change.org/p/the-prime-mini … 0838-en-GB
Petition to have Blair’s new years honour rescinded, i’ve signed it.
never seen a petition rising in number so fast, it won’t change anything but will confirm the sheer number of people with internet access/interest who despise the sod.
I get the feeling the monarchy has just made itself more unpopular than ever by the queen agreeing (orders from someone in the shadows?) to this sham.
Petition to have Blair’s new years honour rescinded, i’ve signed it.
never seen a petition rising in number so fast, it won’t change anything but will confirm the sheer number of people with internet access/interest who despise the sod.I get the feeling the monarchy has just made itself more unpopular than ever by the queen agreeing (orders from someone in the shadows?) to this sham.
I just signed on too. It might not change anything but I believe it is essential to speak up and let my feelings be known. You might too, in which case I would urge you to consider signing up too. I have passed it on to my family for them to consider.
As an aside I actually met this man when he was PM. He struck me as an insincere poser of a person. I was certainly not impressed and his subsequent actions and declarations have done nothing to change my opinion.
Dipster:
As an aside I actually met this man when he was PM. He struck me as an insincere poser of a person. I was certainly not impressed and his subsequent actions and declarations have done nothing to change my opinion.
I have the greatest sympathy, did you need counselling afterwards or did daily hot showers and rubbing yourself down with sandpaper and Vim over the following months remove the stain.
Can’t think of anyone still apparently alive who i’d rather avoid like the plague than that creature, despite the stiff competition.
Juddian:
Dipster:
As an aside I actually met this man when he was PM. He struck me as an insincere poser of a person. I was certainly not impressed and his subsequent actions and declarations have done nothing to change my opinion.
I have the greatest sympathy, did you need counselling afterwards or did daily hot showers and rubbing yourself down with sandpaper and Vim over the following months remove the stain.
Can’t think of anyone still apparently alive who i’d rather avoid like the plague than that creature, despite the stiff competition.
Just to clarify things my meeting with him was not by choice. It was a professional obligation which I will not enlarge upon. But certainly not by choice. No harm done, I survived…
Juddian:
Dipster:
As an aside I actually met this man when he was PM. He struck me as an insincere poser of a person. I was certainly not impressed and his subsequent actions and declarations have done nothing to change my opinion.
I have the greatest sympathy, did you need counselling afterwards or did daily hot showers and rubbing yourself down with sandpaper and Vim over the following months remove the stain.
Can’t think of anyone still apparently alive who i’d rather avoid like the plague than that creature, despite the stiff competition.
Henry Kissinger springs to mind or the Clintons.
I think it is easy to look back retrospectively like a know it all.
Pre 9/11 we had an attitude of just leaving failed states and tin-pot dictators to do their own thing.
Then 9/11 happened. We realised we could not just leave Afghaninstan to be free real estate for terrorism. Literally, anyone could move in and operate out of there without issue.
So I think the case for the Afghan war is quite strong.
The case for the Iraq war is more complex. Did Hussien have weapons of mass destruction? Yes. he did. Granted not at the point of invasion but historically he had them and he used them.
It is important to point out that WMDs do not just mean nukes. It means chemical weapons such as saren gas.
He also repeatedly disrupted attempts to have inspectors check his stockpiles.
Think what you but want we do not live in the 19th century anymore. We can not allow a foreign nation to act how they want without reprisal. We live in a world in which a single missle can decimate the western world.
The failure of the west was not the going to war in Iraq in 2003 but not finishing the job in the first gulf war.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anfal_campaign
thekurdishproject.org/history-a … -genocide/
This is a guy who used mustard gas on civilians. Which has been banned since the first world war.
Even Hitler did not use that during world war 2.
I have the greatest sympathy, did you need counselling afterwards or did daily hot showers and rubbing yourself down with sandpaper and Vim over the following months remove the stain.
Can’t think of anyone still apparently alive who i’d rather avoid like the plague than that creature, despite the stiff competition.
[/quote]
Henry Kissinger springs to mind or the Clintons.
I think it is easy to look back retrospectively like a know it all.
Pre 9/11 we had an attitude of just leaving failed states and tin-pot dictators to do their own thing.
Then 9/11 happened. We realised we could not just leave Afghaninstan to be free real estate for terrorism. Literally, anyone could move in and operate out of there without issue.
So I think the case for the Afghan war is quite strong.
The case for the Iraq war is more complex. Did Hussien have weapons of mass destruction? Yes. he did. Granted not at the point of invasion but historically he had them and he used them.
It is important to point out that WMDs do not just mean nukes. It means chemical weapons such as saren gas.
He also repeatedly disrupted attempts to have inspectors check his stockpiles.
Think what you but want we do not live in the 19th century anymore. We can not allow a foreign nation to act how they want without reprisal. We live in a world in which a single missle can decimate the western world.
The failure of the west was not the going to war in Iraq in 2003 but not finishing the job in the first gulf war.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anfal_campaign
thekurdishproject.org/history-a … -genocide/
This is a guy who used mustard gas on civilians. Which has been banned since the first world war.
Even Hitler did not use that during world war 2.
[/quote]
I can understand your thinking that Saddam (there were and are others) was a repugnant creature who should have been overthrown and disposed of. But I think the reason so many people take exception to Blair is simply that there were so many lies given to justify doing so, and he promoted so many of them. Many think we were the obedient poodle to the US to ensure that so many of Bushes friends got even more fabulously wealthy than they were (through arm sales, all the logistics and private security contracts) and the US hoped to get the oil. The French were wise to this and declined to join in.
I think it was all for oil or we were America’s lapdog makes a good newspaper headline.
Not much else.
It’s like when people proudly claim how dumb Boris is. Or make a quip about him when they don’t even know how to tie their own shoelaces. He has many flaws for sure but being dumb is not one of them.
A bit off topic but just spent an hour listening to LBC in which they dedicate an hour to mocking Boris.
As for Blair he got reelected in 2005. Two years into the Iraq war. With like a 100 seat majority or something silly like that
I think I remember at the time alot of people treated stop the war protesters much like we treat extinction rebellion now.
The Iraq situation is complex for sure and Blair deserves his share of the blame as we were not prepared.
I don’t think it’s as black and white as many people make out though.
I know the Kurdish people are alot happier now that Saddam is gone as well.
Here is another interesting thought.
Tony Blair is actually the best prime minister since Thatcher.
For example.
John Major Did not do much. Probably the best thing I can say is he got rid of the poll tax.
David Cameron. I might struggle to find anything good with this one. He tripled Tuition fees, he introduced a bedroom tax and we had best part of a decade of Austerity with him. Oh and he started the Referendum craze first with Scotland then with the EU.
Theresa May Again, I am struggling to find anything good. She did notify the EU that the UK is leaving the Union but failed to get a deal.
Boris Johnson He’s withdrawn us from the EU and has managed to get a deal without forcing to be be apart of the schengen zone. Whether that is good or not is up to you. He has commited a lot of money to infrastructure projects. And all the covid relief.
*Gordan Brown I think he would of made a decent prime minister but he basically did not have enough time as PM to really do anything other than manage the financial crisis. And I’m not gonna blame labour for the lack of regulation on the banks because the Tories would of been in the same boat because they hate regulating banks.
Now Tony Blair.
Good Friday Agreement
Same ■■■ civil partnerships
Made Dentists on the NHS more accessible for everyone. Although there were teething issues. 
National minimum wage
Introducing Freedom of Information act
Pensioners were about £2000 year better off due to his benefits policy.
Improved the education system a lot and got more people into Universities.
independent.co.uk/voices/ne … 82031.html
There is actually a lot more with Tony Blair. Feel free to search it or if you want recall some of the stuff he did.
Now imagine if the Tories were in power instead. What would of happened is we would of still went to war but we would of lost out on all the social and educational reforms. The reason Blair got his 3rd term despite the war was because he made a lot of regular people better off. Don’t forget the Tories supported the war in Iraq as well.
Food for thought 
Blair is desperate to implement vaccine passports…so he can ■■■■ right off for me.
adam277:
Here is another interesting thought.
Tony Blair is actually the best prime minister since Thatcher.For example.
John Major Did not do much. Probably the best thing I can say is he got rid of the poll tax.
David Cameron. I might struggle to find anything good with this one. He tripled Tuition fees, he introduced a bedroom tax and we had best part of a decade of Austerity with him. Oh and he started the Referendum craze first with Scotland then with the EU.
Theresa May Again, I am struggling to find anything good. She did notify the EU that the UK is leaving the Union but failed to get a deal.
Boris Johnson He’s withdrawn us from the EU and has managed to get a deal without forcing to be be apart of the schengen zone. Whether that is good or not is up to you. He has commited a lot of money to infrastructure projects. And all the covid relief.
*Gordan Brown I think he would of made a decent prime minister but he basically did not have enough time as PM to really do anything other than manage the financial crisis. And I’m not gonna blame labour for the lack of regulation on the banks because the Tories would of been in the same boat because they hate regulating banks.Now Tony Blair.
Good Friday Agreement
Same ■■■ civil partnerships
Made Dentists on the NHS more accessible for everyone. Although there were teething issues.
National minimum wage
Introducing Freedom of Information act
Pensioners were about £2000 year better off due to his benefits policy.
Improved the education system a lot and got more people into Universities.
independent.co.uk/voices/ne … 82031.htmlThere is actually a lot more with Tony Blair. Feel free to search it or if you want recall some of the stuff he did.
Now imagine if the Tories were in power instead. What would of happened is we would of still went to war but we would of lost out on all the social and educational reforms. The reason Blair got his 3rd term despite the war was because he made a lot of regular people better off. Don’t forget the Tories supported the war in Iraq as well.Food for thought
Johnson isnot totally stupid.
He does however say many, many, stupid things.
For a long time he had many news editors, themselves under the instructions of their bosses, refuse to criticise him.
He has not been examined in the same public way that many others are.
As a useful tool to big finance he gets a lot of free rides. He isnt a good leader for those businesses that actually makes or moves *things*, but is good for those who just shove money around. For those who call themselves "investors", but in reality are leeches on industry, he is awful. He is in thrall to those who take money out without adding to the system, not the true entrepreneurs who risk capital in production, and work hard, but he is for those who merely scheme to make money from money. Lets differentiate between those who are in business to do stuff: make or invent things, and actually do stuff that has an end result, and can make money doing so; rather than those who use money to move money and make money, with no other use than even more money for a small number of them.
Back to Johnson,
He has said stupid things, because he gets away with it too often.
Many times because he says things people want to be true. They want to believe he is right. Time and again it happens, ask his wives.
adam277:
I think it was all for oil or we were America’s lapdog makes a good newspaper headline.
Not much else.It’s like when people proudly claim how dumb Boris is. Or make a quip about him when they don’t even know how to tie their own shoelaces. He has many flaws for sure but being dumb is not one of them.
A bit off topic but just spent an hour listening to LBC in which they dedicate an hour to mocking Boris.As for Blair he got reelected in 2005. Two years into the Iraq war. With like a 100 seat majority or something silly like that
I think I remember at the time alot of people treated stop the war protesters much like we treat extinction rebellion now.The Iraq situation is complex for sure and Blair deserves his share of the blame as we were not prepared.
I don’t think it’s as black and white as many people make out though.
I know the Kurdish people are alot happier now that Saddam is gone as well.
I was in Iraq at the time.
It was mishandled to a very obvious degree and left the Iraqis in a far worse state than under Saddam.
I’m proud of my service there but utterly disgusted at what the coalition failed to do.
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GFA sold ex services down the river…
Great headlines but at a time when the IRA was a spent force
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Monkey241:
GFA sold ex services down the river…Great headlines but at a time when the IRA was a spent force
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Some for sure. Alot did some messed up things over there and needed to be held to account.
adam277:
Monkey241:
GFA sold ex services down the river…Great headlines but at a time when the IRA was a spent force
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Some for sure. Alot did some messed up things over there and needed to be held to account.
Did some messed up things…
But most did nothing in comparison to bombing civilians etc. What you don’t do is give letters guaranteeing immunity to known terrorists whilst applying real justice to service men and women.
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adam277:
Monkey241:
GFA sold ex services down the river…Great headlines but at a time when the IRA was a spent force
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Some for sure. Alot did some messed up things over there and needed to be held to account.
Think you need to define alot, considering how many military personel served in N.I. those who broke the law account for a very, very small percentage, hard to believe listening to the press today but the IRA killed more Catholics than both the Army and the RUC combined either an amnesty for all of for none.
Mazzer2:
adam277:
Monkey241:
GFA sold ex services down the river…Great headlines but at a time when the IRA was a spent force
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
Some for sure. Alot did some messed up things over there and needed to be held to account.
Think you need to define alot, considering how many military personel served in N.I. those who broke the law account for a very, very small percentage, hard to believe listening to the press today but the IRA killed more Catholics than both the Army and the RUC combined either an amnesty for all of for none.
I think we should stick to the original topic. We can create another topic if you want to discuss it.
Monkey241:
adam277:
I think it was all for oil or we were America’s lapdog makes a good newspaper headline.
Not much else.It’s like when people proudly claim how dumb Boris is. Or make a quip about him when they don’t even know how to tie their own shoelaces. He has many flaws for sure but being dumb is not one of them.
A bit off topic but just spent an hour listening to LBC in which they dedicate an hour to mocking Boris.As for Blair he got reelected in 2005. Two years into the Iraq war. With like a 100 seat majority or something silly like that
I think I remember at the time alot of people treated stop the war protesters much like we treat extinction rebellion now.The Iraq situation is complex for sure and Blair deserves his share of the blame as we were not prepared.
I don’t think it’s as black and white as many people make out though.
I know the Kurdish people are alot happier now that Saddam is gone as well.I was in Iraq at the time.
It was mishandled to a very obvious degree and left the Iraqis in a far worse state than under Saddam.
I’m proud of my service there but utterly disgusted at what the coalition failed to do.
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
I think most people will agree the Iraq war was handled badly. But I think we did need to go and Iraq is a better place now thanks to the British and American soliders.
One of the issues being at the start was not trying to involve the Iraqi’s more in rebuilding the state. For example although there was support from Kurdish Iraqis. They were the minority and more needed to be done to get the Sunni and ■■■■■■ Iraqi’s on board.
Either way, go back to 2003 polls you will find 54 percent supported the Iraq war at the time. It also went through parliament and was backed by both sides of the house. This was not just Blair’s decision. It could not of happened if parliament said no.
adam277:
Mazzer2:
adam277:
Monkey241:
GFA sold ex services down the river…Great headlines but at a time when the IRA was a spent force
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
Some for sure. Alot did some messed up things over there and needed to be held to account.
Think you need to define alot, considering how many military personel served in N.I. those who broke the law account for a very, very small percentage, hard to believe listening to the press today but the IRA killed more Catholics than both the Army and the RUC combined either an amnesty for all of for none.
I think we should stick to the original topic. We can create another topic if you want to discuss it.
Monkey241:
adam277:
I think it was all for oil or we were America’s lapdog makes a good newspaper headline.
Not much else.It’s like when people proudly claim how dumb Boris is. Or make a quip about him when they don’t even know how to tie their own shoelaces. He has many flaws for sure but being dumb is not one of them.
A bit off topic but just spent an hour listening to LBC in which they dedicate an hour to mocking Boris.As for Blair he got reelected in 2005. Two years into the Iraq war. With like a 100 seat majority or something silly like that
I think I remember at the time alot of people treated stop the war protesters much like we treat extinction rebellion now.The Iraq situation is complex for sure and Blair deserves his share of the blame as we were not prepared.
I don’t think it’s as black and white as many people make out though.
I know the Kurdish people are alot happier now that Saddam is gone as well.I was in Iraq at the time.
It was mishandled to a very obvious degree and left the Iraqis in a far worse state than under Saddam.
I’m proud of my service there but utterly disgusted at what the coalition failed to do.
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
I think most people will agree the Iraq war was handled badly. But I think we did need to go and Iraq is a better place now thanks to the British and American soliders.
One of the issues being at the start was not trying to involve the Iraqi’s more in rebuilding the state. For example although there was support from Kurdish Iraqis. They were the minority and more needed to be done to get the Sunni and [zb] Iraqi’s on board.Either way, go back to 2003 polls you will find 54 percent supported the Iraq war at the time. It also went through parliament and was backed by both sides of the house. This was not just Blair’s decision. It could not of happened if parliament said no.
You have no idea what occurred after the invasion second time around.
We were told to stand by as assets were looted.
You don’t want to discuss Northern Ireland NOW?
Yet you’re quite happy to traduce the reputation of several hundreds of thousands soldiers?
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adam277:
Mazzer2:
adam277:
Monkey241:
GFA sold ex services down the river…Great headlines but at a time when the IRA was a spent force
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
Some for sure. Alot did some messed up things over there and needed to be held to account.
Think you need to define alot, considering how many military personel served in N.I. those who broke the law account for a very, very small percentage, hard to believe listening to the press today but the IRA killed more Catholics than both the Army and the RUC combined either an amnesty for all of for none.
I think we should stick to the original topic. We can create another topic if you want to discuss it.
Monkey241:
adam277:
I think it was all for oil or we were America’s lapdog makes a good newspaper headline.
Not much else.It’s like when people proudly claim how dumb Boris is. Or make a quip about him when they don’t even know how to tie their own shoelaces. He has many flaws for sure but being dumb is not one of them.
A bit off topic but just spent an hour listening to LBC in which they dedicate an hour to mocking Boris.As for Blair he got reelected in 2005. Two years into the Iraq war. With like a 100 seat majority or something silly like that
I think I remember at the time alot of people treated stop the war protesters much like we treat extinction rebellion now.The Iraq situation is complex for sure and Blair deserves his share of the blame as we were not prepared.
I don’t think it’s as black and white as many people make out though.
I know the Kurdish people are alot happier now that Saddam is gone as well.I was in Iraq at the time.
It was mishandled to a very obvious degree and left the Iraqis in a far worse state than under Saddam.
I’m proud of my service there but utterly disgusted at what the coalition failed to do.
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
I think most people will agree the Iraq war was handled badly. But I think we did need to go and Iraq is a better place now thanks to the British and American soliders.
One of the issues being at the start was not trying to involve the Iraqi’s more in rebuilding the state. For example although there was support from Kurdish Iraqis. They were the minority and more needed to be done to get the Sunni and [zb] Iraqi’s on board.Either way, go back to 2003 polls you will find 54 percent supported the Iraq war at the time. It also went through parliament and was backed by both sides of the house. This was not just Blair’s decision. It could not of happened if parliament said no.
54 per cent voted for the war?
And?
I suggest you check the legal grounds for declaring war under international war.
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International law is largely irrelevant.
If the USA invaded Canada no one would do anything
Who even enforces international law now? The UN? They were losing power twenty years ago and now no one takes anything they say seriously.
So ye public opinion means more then if some beuracrats in new York give it the thumbs up.
I have a pretty good idea what happened in Iraq which is why I’m agreeing with you about it being managed so poorly
As for the northern Ireland issue. I could post links to soldiers killing kids, ■■■■ incidents etc. You would respond saying they are the tiny minority. I think alot of soldiers got away with an awful lot to be honest. Even some of them who did get convicted ended up getting pardoned.
I don’t see us agreeing on the issue.
But on the whole I think the good Friday agreement was a good thing. Blair deserves some credit for it
Also I think alot of soldiers got away with some messed up crap in Iraq and Afghanistan. Soldiers who think the law does not apply to them should be convicted.
adam277:
International law is largely irrelevant.
If the USA invaded Canada no one would do anything
Who even enforces international law now? The UN? They were losing power twenty years ago and now no one takes anything they say seriously.So ye public opinion means more then if some beuracrats in new York give it the thumbs up.
I have a pretty good idea what happened in Iraq which is why I’m agreeing with you about it being managed so poorly
As for the northern Ireland issue. I could post links to soldiers killing kids, ■■■■ incidents etc. You would respond saying they are the tiny minority. I think alot of soldiers got away with an awful lot to be honest. Even some of them who did get convicted ended up getting pardoned.
I don’t see us agreeing on the issue.
But on the whole I think the good Friday agreement was a good thing. Blair deserves some credit for itAlso I think alot of soldiers got away with some messed up crap in Iraq and Afghanistan. Soldiers who think the law does not apply to them should be convicted.
Hmmm… you’ll disagree on Ni?
Did you serve?
As for Iraq you have a good idea? Any experience of the immediate aftermath? Be under no illusion that ISIS was a direct result
As for international law any argument as to morality of the invasion goes straight out the window once you realise the invasion had no legal basis.
Parlt supported Blair because he lied
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