Twoninety88: but why were so many Americans against an NHS style heath service?
Because they are constantly told how bad and expensive the NHS and other national healthcare systems are, although maybe they should look at how is telling them its so bad, they’d probably find it’s the politicians and others who have a vested interest in the US private healthcare system.
This isn’t to say that NHS is perfect, probably far from it and it is no doubt easy to show how bad it is at times, but for many of us, it does work when we really need it.
Critics claimed that Jarman, who has only just released his findings, had an agenda to denigrate the NHS, which he has refuted. He accepts that the US does badly on life expectancy but says his data only looks at hospital deaths, which account for just half of the total mortality.
“There’s no GP system in America, so life expectancy, infant mortality, is terrible in places like Harlem. But in the US you do pay twice as much for healthcare in hospitals so that might explain something.”
The work has been attacked for not being peer reviewed.
There is an additional issue that could affect the UK-US comparisons. In America people with insurance are often discharged to die at home or in a hospice as it is less expensive for the insurer. US hospital mortality data would not capture these cases.
When it comes to comparing the outcomes of the US and England, Sir Brian notes that the data doesn’t take into account the fact that in America those without hospital insurance (who tend to be poorer and are often in worse health) might avoid a hospital admission because they can’t afford the medical bills. He makes the following point: “The US system is very different from the UK and the US spends more than twice as much per person on healthcare as the UK and still has lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality rates.”
NHS struggles to retain trained staff after years of Conservative Government enforced pay freezes, no ■■■■ Sherlock.
Although no doubt an Internationals removal company might have an ulterior motive in making make the option of moving far more attractive?
Twoninety88: but why were so many Americans against an NHS style heath service?
Because they are constantly told how bad and expensive the NHS and other national healthcare systems are, although maybe they should look at how is telling them its so bad, they’d probably find it’s the politicians and others who have a vested interest in the US private healthcare system.
This isn’t to say that NHS is perfect, probably far from it and it is no doubt easy to show how bad it is at times, but for many of us, it does work when we really need it.
Ive got simple views on many things in life and with the NHS it is if you havent contributed you cant take.
No I dont mean the poor sod who was born disabled and can never work or the equally poor sod who wa sinjured at work and by injured I mean proper injury not a bad back!, I mean the sponging dog turds who milk everything for whats it worth.
I also think if you havent contributed you shoudlnt have the right to vote as you simply dont deserve the right to say what goes on if you dont pay for it,
I’ve been poor health this year and have had a couple of spells in hospital. I’ve always been a fan of the NHS, one of the greatest inventions the world has ever seen but even I have even more respect for them after using them. My second spell involved me wandering in to A&E after I had a flare up away from home and they were amazing. Spent 5 days 4 nights in there as a result and couldn’t help but think how stress free the experience was. A friend was hospitalized abroad recently and the stress involved spring of who’s paying was intense and can only make you worse. All you are left to worry about with the NHS is your health and getting better, as it should be. Long live the NHS
The 96% plunge in EU nurses joining the UK register following the Brexit. [vote]
So are you saying Brexit was a bad thing for our NHS?
The drop in foreign nurses from all parts of the world was due to the tightening of the English language test that foreign nurses have to do to work in the NHS, friend of my sisters was involved in this and said that once the standard was raised the numbers who could pass plunged, it was announced this week that the standard is to be relaxed to enable the NHS to fill gaps, conveniently for remainers the new exam came in around the time of the Brexit vote and so was used to blame decreasing numbers of EU nurses on the Brexit vote
The 96% plunge in EU nurses joining the UK register following the Brexit. [vote]
So are you saying Brexit was a bad thing for our NHS?
The drop in foreign nurses from all parts of the world was due to the tightening of the English language test that foreign nurses have to do to work in the NHS, friend of my sisters was involved in this and said that once the standard was raised the numbers who could pass plunged, it was announced this week that the standard is to be relaxed to enable the NHS to fill gaps, conveniently for remainers the new exam came in around the time of the Brexit vote and so was used to blame decreasing numbers of EU nurses on the Brexit vote
Clearly there are a lot of factors involved here.
We do need nurses to speak English well. We seem to be losing some recent immigrant workers with desirable skills, post Brexit vote.
Underlying any of this though, why do we need to rely on imported medical staff? Why is it we don’t have enough home grown recruits?
Maybe some of it is under funding and the constant criticism from politicians? The same politicians, that say they love the NHS, then effectively cut it’s funding.
The 96% plunge in EU nurses joining the UK register following the Brexit. [vote]
So are you saying Brexit was a bad thing for our NHS?
The drop in foreign nurses from all parts of the world was due to the tightening of the English language test that foreign nurses have to do to work in the NHS, friend of my sisters was involved in this and said that once the standard was raised the numbers who could pass plunged, it was announced this week that the standard is to be relaxed to enable the NHS to fill gaps, conveniently for remainers the new exam came in around the time of the Brexit vote and so was used to blame decreasing numbers of EU nurses on the Brexit vote
That wasn’t really the point of the post, more was that Carryfast, Trucknet Brexiteer in Chief had posted an article by Polly Toynbee, in which she claimed Brexit was partially responsible for causing a crisis in the NHS. I just loved the irony.
Will speak with my uncle about life before the NHS as he was born in 1919
In recent years I have used the NHS due to bad back ( all in the health forum if you want a read ) back fractured prolapsed disc excessive wear crumbling disc so sorry to be sponging for bad back did take 30 years to find this
I also have used the NHS in recent years for other things as some may remember I fell of the back of the trailer result fractured ankle ruptured Achilles was in hospital just over a week I had excellent care a good surgeon then several trips back & intense physio all on the NHS I know it is not perfect but would rather have this than have a huge bill at the end my son broke his leg 6 MTh later was taken to another local hospital but didn’t receive the same level of care that I did although good not as good he was in a ward with 3 others 1 of them was taking no notice as he was walking around was told not to was supposed to stay in bed with leg raised but didn’t speak said he didn’t understand enough English sat up with feet down most of day this was the drain we both said he should be told to leave as was taking up a bed
Think the NHS still can learn from other countries on some things but other countries might like to look at our system & have something like it in place
Remember though the commonwealth countries & citizens can still come here & take
Pat Hasler:
All you young people who regularly ask me about how do they get to live and work in the USA, think on this one before you are evn tempted to think of such a move.
Some of you already know I have cancer and that I still have to work because if I stop I will lose all my health care rights. About 6 months ago my wife got sick and has been going in and out of hospital since then, so far I have taken 7 weeks off, some full weeks or even fortnights with the odd few days back at work, I have to say my company have been remarkable, they leave my truck parked at my house and in no way expect me to let her cope on her own, so this is not in any way a slur on them, they are fantastic and keep checks on her daily, thus is a slur on how this country treat it’s citizens and residents. My wife gets nothing to help her, I do get half my average weekly pay from NY state but it only covers me for 8 weeks and I now have just 4 days of the funds left, my wife is now in intensive care and has been rushed to over 4 different hospitals, one of which is in New Hampshire and over 110 miles away, I have to driver 220 miles a day just to sit with her, each time an ambulance collects her I get a $1,000 bill or even higher, her treatment bill is now a staggering $160,000 just for hospital stays, if I don’t keep working at least 2 days a week I loose all health care or cover and so does she, by the way, my own health care bill is way over half a million, we have no possible way of paying these bills, each time she is taken to hospital or I take her to see her local doctor I am asked for my insurance card, if I can’t produce it there will be just basic pain killers and comfort treatment given to her and she will be sent home, the most recent 911 emergency call an ambulance had to come from a village in Vermont, I suspect because I now owe the local ambulance service over $7,000 and they probably refused to come. Don’t you guys even think life here is good because it’s not, don’t any of you complain about your wonderful NHSand if they want to put up your taxes to repair it, don’t complain, I have to pay $160 every week for health insurance but if ever I get so sick I have to stop work, I, my wife and my daughter will lose the [zb] cover we have.
I would love to be able to return home and live in the UK again but I can’t, my wife is not allowed to reside in the UK because she is not a UK citizen or a migrant, in any case she doesn’t want to leave the USA apart from on holiday.
I am just informing you dreamers what you can expect when or even if you actually did get a job here.
Just seeing this from a neutral position. I have a friend who has lived in the States for 30 odd years and married a US citizen (he is a dual citizen). She’s very sick and their bills for medical attention now run into tens of thousands of dollars - but tens of thousands of people owe as much if not more. My mate says he doesn’t even bother to open the bills any more - but he’s still there, living in the same house, doing the same job and so on.
You have the option - stay put or (I know your wife doesn’t want to move) - persuade her to come to the the UK and put yourselves at the mercy of the NHS. As a Brit I think that if you’re polite and persuasive enough (which I’m sure you could be) then she’ll get the attention she deserves. There are plenty of people here getting free medical care who don’t qualify for it. Good luck fella!
muckles:
That wasn’t really the point of the post, more was that Carryfast, Trucknet Brexiteer in Chief had posted an article by Polly Toynbee, in which she claimed Brexit was partially responsible for causing a crisis in the NHS. I just loved the irony.
Caused me a to have a wee frisson too!
C.F. giving us references from the dreaded MSM, The Guardian and The Indie, and quoting La Toynbee!
But, we maybe can thank him for pointing out the chronic under funding of the NHS?
It is an institution still staffed by people who try to do their best, for comparatively little financial reward. They may get rewards from a meaningful job well done, but pay dear for any errors they make too.
Although everyone seems to say they’re all lazy inefficient skivvers. (until they get to the sharp end, when they appreciate the bargain we`ve got).
whisperingsmith: > animal: > Remember though the commonwealth countries & citizens can still come here & take
Is that a thank you for their contribution in WW2" & also what we took from them ?
What the fact that we have raped there countries just saying but as I said can find out what it was like before we had the NHS when I see my uncle tomorrow due to fact he was born in 1919
Will speak with my uncle about life before the NHS as he was born in 1919
In recent years I have used the NHS due to bad back ( all in the health forum if you want a read ) back fractured prolapsed disc excessive wear crumbling disc so sorry to be sponging for bad back did take 30 years to find this
I also have used the NHS in recent years for other things as some may remember I fell of the back of the trailer result fractured ankle ruptured Achilles was in hospital just over a week I had excellent care a good surgeon then several trips back & intense physio all on the NHS I know it is not perfect but would rather have this than have a huge bill at the end my son broke his leg 6 MTh later was taken to another local hospital but didn’t receive the same level of care that I did although good not as good he was in a ward with 3 others 1 of them was taking no notice as he was walking around was told not to was supposed to stay in bed with leg raised but didn’t speak said he didn’t understand enough English sat up with feet down most of day this was the drain we both said he should be told to leave as was taking up a bed
Think the NHS still can learn from other countries on some things but other countries might like to look at our system & have something like it in place
Remember though the commonwealth countries & citizens can still come here & take
That’s right and remember brits come to Australia and take also, over here we have a Medicare system ., is it great no … but, when you see a specialist you pay and get a rebate … my daughter had an op to see her ENT we had to pay $270 and Medicare gave back $125 … we could of waited for her op to be done free on the public health system but we chose private $4k aus … it’s about time the NHS started charging … plenty of hypochondriacs who abuses the ambulance service … oh and here in NSW you pay for an ambulance an ambulance costs in experience for 35km $450,00 in QLD it’s free like the NHS … I paid in to the NHS for years and will use it when I return if needed.
Will speak with my uncle about life before the NHS as he was born in 1919
In recent years I have used the NHS due to bad back ( all in the health forum if you want a read ) back fractured prolapsed disc excessive wear crumbling disc so sorry to be sponging for bad back did take 30 years to find this
I also have used the NHS in recent years for other things as some may remember I fell of the back of the trailer result fractured ankle ruptured Achilles was in hospital just over a week I had excellent care a good surgeon then several trips back & intense physio all on the NHS I know it is not perfect but would rather have this than have a huge bill at the end my son broke his leg 6 MTh later was taken to another local hospital but didn’t receive the same level of care that I did although good not as good he was in a ward with 3 others 1 of them was taking no notice as he was walking around was told not to was supposed to stay in bed with leg raised but didn’t speak said he didn’t understand enough English sat up with feet down most of day this was the drain we both said he should be told to leave as was taking up a bed
Think the NHS still can learn from other countries on some things but other countries might like to look at our system & have something like it in place
Remember though the commonwealth countries & citizens can still come here & take
That’s right and remember brits come to Australia and take also, over here we have a Medicare system ., is it great no … but, when you see a specialist you pay and get a rebate … my daughter had an op to see her ENT we had to pay $270 and Medicare gave back $125 … we could of waited for her op to be done free on the public health system but we chose private $4k aus … it’s about time the NHS started charging … plenty of hypochondriacs who abuses the ambulance service … oh and here in NSW you pay for an ambulance an ambulance costs in experience for 35km $450,00 in QLD it’s free like the NHS … I paid in to the NHS for years and will use it when I return if needed.
This is quite true have family & friends in different parts of the world people move about all the time for a number of reasons you could say look at all the brits who took the German /dutch etc jobs in the 80’s
We all do what is best for our family at that time no right or wrong but what we think is best at that time
Best wishes Pat, I was due to have an op. on Thursday next, it was cancelled today, but I know it will be resolved and the op. performed shortly, at no cost to me. I think we are a similar age (71) , although I do work occasional days it’s my choice, and my retirement seems to be a lot easier than yours. Thank the Lord for the NHS. Regards Kev.
I would like to add my support and best wishes to Pat.
There were three doctors in my family during my father’s generation, two professors of medicine and a GP. They all said exactly the same thing: you would not have wanted to be poor and ill before the NHS.
The GP wrote two books about his experiences as a doctor and his childhood memories of his village schoolmaster father struggling to meet the ongoing cost of TB care for the children’s dying mother. His career started off in 1929 when he had to buy his way in installments into a small town practice. He wrote about the tragedy he witnessed of children and young adults dying of diseases which we can routinely treat today: scarlet fever, polio, diptheria, pneumonia etc; the arguments among his colleagues when the drugs did become available, about prescribing those expensive new drugs to patients who couldn’t afford to pay, the sacrifices made by families so that they could pay their doctors’ bills, the colliery accidents he attended and the victims who couldn’t work because of their injuries and their families determination to pay for their treatment somehow, and the relief when treatment became free to all with the NHS in 1948.
We have forgotten all this because we have been lucky enough not to have experienced it.
Even forgetting that the Yanks are adamant that they see the ability to go around shooting one another as a constitutional right, without that I still think they are completely out of their tree with all the objection to Obama’s attempt to provide health care. Basically it is simply because the richer ones don’t like the idea of having to pay towards someone else’s treatment.
If you’re rich in the USA,you probably do get the best healthcare in the world but apart from that, the NHS wins hands down.
The biggest problem wih the NHS is that it is run by the GOV.
GOV’s are no good at running any type of business efficiently.
The GOV should be funding it with a small mixed group of very experienced doctors/nurses/businessmen running it, being able to cut admin to the bone, upping the DR’s/nuses wages and putting the funding where it is needed most.
Then, also, anybody who cannot produce a Nat Ins number will not get treated free, if you go to the UK on holiday, a temporary work permit, etc. you must have holiday health ins cover.
No operations whatsoever for body changing should be funded by NHS.
Here in Alberta, we get, free at the point of use, providing we show our Alberta health card, DR’s, Hospital treatment inc surgery and stays.
Anything else ie. Dentists, Chiro, Prescriptions, Eyecare etc. has to be paid for either by private health ins which I am lucky enough to have through work which covers 90% of the cost of this.
I have one prescription that I have to take for the rest of my life that costs $230/mth here which you would pay £8.80 for.
