the maoster:
It’s actually not perfectly legal to stay in lane 2. I’m surprised that you don’t know this.
It’s more moral than killing a kid, and not going to jail for it “Totally Legally”…
Would you deliberately do something bad, because it was “Legal” to do that bad thing, but avoid doing something Righteous, because that was deemed ILLegal?
Here we see the difference between the Right and Left leaning mind, alas…
I’d argue that it’s perfectly moral to murder a kiddie fiddler, a drug pusher, a burglar who enters your home. I don’t however because they are not within the law. Your argument holds no water unless you permanently drive in lane two of a dual carriageway on the off chance that your mythical child is lying in lane one.
It really is as simple as that.
My two pennies worth on smart motorways is that it was always road widening on the cheap. If you have kids or vulnerable people in the car, it would be terrifying for all involved if you konked out in a live lane with no where to go, not everybody is a pro driver and roads have to be idiot proof as much as possible.
That’s the fundamental flaw with smart motorways, they require smart drivers with a degree of motorway driving proficiency and many aren’t up to it, this has been common knowledge for years so to design a motorway around the premise this isn’t the case is daft.
People always mention dual carriageways, but its widely accepted that in an ideal world the major ones would be upgraded to motorway standard. There is also much less armco, meaning you can usually hoof your car up the verge or into the gutter & get off the road.
The type of smart motorway where the hardshoulder is dynamic was always a disaster, far too much to expect most road users to get their head around that. The all lane running ones are much better (because they are more idiot proof) and I think large stretches of our motorways have been improved by them in terms of traffic flow.
Don’t build anymore - fine. But we can’t go back on what we have done & start reverting roads that are now long established as 4 lane carriageways back to 3. More congestion breeds accidents in itself. What’s done is done.
Smart motorways aren’t cheap, the cost of digital technology that goes in to them would make your eyes water, it’s nearly on par with widening them.
the maoster:
I’d argue that it’s perfectly moral to murder a kiddie fiddler, a drug pusher, a burglar who enters your home. I don’t however because they are not within the law. Your argument holds no water unless you permanently drive in lane two of a dual carriageway on the off chance that your mythical child is lying in lane one.I thought I’d been saying that this, was indeed my practice at this point?
I won’t use the newly opened hard shoulder.
If it has been that way for a while, then I still won’t use it IF there is a lane drop/off slip ahead.
If I’m in lane 1 that becomes lane 2 after a gantry sign makes it so, then I stay put. - Doesn’t the highway code say “Don’t change lanes, unless necesssary”?The most likely thing to be in lane one of a road with now “no hard shoulder” - is a broken down vehicle. I don’t believe people would just stop to make a phone call in a live lane, unless that phone call was to the Samaritans, perhaps “I can’t take it anymore!”…
I’ve seen people pull into emergency verges, make a phone call, only to have a vosa car pull in behind, and presuambly ask "When does the breakdown guy you’ve just called get here? - We’re going to tow you off the motorway, and charge you for it if you answer ‘More than 5 minutes’. "
knowing damned well that the guy likely hasn’t broken down at all, but strangely the police seem very reluctant to call any would-be arrestee a Liar to their faces…
It really is as simple as that.
I’d agree, but most cases against people like Carl Rittenhaus are brought in because somehow it is seen as wrong to retaliate, when presuambly the thinking is the law enables and emboldens criminals to do whatever the hell they like, as any civilian who fights back - is in the dock instead of them…
If the Police DO go on to be cancelled, even if in name only - then I can see bands of militia forming up in this country, which would look like a kind of “Neighborhood Watch Scheme” but with pitchforks and farmer’s 12-bores! 
If its okay, I’ll share a recent breakdown on a “smart” motorway - specifically the M25 anticlockwise, from J25 to J24. Its an all-lanes-running section of 4 lanes, but with about 6 feet to the left of lane 1 in concrete and then about 8 feet of grassy area (see pic). The van I was driving lit some dash warning lights, then shortly after went into “limp home” mode resulting in 30mph max speed. (Hopefully the pic illustrates). Even though there was a yellow “emergency bay” 450yds ahead, I wasn’t able to safely make this, with HGVs behind, so I pretty much immediately pulled over onto the available area, as much to the left as possible (ie onto the grass). I am grateful for the earlier suggestion in this thread for doing that, and not worrying about possibly getting stuck on the grass.
Within about 20 mins, Highways Agency had arrived and fended off the rear, I was able to drive at 30mph to the emergency bay (in limp mode). Whilst the on-the-grass initial position was definitely “dodgy”, I’d not describe it as especially unsafe, and it didn’t seem to affect traffic flow. I have no ideas if eg “60 mph” or “obstruction” boards were lit behind me though. I guess they were when HA came. But I was lucky - there’s many other smart motorway areas where there isn’t such a generous are to the left hand side. Also the weather was great, so no worries about leaving the vehicle and getting up the bank a bit.
I’m glad all’s well that ends well but this bit …
paul_c2:
resulting in 30mph max speed. (Hopefully the pic illustrates). Even though there was a yellow “emergency bay” 450yds ahead, I wasn’t able to safely make this, with HGVs behind, so I pretty much immediately pulled over ]
I don’t understand why you couldn’t carry on for a couple of miles at 30 mph with hazard lights on. A maximum speed differential of 26 mph is surely safe enough?
Be fair Stu, idiotic lorry drivers manage to run into the back of things with a less than 5mph speed differential. I can almost guarantee that limping down a motorway at 30mph WOULD result in being rear ended. Probably not by the truck immediately behind, but certainly by the one three feet off his rear who has nowhere to go once the sleepy one in front jinks out at the last second.
the maoster:
Be fair Stu, idiotic lorry drivers manage to run into the back of things with a less than 5mph speed differential. I can almost guarantee that limping down a motorway at 30mph WOULD result in being rear ended. Probably not by the truck immediately behind, but certainly by the one three feet off his rear who has nowhere to go once the sleepy one in front jinks out at the last second.
In 450yds?!
I know I extended it to the theoretical max distance between refuges. I think I would prefer to risk 450 yds at 30mph than 30 mins ? at the side of the road.
Although, looking at the photo again, that is well off the road [emoji106]
You said a couple of miles and then changed it to 400 odd yards. How many inches have you told your Missus it is? 
My point was more that the left hand edge has enough ‘stuff’ beyond the edge line to actually fit a car (or small van) in there, beyond the line. So its not desperately unsafe. Sure, there’s areas where this isn’t possible (just a few yards further back, where the barrier is, for example, in the pic).
So when we hear of incidents on smart motorways connected with a breakdown, its normally due to someone doing something daft, or not having the nous to get well left then get out and away from the side of the road.
paul_c2:
My point was more that the left hand edge has enough ‘stuff’ beyond the edge line to actually fit a car (or small van) in there, beyond the line. So its not desperately unsafe. Sure, there’s areas where this isn’t possible (just a few yards further back, where the barrier is, for example, in the pic).So when we hear of incidents on smart motorways connected with a breakdown, its normally due to someone doing something daft, or not having the nous to get well left then get out and away from the side of the road.
I was having a look at the smart M1 today as I went along, the majority I would say had Armco at the edge, so it’s refuge or live lane.
paul_c2:
If its okay, I’ll share a recent breakdown on a “smart” motorway - specifically the M25 anticlockwise, from J25 to J24. Its an all-lanes-running section of 4 lanes, but with about 6 feet to the left of lane 1 in concrete and then about 8 feet of grassy area (see pic). The van I was driving lit some dash warning lights, then shortly after went into “limp home” mode resulting in 30mph max speed. (Hopefully the pic illustrates). Even though there was a yellow “emergency bay” 450yds ahead, I wasn’t able to safely make this, with HGVs behind, so I pretty much immediately pulled over onto the available area, as much to the left as possible (ie onto the grass). I am grateful for the earlier suggestion in this thread for doing that, and not worrying about possibly getting stuck on the grass.Within about 20 mins, Highways Agency had arrived and fended off the rear, I was able to drive at 30mph to the emergency bay (in limp mode). Whilst the on-the-grass initial position was definitely “dodgy”, I’d not describe it as especially unsafe, and it didn’t seem to affect traffic flow. I have no ideas if eg “60 mph” or “obstruction” boards were lit behind me though. I guess they were when HA came. But I was lucky - there’s many other smart motorway areas where there isn’t such a generous are to the left hand side. Also the weather was great, so no worries about leaving the vehicle and getting up the bank a bit.
0
Spot on common sense that mate, used your loaf and got the vehicle safely off ‘the road to hell’ as the song goes.
How many times have spent ages in queues inching along to the pinch point where a bit of nous used (fine example above) as the vehicle came to a juddering halt getting it off the road could have made everyone’s life a bit easier, as well as safer for the disabled vehicle and its passengers.
