I won’t copy and paste your whole thread Carryfast but the fact remains there is no money in long distance general haulage as there’s two many people chasing the same work. Yes the EE invasion is part of the problem but the fact is anyone can go and buy a tractor unit to do traction only and they do. Look at the likes of stobart the lorrys make sod all it’s the other services that make money.
As in any business the way to make money is work clever or specialize. Harry Monk has identified the exhibition side of things as a possible money spinner and may well be.
It’s like opening a pub in a street with 10 pubs you are going to struggle to make a good return.
Open a kebab shop in that road and there’s no others now you could make a killing.
fly sheet:
I feel your financing new kit is a bit out of kilter too, where would you be now repton with payments to make?
Yes, that’s the thing, if you operate an older, paid for truck then it’s a given that you will have higher maintenance costs, but at least you can bale out at any time. The blokes who come seriously unstuck are the ones who buy brand-new £80,000 top-of-the-range Scanias on binding finance contracts with no escape clause.
kr79:
I won’t copy and paste your whole thread Carryfast but the fact remains there is no money in long distance general haulage as there’s two many people chasing the same work. Yes the EE invasion is part of the problem but the fact is anyone can go and buy a tractor unit to do traction only and they do. Look at the likes of stobart the lorrys make sod all it’s the other services that make money.
As in any business the way to make money is work clever or specialize. Harry Monk has identified the exhibition side of things as a possible money spinner and may well be.
It’s like opening a pub in a street with 10 pubs you are going to struggle to make a good return.
Open a kebab shop in that road and there’s no others now you could make a killing.
Kenny?/Keith? (sry, forgot your name 
)are you still planning to be an OD? What’s your status these days? I know you were on about it 1-2 years ago.
Really, we need something to compare this to Rob. I’m not entirely sure what work you are doing at the moment, like you I’m a bit too busy to check every post, but if you want to describe it briefly, and say what the advantages are, I’m more than prepared to listen and point out to you what I feel the shortcomings are.
Rob K:
I don’t agree with you that financing the kit would be the answer to your prayers and suddenly turn you into some money making monster.
I didn’t say it would have done that but in my opinion (and it is only that) I would have been better off spending a bit more on the kit in the first place. I’m not suggesting I should have gone out and got a brand new unit and trailer, but the facts are plain and simple that the amount of money I spent on repairs and maintenace on my trailer in the first year was about the same as the repayments I would have had to pay had I put the money I spent on it down as a deposit on a new trailer paid for over 5 years and with a new trailer I wouldn’t have lost as much in the way of earnings (for example one breakdown when a brake caliper failed spectacularly cost me £1200 in lost work alone).
Of course you can never be certain of these things though and to a certain extent with stuff like this you’re relying on luck as much as anything as my older trailer could have turned out to be completely reliable and a new one can still have problems.
Rob K:
In fact I would go so far to say that it would make negligible difference to your bottom line other than enable you to buy yourself a few extra Mars bars at the end of the year.
It might not have made a massive difference to the bottom line in the short term but if I had managed to find the right work then once the finance was paid off I would have had a 5 year old trailer worth about £15k as a trade in whereas the one I have just sold would at that point have been 13 years old and worth £5 or 6k on a good day as a trade in so at that point I would clearly be quids in. Again of course it might just be I was unlucky in the first year and my trailer might have cost half as much each year after that to maintain which would change the figures. You can never be certain either way.
Rob K:
You state that the reason you weren’t making big money was because you were a very young business, but 2.5 years of trading is not my definition of “very young” I’m afraid
We’ll have to agree to differ there then. I know one local lad in the same game as I was who has been going the best part of a decade and just this year managed to land himself a big contract at harvest time which has made a massive difference to his business. A lot of the better work is of the type where once you’re in on it you have the work for life but getting on to it can take time.
Rob K:
If your electronics venture hadn’t taken off and taking into account your comments about winter in your later reply to me, what would you be doing right now?
I would be doing the work I don’t like that involved me being out all week whilst also looking for better (local) work.
Rob K:
Also you keep stating that “it wasn’t for me” - can you elaborate on what exactly “wasn’t for you” and why that’s only only come to light now?
The being away all week, as I have already said was the main big issue. I had (wrongly) assumed at the start I would be able to get enough local work through the winter that I would only have to be away one or two nights a week but in the end it turned out more like three or four.
Paul
fly sheet:
Reading between the lines here I am thinking reptons need to be home has been the reason for his packing in.
That is the main reason, both because of my other business and the fact that we have a lot of animals of various kinds here and it simply isn’t on for me to be away all week and leave LT to look after them all when she has her own work to do as well.
[quote="fly sheet"I feel your financing new kit is a bit out of kilter too, where would you be now repton with payments to make?[/quote]
I wouldn’t have gone new, but if I was starting again from the same point I might have spent £15k instead of £7k on the unit and maybe £20k instead of £14k on the trailer and I feel that given average luck in terms of reliability I would have been in a better position now than I am. As I have said in other posts though it is to a certain extent a gamble whatever way you go.
Paul
repton:
I didn’t say it would have done that but in my opinion (and it is only that) I would have been better off spending a bit more on the kit in the first place. I’m not suggesting I should have gone out and got a brand new unit and trailer, but the facts are plain and simple that the amount of money I spent on repairs and maintenace on my trailer in the first year was about the same as the repayments I would have had to pay had I put the money I spent on it down as a deposit on a new trailer paid for over 5 years and with a new trailer I wouldn’t have lost as much in the way of earnings (for example one breakdown when a brake caliper failed spectacularly cost me £1200 in lost work alone).Of course you can never be certain of these things though and to a certain extent with stuff like this you’re relying on luck as much as anything as my older trailer could have turned out to be completely reliable and a new one can still have problems.
Well indeed, I agree, but (understandably) your views are somewhat jaded because you ended up being on the receiving end of that bill so naturally you are now of the opinion that if you’d bought something newer you wouldn’t have had that issue. And that may well have been the case, but stuff can go wrong at any age. It’s like people who won’t buy cars over a certain age or mileage because “they’ll be trouble”, so they buy at 3-4 years old when the warranty has just run out under the impression that it’s old enough to have lost the bulk of its depreciation and young enough to still be perfectly reliable, however the internet is awash with horror stories from owners in such positions that are facing umpteen thousand pound bills for injectors, DPFs, DMFs, EGRs, alternators, water pumps etc etc at only 40,000 miles. There is absolutely nothing to argue that the same kind of expense could easily be needed on 3-4 year old tractor unit and trailer. Remember Ian Young (bullet Ian) with his nearly new DAF XFs that caused him nothing but trouble… Edit: and then there’s Sean/Shaun? with his new FH12.
The other thing to consider is that you wouldn’t have had an escape route if you’d bought it all on finance. Depending on how much of it you’d signed up for there’s a high chance that you wouldn’t be able to wrap it all up and draw a line under it as you just have done. You would’ve needed to carry on scratting around for some work this winter that would at least cover your outgoings - something that didn’t want to do. You might’ve been kicking yourself at the time for buying older kit that let you down a few times, but I bet you’re glad you did now as you were able to walk away from it all without any comeback.
As you’ve said yourself many times, a lot of it simply comes down to luck, but imho that’s a very risky business strategy when you’re working with such tight margins.
It might not have made a massive difference to the bottom line in the short term but if I had managed to find the right work then once the finance was paid off I would have had a 5 year old trailer worth about £15k as a trade in whereas the one I have just sold would at that point have been 13 years old and worth £5 or 6k on a good day as a trade in so at that point I would clearly be quids in. Again of course it might just be I was unlucky in the first year and my trailer might have cost half as much each year after that to maintain which would change the figures. You can never be certain either way.
But wait, how would you be “quids in”? You seem to be forgetting a little detail such as the 5yro trailer being significantly more to purchase than the 13yro one. Using very rough back-of-a-beermat maths, your new trailer would theoretically* cost you more overall as firstly the depreciation curve will be much steeper the younger it is and secondly you would also have the extra expense of the interest on the finance.
*Note that I carefully used the word “theoretically” as this does not of course take into account any repairs needed on your 13yro trailer which may (or may not) work out more expensive overall depending on what breaks.
We’ll have to agree to differ there then. I know one local lad in the same game as I was who has been going the best part of a decade and just this year managed to land himself a big contract at harvest time which has made a massive difference to his business. A lot of the better work is of the type where once you’re in on it you have the work for life but getting on to it can take time.
And how often does that happen? Good for him, but it’s the exception rather than the norm. I’d strongly disagree with you on your last sentence about “being in it for life”. Many many people have fallen foul of that including many large well known hauliers who thought they had it all sown up, only for the bean counters to come in and appoint someone else who’ll do it cheaper.
The being away all week, as I have already said was the main big issue. I had (wrongly) assumed at the start I would be able to get enough local work through the winter that I would only have to be away one or two nights a week but in the end it turned out more like three or four.
Fair enough, but surely you would’ve already considered the possibility of the job requirements changing prior to you deciding to make a go of it? You don’t go to all the hassle and expense of setting up in business and then decide to pull the plug on it all because one customer says “jump!” when you don’t want to. I am of course over-simplifying things here as you’ve already stated other factors were involved, but if I were to bet money I’d say there’s more to you deciding to jack it all in than a fledging electronics business, “needing to help LT more” and not being able to find any decent paying winter work with no overnights. I reckon if the truth were known you were sick of the grind, hassle and hours for “a drivers wage plus a very small amount on top”. 
Rob K:
The other thing to consider is that you wouldn’t have had an escape route if you’d bought it all on finance. Depending on how much of it you’d signed up for there’s a high chance that you wouldn’t be able to wrap it all up and draw a line under it as you just have done. You would’ve needed to carry on scratting around for some work this winter that would at least cover your outgoings - something that didn’t want to do. You might’ve been kicking yourself at the time for buying older kit that let you down a few times, but I bet you’re glad you did now as you were able to walk away from it all without any comeback.
As you’ve said yourself many times, a lot of it simply comes down to luck, but imho that’s a very risky business strategy when you’re working with such tight margins.It might not have made a massive difference to the bottom line in the short term but if I had managed to find the right work then once the finance was paid off I would have had a 5 year old trailer worth about £15k as a trade in whereas the one I have just sold would at that point have been 13 years old and worth £5 or 6k on a good day as a trade in so at that point I would clearly be quids in. Again of course it might just be I was unlucky in the first year and my trailer might have cost half as much each year after that to maintain which would change the figures. You can never be certain either way.
But wait, how would you be “quids in”? You seem to be forgetting a little detail such as the 5yro trailer being significantly more to purchase than the 13yro one. Using very rough back-of-a-beermat maths, your new trailer would theoretically* cost you more overall as firstly the depreciation curve will be much steeper the younger it is and secondly you would also have the extra expense of the interest on the finance.
*Note that I carefully used the word “theoretically” as this does not of course take into account any repairs needed on your 13yro trailer which may (or may not) work out more expensive overall depending on what breaks.
We’ll have to agree to differ there then. I know one local lad in the same game as I was who has been going the best part of a decade and just this year managed to land himself a big contract at harvest time which has made a massive difference to his business. A lot of the better work is of the type where once you’re in on it you have the work for life but getting on to it can take time.
And how often does that happen? Good for him, but it’s the exception rather than the norm. I’d strongly disagree with you on your last sentence about “being in it for life”. Many many people have fallen foul of that including many large well known hauliers who thought they had it all sown up, only for the bean counters to come in and appoint someone else who’ll do it cheaper.
The being away all week, as I have already said was the main big issue. I had (wrongly) assumed at the start I would be able to get enough local work through the winter that I would only have to be away one or two nights a week but in the end it turned out more like three or four.
Fair enough, but surely you would’ve already considered the possibility of the job requirements changing prior to you deciding to make a go of it? You don’t go to all the hassle and expense of setting up in business and then decide to pull the plug on it all because one customer says “jump!” when you don’t want to. I am of course over-simplifying things here as you’ve already stated other factors were involved, but if I were to bet money I’d say there’s more to you deciding to jack it all in than a fledging electronics business, “needing to help LT more” and not being able to find any decent paying winter work with no overnights. I reckon if the truth were known you were sick of the grind, hassle and hours for “a drivers wage plus a very small amount on top”.
Not really correct, a settlement figure on a finance agreement is avaliable, has to be otherwise it would be a hell of a mess in certain circumstances.
puntabrava:
Not really correct, a settlement figure on a finance agreement is avaliable, has to be otherwise it would be a hell of a mess in certain circumstances.
Didn’t really explain myself properly there. You are of course correct that one can obtain a settlement figure easily enough, however the point I was trying to make was that Repton may not have been in a financial position where he could settle the outstanding balance there and then so would’ve had to continue being an OD or source the funds from elsewhere. As 100% owner of the tackle you don’t have that complication.
Rob K:
puntabrava:
Not really correct, a settlement figure on a finance agreement is avaliable, has to be otherwise it would be a hell of a mess in certain circumstances.Didn’t really explain myself properly there. You are of course correct that one can obtain a settlement figure easily enough, however the point I was trying to make was that Repton may not have been in a financial position where he could settle the outstanding balance there and then so would’ve had to continue being an OD or source the funds from elsewhere. As 100% owner of the tackle you don’t have that complication.
Lots of kit is sold in auctions with no removal allowed until the finance co gives approval, if you have kit with 3 years finance left it is only a matter of get agreement to dispose and you can sell how you want.
Rob K:
But wait, how would you be “quids in”? You seem to be forgetting a little detail such as the 5yro trailer being significantly more to purchase than the 13yro one. Using very rough back-of-a-beermat maths, your new trailer would theoretically* cost you more overall as firstly the depreciation curve will be much steeper the younger it is and secondly you would also have the extra expense of the interest on the finance.
The example was roughly based on buying a new trailer over 5 years with finance instead of buying an 8 year old one outright. Clearly there’s a difference in price but the repayments on the finance on the difference would have been less than I was spending on repairs/maintenance on the 8 year old one. So if the 8 year old one had continued to cost the same on average in repairs for the 5 year period then the cost of the finance repayments would have been covered by the savings in repair costs. Plus there are other advantages of a new/newer trailer in that it looks better to the customer, if it’s more reliable you’re providing a better service (and losing less money in downtime) and you’re less likely to attract the attention of VOSA.
Of course as I have said before luck plays a large part and as you correctly say newer doesn’t necessarily mean more reliable so you can never be certain either way.
Paul
Rob K:
Didn’t really explain myself properly there. You are of course correct that one can obtain a settlement figure easily enough, however the point I was trying to make was that Repton may not have been in a financial position where he could settle the outstanding balance there and then so would’ve had to continue being an OD or source the funds from elsewhere. As 100% owner of the tackle you don’t have that complication.
Obviously every situation is different but lets say for example if, instead of spending £14k on a trailer I had spent £30k on a new one and (for example) financed the £16k over 5 years. The total finance cost would have been something like £20k and so at the point I sold up, roughly halfway through that finance period, I would have been selling a 2.5 year old trailer and had £10k left on the finance to settle. Even going to a dealer just looking for a cash sale a tidy 2.5yo trailer would be worth at least £18k and so I would have ended up with at least the same as the £8k I actually got for the trailer after the finance was settled. Assuming the new trailer had been reliable for those 2.5 years the £4k/year I would have spent on finance repayments is about the same as I actually spent on repairs over that period but I would have been a bit better off due to the lower downtime and possibly also a bit better off due to a new trailer being a bit lighter than my older one (even a saving as small as 200kg would have worked out to about £2k in extra earnings over that period).
But like I’ve already said, it could be that over the full 5 years the older trailer might have averaged a lot less in repairs, and I could have been unlucky and got a new one that was problematic. You never can be certain.
Paul
Rob K:
kr79:
I won’t copy and paste your whole thread Carryfast but the fact remains there is no money in long distance general haulage as there’s two many people chasing the same work. Yes the EE invasion is part of the problem but the fact is anyone can go and buy a tractor unit to do traction only and they do. Look at the likes of stobart the lorrys make sod all it’s the other services that make money.
As in any business the way to make money is work clever or specialize. Harry Monk has identified the exhibition side of things as a possible money spinner and may well be.
It’s like opening a pub in a street with 10 pubs you are going to struggle to make a good return.
Open a kebab shop in that road and there’s no others now you could make a killing.Kenny?/Keith? (sry, forgot your name
I gave it a brief go and started by getting a truck on short term hire. Had something a bit niche lined up but the work volume wasn’t what the guy predicted so I was doing a couple of loads a week for him and the rest was on ferry trailers.
I just couldn’t make that stack up unless I was running an old paid for truck which in London with the lez wasn’t a option really.
I was only going to have a wage so no point. I’m with you in the fact I’d want a good bit more than I drivers wage due to the fact you have all the admin hassle plus maybe spending weekends servicing your truck. Then add on paid holidays and benefits of been an employee.
I maintain there is a good living as an owner driver/small hauler but not on boxes ferry trailers etc you have to offer a neiche service.
As for me I headed off to Canada to give this long haul work a whirl.
dearie me rob, whers your christmas cheer 
I was looking forward to xmas until I read your usual bemoaning the rights and wrongs of operating a transport business. fair play to anybody who gives it a go whether it succeeds or has a change of direction as in reptons case.
Rob’s exactly the same in the euro forum, enters the forum simply to let people know he wouldn’t drive in Europe. In one of his more famous posts he told us…
Rob K:
I’m so glad I never went through with doing euro work all those years ago and stuck to the mainland here.
As I say, he really should start visiting the ex-pat forum to let everybody know that he wouldn’t live in Canada.
Harry Monk:
Rob’s exactly the same in the euro forum, enters the forum simply to let people know he wouldn’t drive in Europe. In one of his more famous posts he told us…Rob K:
I’m so glad I never went through with doing euro work all those years ago and stuck to the mainland here.
As I say, he really should start visiting the ex-pat forum to let everybody know that he wouldn’t live in Canada.
Your comments are completely irrelevant to this thread, I have no idea what your point is. You just took my comment completely out of context and I have no idea why you keep banging on about Canada in a thread about UK ODs. If you have questions about Canada or wanting to move there then may I suggest you post them in the relevant forum.
fly sheet:
As to the origional poster, the comercial motor is a joke.As moose says seeing your name in it is the kiss of death.
It seems like a good advert for the RSA 
Rob K:
Your comments are completely irrelevant to this thread, I have no idea what your point is. You just took my comment completely out of context and I have no idea why you keep banging on about Canada in a thread about UK ODs.
My point is that if you personally wouldn’t be interested in operating a truck, then why do you waste your time in the part of the forum for those who do?
One of your characteristics is that you ignore any comment not consistent with your mindset. Repton has explained many times that his experience as an owner-driver was financially profitable, that he enjoyed the experience but that his life has now changed, you have had it explained to you by several other owner-drivers that they are very content with what they are doing, but still you try to nit-pick over one tiny part of one post.
As I’ve said, I’ve got more respect for Paul for doing it than I have for you for sneering at him for doing it and I would imagine the vast majority of readers would say the same.
Well as an O/D for over 30 years now, the question was ‘Is now the time’ and the answer is no it is not the time and is unlikely to be for a few years yet.Far better
to have a reasonable paying job and if it is possible try to move upwards within that organisation.Rob K usually find you interesting but on occasions you come
over as a manic depressive,chill out pal.Ah! Just read the article and what Laurie Dealer failed to add was…‘And come and buy a rig from one of my cronies’…doing
his bit for CM advertisers.LOL!
Harry Monk:
Rob K:
Your comments are completely irrelevant to this thread, I have no idea what your point is. You just took my comment completely out of context and I have no idea why you keep banging on about Canada in a thread about UK ODs.My point is that if you personally wouldn’t be interested in operating a truck, then why do you waste your time in the part of the forum for those who do?
And how do you know this? You see, you, like others, jump to conclusions based on the limited information available to you and it ends up making you look foolish when the truth eventually outs. There are a handful of trusted members on this site that know why I am interested in the topic and also know how I am “qualified” (for the want of a more suitable word) to make comments on the topic.
One of your characteristics is that you ignore any comment not consistent with your mindset. Repton has explained many times that his experience as an owner-driver was financially profitable, that he enjoyed the experience but that his life has now changed, you have had it explained to you by several other owner-drivers that they are very content with what they are doing, but still you try to nit-pick over one tiny part of one post.
The best solution for you then is put me on ignore then you won’t have to read such comments will you! I will continue to post what I think regardless of whether you or anyone else disagrees with it. I’m sure there are plenty of “content” ODs out there, bumbling along paying themselves a mediocre wage each week and that’s fine, but when those people give advice to newbies that they should sell their granny’s to set up as an OD because it’s such a good earner then don’t expect me to sit back and not say anything.