Rentadent:
. . . whereas in the real world companies have to actually balance the books and not just ■■■■■ out public money . . .
2013/14 results show Operating Profit before Transformation costs as £671m (£430m after tc’s).
2014/15 results show a 6% increase to £740m from similar turnover.
Winseer:
I enquired at my local NB which also happens to be the nearest yard to where I live.
I live in the so-called “Prosperous south east”.I don’t consider £8.75ph (£420pw for 48 hours including paid breaks) to be much cop for these parts.
Ok, so it was 18 months ago - The rates you two are stating seem more like “complete garbage” in that they are not available to new recruits clearly.
I implied that it was the tankers on the decent contract, and ADR holders seemed to be getting short shrift.
Now, if that is a generalization - then I reckon the rest of the country is going to be paying even less rather than a lot more as you two describe.
You’ll be telling me that all the £50k work is ‘up north’ next!
By rights, there should be some of the £50k drivers mentioned at my local depot - but when I talk to the drivers there, they tell me the only ones getting over £35k let alone £50 are the fuel tanker drivers! The basic for nights for the job I was enquiring about was £480 for monday-friday 40 hours paid (45 hours at work?)
The job? - Running double deckers to the new place at Crick. No overtime built into the job.I had a similiar experience with my enquiry for Stobarts out of Sittingbourne during the same period (early 2014).
The newspaper ad stated £38k… The only ones getting anywhere near this rate were the 11 from 14 eurotrampers.
Midweek nights was £8.10ph. I withdrew my application when they said I needed to attend an assessment at Aveley.The Modus Operandi of too many yards now is to take on the new recruits as young 'uns and/or immigrants - since what “average driver aged over 50” is going to get out of bed for the rates they are trying to palm off on the working population hmm?
XPO will keep people on their current contract if it pays less than their own staff get. They’ll seek to end the old contract at the earliest opportunity - if it pays significantly more than the new company one for the same kind of work.
TDG workers found this out to their cost when taken over by NB, as did C&H drivers when taken over by Downton. The deal is “take the new contract, or a small exit package”. Many have since jumped ship of course. The senior drivers who are more likely to get a generous exit package - are more likely to walk if the “new deal” isn’t work getting out of bed for eh?
Generalization or not - No new recruit anywhere is getting top dollar these days.
Please tell me how you know that Downtons have changed the C&H drivers contract because I’m ex C&H still working there and my contract is still the same and I’ve had to move depots due to the Mill closing down.
Many drivers have already left, and what’s left are consolidating into places like Chatham.
NO more picking up paper from the mill… It’s pulled directly out of the ports for delivery now.
I bumped into the ex-mill shunter driving a tug at Tescos the other week and all… Chatham ex-C&H drivers (now in Downtons strip of course) seem to be clambering for the walking floor and broxbourne work. There’s plenty of the latter at least, as I’ve been doing odd days on it myself these past few weeks.
Winseer:
Many drivers have already left, and what’s left are consolidating into places like Chatham.NO more picking up paper from the mill… It’s pulled directly out of the ports for delivery now.
I bumped into the ex-mill shunter driving a tug at Tescos the other week and all… Chatham ex-C&H drivers (now in Downtons strip of course) seem to be clambering for the walking floor and broxbourne work. There’s plenty of the latter at least, as I’ve been doing odd days on it myself these past few weeks.
But that still don’t explain where they have changed our contracts like you stated.
Well, let’s ask you: "Is your job now crap compared to the T&Cs & package you used to get on C&H?
If it’s changed at all - your contract has been changed - hasn’t it? It shouldn’t be changing for any drivers that were downtons to start with of course…
If Morale were climbing right now - I’d be hearing of the full timers bragging about how “dead man’s shoes” the job has become of late - eh?
If you think about it, there would almost HAVE to be “some changes to the negative” - since Charles Gee owning C&H previously couldn’t uphold it’s business model as it stands, despite owning a bunch of specialist trailers. Where else does the axe fall other than with the workforce?
Winseer:
Well, let’s ask you: "Is your job now crap compared to the T&Cs & package you used to get on C&H?If it’s changed at all - your contract has been changed - hasn’t it? It shouldn’t be changing for any drivers that were downtons to start with of course…
If Morale were climbing right now - I’d be hearing of the full timers bragging about how “dead man’s shoes” the job has become of late - eh?
If you think about it, there would almost HAVE to be “some changes to the negative” - since Charles Gee owning C&H previously couldn’t uphold it’s business model as it stands, despite owning a bunch of specialist trailers. Where else does the axe fall other than with the workforce?
My t&cs haven’t changed regardless wether the job is crap now. You stated that they had changed our contracts in you original post I asked you to show me where I’m still waiting.
Our contracts have not changed regardless of how the job has gone so I suggest you get your facts right before posting.
Winseer:
If a new driver got exactly the same as one that had been there over a decade - that old hand would be looking for another job at the slightest provocation - surely?
In 20-odd years of driving, including general haulage, tramping, trunking, family firms to international logistics companies, and 8 years or so on agency, I’ve never worked for a company that paid drivers based on their time served. If I started at a new company I would expect to get paid the same as every other driver there, likewise I would expect a new starter to get the same rate as me if I was the old hand, why should or would the pay differ? Only if they were on a specialist contract would I accept a different pay structure, otherwise we all do the same job. I’ve worked with many different drivers over the years and have an open mind, not all new starters are useless and deserve less pay, and not all old hands are experts deserving more!
The contract I’m on pays £3k p.a. less for the first 6 months. After that there’s only an increase in holiday for longer-servers who don’t take any time off sick.
There’s a depot local to me who pay £30k basic to their 4 on 4 off nights lads. £38k if able to do 5 on 3 off by getting very easily available overtime. A strong union presence, decent holiday, double time on bank holidays, decent but basic motors, and no cowboy tactics. However, it’s a contract that’s quite prestigious and has lots of clout, who dictate a lot of the rules, including pay.
Rentadent:
Winseer:
If a new driver got exactly the same as one that had been there over a decade - that old hand would be looking for another job at the slightest provocation - surely?In 20-odd years of driving, including general haulage, tramping, trunking, family firms to international logistics companies, and 8 years or so on agency, I’ve never worked for a company that paid drivers based on their time served. If I started at a new company I would expect to get paid the same as every other driver there, likewise I would expect a new starter to get the same rate as me if I was the old hand, why should or would the pay differ? Only if they were on a specialist contract would I accept a different pay structure, otherwise we all do the same job. I’ve worked with many different drivers over the years and have an open mind, not all new starters are useless and deserve less pay, and not all old hands are experts deserving more!
Ahh… something I’ve always insisted upon myself. The trouble is, it has more than one prong to it:
(1) You can earn the same in terms of “hourly rate” as all the other drivers, but the senior drivers get to pick into the jobs that are alligned best to the picking up of overtime whenever you might want it - rather whenever the firm decides to give you some.
(2) The only time “johnny come lately” got to start and go straight to the top in terms of picking a duty up - they’d already done yonks at another depot in the same firm, and transfered sideways into the current depot.
(3) When an agency got made up to full time, they’d invariably be put on “floater” duty, which amounts to pretty much the same kind of duties on a regular basis as the agency used to cover. This is not good if you really wanted permanent nights/days/lates or were fed up with driving artics, and wanted a class 2 job for a while of course… If you didn’t pick into a fixed job - you didn’t have a fixed job - you were permanently “a floater”. Same rate as agency, no access to meaningful overtime, and even compulsary 6 day weeks when you might have been rather hoping for a 4x12 hour week…
(4) The 4x12 hour week is of course the very acme of plum duty - assuming the start/finish times were what you wanted them to be to fit your personal life as well.
In conclusion - it is always going to be better to work at a LARGE depot as a retained driver - rather than a smaller concern where, fair enough, you might have a better relationship with the boss, but you won’t get anything above and beyond out of the company unless you vault the moon to earn it.
Virgin Mailing Distribution was a classic example of a firm that had a dozen different rates of pay for different people doing exactly the same job. The resentment from bods 2-11 was profound needless to say…
RM on the other hand, was exactly the same rates of pay for the same job for all (except raw recuits for the first 6 months) - but the seniority factor got you into the plummier jobs that might be available. Larger depots had a broader spectrum of jobs, so if you were going to be at the firm for years - you really wanted to be thinking “must work at a larger depot” to take advantage of your seniority to get the best jobs going.
In this regard, ND sounds rather like they run a similar system - you start of with a crappy job with no overtime availability, and crappy start/finish times, and are expected to work every saturday morning (for example)
Once you’ve been there a few years - you get to move sideways into a decent fixed “contract” job, and once there - you’ll never look back.
Staff turnover at a larger depot therefore - works in the new recruit’s favour no end!
I get that. 
Just to update everyone as the original poster regarding the XPO/Norbert Dentressangle takeover of the contract at our depot… They are changing the way the drivers work at our depot when they take over…
No more nights out / Night out money
No more paid motorway parking…
No more tramping
Seriously reduced hours
Which means 4x extra round trip travel to work costing me over £200 extra a month
Loss of £ 336 night out money a month
Loss of income
Plus other small payments that equally about a £ 7,500.00cut in gross wages a year…
Not a good prospect… As a lot of our drivers have to travel a good distance in to work it has made the job totally unfeasable for most…
Time to get another job…
