where a newbie asks about starting up I will reply with the usual (accurate) “off your rocker” type comments and then all the ODs come crawling out of the woodwork to tell me I’m wrong and advise the OP to go for it. You evidently have a very short memory. And I’m not getting into an argument about it. There is nothing more to say.There is just one more thing to say.
All of these owner-drivers probably know far more about being an owner-driver than you do, no?
Not necessarily, no. Frankly I don’t think anyone that is still an OD today should have their opinion taken too seriously as they’re stuck in their old ways and not moved with the times. The intelligent ODs got out of it in the mid noughties because they saw the train crash coming. If anyone’s opinions should be listened to it’s theirs, and I challenge you to find one of them say in complete honesty that being an OD now is a good idea. They have all given their thoughts about it in previous threads on here and have largely agreed with my points.
Anyway I’m bored of this now. It’s the same arguments every time and there are thousands of other threads you can read if you are interested. I’m sick of repeating myself and it going in one ear and straight out the other with you ODs.
The intelligent OD`s got out of what though?.
Does robk know about EVERY OD in the country?, no he does not.
Well I have missed him. I love the way he just turns up and joins in. Welcome back Mr K.
he seems to show far to much interest in the o/d debate, has mr k been an o/d in the past?
bigvern1:
Why not tell people what YOU do Robert? Instead of ridiculing everyone else.
I know but if I told you I would have to kill you and I wouldnt want poor Rikis Christmas ruined by a whinging little knowall ■■■■■ HTH.
mossdog:
Does robk know about EVERY OD in the country?, no he does not.
Yes, he does, in fact I’m going to phone my accountant tomorrow and tell him I won’t be needing him any more because there’s some bloke on the internet who knows far more about it than he does.
I seem to recall that Rob was one of the most opinionated people on the forum about satnavs, how they were for monkeys and idiots and no professional driver would ever use one… until he actually tried one, when they became the best thing since sliced bread…
I seem to recall that Renault Premiums were the worst truck on the road and that nobody with any self-respect would drive one, until he drove one, and then all of a sudden they were the best truck in the known universe…
So I guess I’m looking forward to seeing a V8 Scania with “Robtrans” coming the other way. 
Harry Monk:
Rob’s exactly the same in the euro forum, enters the forum simply to let people know he wouldn’t drive in Europe. In one of his more famous posts he told us…Rob K:
I’m so glad I never went through with doing euro work all those years ago and stuck to the mainland here.
As I say, he really should start visiting the ex-pat forum to let everybody know that he wouldn’t live in Canada.
Those with a long memory will recall the famous urban myth about "Off to Italy " followed by " well you wont believe this " from Rob K , Coffeeholic spotted it ! FAF!
bigvern1:
Well I have missed him. I love the way he just turns up and joins in. Welcome back Mr K.
Walter Mitty as he is known by one of the much loved Mods
Class!!!