I’ve probably told you this one before, but for the benefit of new members, here it is again.
My lorry has the Electronic Brake Assist, where it’ll brake if it thinks I won’t. On one occasion I was driving over the Penines during a snow storm. All of a sudden my dash lit up with warning lights telling me the EBA was being disabled because the radar was blocked (by snow).
Luckily, there was a driver (Me!) at the wheel to carry on. What would a fully automatic lorry have done?
Captain Caveman 76:
I’ve probably told you this one before, but for the benefit of new members, here it is again.My lorry has the Electronic Brake Assist, where it’ll brake if it thinks I won’t. On one occasion I was driving over the Penines during a snow storm. All of a sudden my dash lit up with warning lights telling me the EBA was being disabled because the radar was blocked (by snow).
Luckily, there was a driver (Me!) at the wheel to carry on. What would a fully automatic lorry have done?
Yup. First time an automated car/lorry whatever fails and crashes killing other people they’ll be screaming to bring back drivers.
Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
Captain Caveman 76:
I’ve probably told you this one before, but for the benefit of new members, here it is again.My lorry has the Electronic Brake Assist, where it’ll brake if it thinks I won’t. On one occasion I was driving over the Penines during a snow storm. All of a sudden my dash lit up with warning lights telling me the EBA was being disabled because the radar was blocked (by snow).
Luckily, there was a driver (Me!) at the wheel to carry on. What would a fully automatic lorry have done?
Probably stopped and used some type of heating system to clear the radar, then carried on again.
IronEddie:
I doubt it’d be retro imposed with scrapage grants. The process will need to be gradual. Simply because the government couldn’t handle a massive hit on the public coffers from lots of former drivers suddenly signing on the dole, other benefits or even starting to draw their pension.Mostly likely it’ll get phased in as hauliers replace old vehicles they’ll do so with robotic ones.
Though I doubt manufacturers will stop selling human controlled lorries. But offer both kinds. Afterall car makers haven’t stopped selling petrol or dielsel models. They do so alongside hybrid and all electric. Despite government incentives for the buyer.
Anyway I just need to work another 37 years. Just hope it takes that long haha!
The scary thing is that while I’d like to believe that it will be a matter of gradual phasing and still even after that combined with freedom of choice.All the signs are that the agenda is one of compulsory change both with regard to internal combustion engines v EV’s and robot driven vehicles.While it’s difficult to see how they could make it work any other way.On that note I’ve seen no confirmation of either move being one of freedom of choice within the propaganda blitz telling us how good all this would/will be.
While it’s equally obvious that the probably justified backlash against diesel is just cover for them actually intending to hit all types of internal combustion engine use.Which probably explains why it’s possible to see an all Electric powered motor race series.But it’s not possible to see 12 cylinder Astons battling with 7 litre Corvettes at Le Mans.With the rule makers having simply outlawed such engines with a line in the rule book for just one example of the insidious nature of this control freak agenda.If they can get away with doing that without a murmur of complaint within the motor racing scene then obviously anything is possible regarding what’s allowed or not allowed on the road.With what seems like a system of rationing in which manufacturers not only have to limit production of such types with price levels to match but also have to offset the numbers with far greater numbers of mickey mouse eco options and Hybrid and EV type toys in which the next stage seems predictable enough. 
As for the economic implications of excessive automation generally and resulting mass redundancies within the transport sector for one example,unfortunately previous experience suggests that the government isn’t actually bright enough to understand them.With wages being seen as a liability to the economy and not an essential part of the chain that keeps it all turning.In which case the best case scenario in this case would be one of freedom of choice which would still at least allow those who want to drive to maybe continue as an owner driver.Combined with the responsibility for any resulting unemployment caused by automation to be put onto ex employers.In the form of unemployment benefits/retirement pensions for redundant employees paid for by the massive taxation of the earnings made by the robots.
Harry Monk:
Captain Caveman 76:
I’ve probably told you this one before, but for the benefit of new members, here it is again.My lorry has the Electronic Brake Assist, where it’ll brake if it thinks I won’t. On one occasion I was driving over the Penines during a snow storm. All of a sudden my dash lit up with warning lights telling me the EBA was being disabled because the radar was blocked (by snow).
Luckily, there was a driver (Me!) at the wheel to carry on. What would a fully automatic lorry have done?
Probably stopped and used some type of heating system to clear the radar, then carried on again.
Blimey at that rate they’ll need all of the truck to carry the ECU needed to drive it. 
While if the Air France Airbus examples are anything to go by it’ll probably send an automated call back to base saying it can’t see anything please advise what to do next and being answered by an automated answerphone message please call back at 9 am tomorrow when someone can take the call. 
IronEddie:
Afterall car makers haven’t stopped selling petrol or dielsel models. They do so alongside hybrid and all electric.
You couldn’t have mis-timed that statement any better!
IronEddie:
First time an automated car/lorry whatever fails and crashes killing other people they’ll be screaming to bring back drivers.Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
They didn’t get rid of car/truck drivers when they started killing people, did they? Acceptable collateral damage…! Statistically speaking I’d fully expect driverless trucks to be much less likely to be involved in accidents than human piloted vehicles.
JakeWS:
I couldn’t be bothered to read all the thread, but I’m 22 and just passed my class 1. I was 2 years into a Degree in Economics, when I took a year out, did my class 1, and will be finishing my degree part time at the open university. I’ve found a job which pays me £500+ per week through the agency, suits my life style giving me plenty of time to study, and allows me to move out of my Mum’s house and get my own space as I’m now no longer some broke ■■■ home student, I think the industry is what you make of it, and while it may not be my lifelong career, it is serving me very well right now.
Watch this space… 
TiredAndEmotional:
IronEddie:
Afterall car makers haven’t stopped selling petrol or dielsel models. They do so alongside hybrid and all electric.You couldn’t have mis-timed that statement any better! [emoji38]
■■■■.
IronEddie:
I doubt it’d be retro imposed with scrapage grants.If it makes economic sense to industry they will adopt it, no encouragement needed.
The process will need to be gradual. Simply because the government couldn’t handle a massive hit on the public coffers from lots of former drivers suddenly signing on the dole, other benefits or even starting to draw their pension.
The speed of the process will be determined solely by competition pressure within industry as it always has been. Industry will not be concerned in the slightest about making staff redundant.
This is also as it has always been. For almost the last 30 years government has been decidely pro=business and will view redundancies as an opportunity to remind the other proles how lucky they are to still have a job. Pretty much as it’s always been.Mostly likely it’ll get phased in as hauliers replace old vehicles they’ll do so with robotic ones.
Wot? Like they always have?
Though I doubt manufacturers will stop selling human controlled lorries. But offer both kinds. Afterall car makers haven’t stopped selling petrol or dielsel models. They do so alongside hybrid and all electric. Despite government incentives for the buyer.
Anyway I just need to work another 37 years. Just hope it takes that long haha!
In 37 years time you’ll be writing the same sort of stuff us old 'uns are now. And that’s how it’s always been!!!
I wish you youngsters good luck in dealing with whatever the future serves up to you.
Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
TiredAndEmotional:
IronEddie:
I doubt it’d be retro imposed with scrapage grants.If it makes economic sense to industry they will adopt it, no encouragement needed.
The process will need to be gradual. Simply because the government couldn’t handle a massive hit on the public coffers from lots of former drivers suddenly signing on the dole, other benefits or even starting to draw their pension.
The speed of the process will be determined solely by competition pressure within industry as it always has been. Industry will not be concerned in the slightest about making staff redundant.
This is also as it has always been. For almost the last 30 years government has been decidely pro=business and will view redundancies as an opportunity to remind the other proles how lucky they are to still have a job. Pretty much as it’s always been.Mostly likely it’ll get phased in as hauliers replace old vehicles they’ll do so with robotic ones.
Wot? Like they always have?
Though I doubt manufacturers will stop selling human controlled lorries. But offer both kinds. Afterall car makers haven’t stopped selling petrol or dielsel models. They do so alongside hybrid and all electric. Despite government incentives for the buyer.
Anyway I just need to work another 37 years. Just hope it takes that long haha!
In 37 years time you’ll be writing the same sort of stuff us old 'uns are now. And that’s how it’s always been!!!
I wish you youngsters good luck in dealing with whatever the future serves up to you.
Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
I’m really not convinced the government of the day will be ok with large numbers of redundancy. You’re right they often are. But we’re talking on a huge scale if robot lorries took over quickly.
I think any government, well maybe not a tory one, would have to do something to help all those suddenly without a job.
I dunno I’m youngish and still a little bit optimistic.
Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
IronEddie:
TiredAndEmotional:
IronEddie:
I doubt it’d be retro imposed with scrapage grants.If it makes economic sense to industry they will adopt it, no encouragement needed.
The process will need to be gradual. Simply because the government couldn’t handle a massive hit on the public coffers from lots of former drivers suddenly signing on the dole, other benefits or even starting to draw their pension.
The speed of the process will be determined solely by competition pressure within industry as it always has been. Industry will not be concerned in the slightest about making staff redundant.
This is also as it has always been. For almost the last 30 years government has been decidely pro=business and will view redundancies as an opportunity to remind the other proles how lucky they are to still have a job. Pretty much as it’s always been.Mostly likely it’ll get phased in as hauliers replace old vehicles they’ll do so with robotic ones.
Wot? Like they always have?
Though I doubt manufacturers will stop selling human controlled lorries. But offer both kinds. Afterall car makers haven’t stopped selling petrol or dielsel models. They do so alongside hybrid and all electric. Despite government incentives for the buyer.
Anyway I just need to work another 37 years. Just hope it takes that long haha!
In 37 years time you’ll be writing the same sort of stuff us old 'uns are now. And that’s how it’s always been!!!
I wish you youngsters good luck in dealing with whatever the future serves up to you.
Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
I’m really not convinced the government of the day will be ok with large numbers of redundancy. You’re right they often are. But we’re talking on a huge scale if robot lorries took over quickly.
I think any government, well maybe not a tory one, would have to do something to help all those suddenly without a job.
I dunno I’m youngish and still a little bit optimistic.
Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
I don’t think there will be redundancies en masse. Vehicles will be replaced as the fleet comes up for renewal. Contracts will be won and lost at different times thereby creating a more piecemeal approach to staff reduction. You should have a look back in time to see how ready and willing business and government are to push through mass redundancies when they see fit. I’m guessing you’ve never heard of the likes of British Steel, British Leyland, National Coal Board, Shipbuilding, buses with conductors, British Rail, large numbers of seamen put out of work by flags of convenience to be replaced by cheap foreign labour, stop me if any of this sounds familiar!
Taking a tip from Chairman May, here’s a complete U Turn.
Automated lorries will be phased in from Sept 11th 2017 and taking over completely from April 1st 2021, this is indisputable fact as its been discussed on the BBC Chanel number 4 and the Grauniad so it’s kosher, do not whatever you do bother to enter this industry, its entirely possible that you may never actually get to use the licence at all, and will be in debt to the tune of £3200 unless Comrade Corbyn is going to reimburse all training as well as tuition fees from the magic money tree that Gideon Osborne planted to replace the one he decimated.
There, that should do it, a proper shortage of drivers in due course 
TiredAndEmotional:
IronEddie:
TiredAndEmotional:
IronEddie:
I doubt it’d be retro imposed with scrapage grants.If it makes economic sense to industry they will adopt it, no encouragement needed.
The process will need to be gradual. Simply because the government couldn’t handle a massive hit on the public coffers from lots of former drivers suddenly signing on the dole, other benefits or even starting to draw their pension.
The speed of the process will be determined solely by competition pressure within industry as it always has been. Industry will not be concerned in the slightest about making staff redundant.
This is also as it has always been. For almost the last 30 years government has been decidely pro=business and will view redundancies as an opportunity to remind the other proles how lucky they are to still have a job. Pretty much as it’s always been.Mostly likely it’ll get phased in as hauliers replace old vehicles they’ll do so with robotic ones.
Wot? Like they always have?
Though I doubt manufacturers will stop selling human controlled lorries. But offer both kinds. Afterall car makers haven’t stopped selling petrol or dielsel models. They do so alongside hybrid and all electric. Despite government incentives for the buyer.
Anyway I just need to work another 37 years. Just hope it takes that long haha!
In 37 years time you’ll be writing the same sort of stuff us old 'uns are now. And that’s how it’s always been!!!
I wish you youngsters good luck in dealing with whatever the future serves up to you.
Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
I’m really not convinced the government of the day will be ok with large numbers of redundancy. You’re right they often are. But we’re talking on a huge scale if robot lorries took over quickly.
I think any government, well maybe not a tory one, would have to do something to help all those suddenly without a job.
I dunno I’m youngish and still a little bit optimistic.
Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
I don’t think there will be redundancies en masse. Vehicles will be replaced as the fleet comes up for renewal. Contracts will be won and lost at different times thereby creating a more piecemeal approach to staff reduction. You should have a look back in time to see how ready and willing business and government are to push through mass reduncies when they see fit. I’m guessing you’ve never heard of the likes of British Steel, British Leyland, National Coal Board, Shipbuilding, buses with conductors, British Rail, large numbers of seamen put out of work by flags of convenience to be replaced by cheap foreign labour, stop me if any of this sounds familiar!
Heard of yes but all well before my time. So I don’t have the knowledge or experience of living through those things.
I guess I’m hoping times have changed and it wouldn’t be quite the same now. Probably kidding myself.
Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
IronEddie,
This is a prime example of why you should never believe politicians or their chums in the mainstream media.
For all you know those mass redundancies (and the pit closures in particular decimated vast swathes of the country which have never fully recovered) might never have happened for all the times you hear about our true modern history, the trouble is the victors those who made £billions, or rather their whores, get to write and rewrite that history to suit what they wish to buy/sell/destroy next.
Peter Hitchen’s books if you spot any, such as ‘The Abolition of Britain’, are worth a read.
I’m currently reading Douglass Murray’s ‘The Strange Death of Europe’, that’s an eye opener.
You’re better informed than most younger people though mate, you’re asking questions and not blindly accepting the official line where they tell you what you want to hear, that alone will see you appearing on secret lists for when the re-education camps become more common , don’t worry mate there’s a few of us here already feature on lists of deplorables.
IronEddie:
TiredAndEmotional:
IronEddie:
Afterall car makers haven’t stopped selling petrol or dielsel models. They do so alongside hybrid and all electric.You couldn’t have mis-timed that statement any better! [emoji38]
■■■■.
It doesn’t say they are going all electric it says Hybrid and electric.Hybrid isn’t the same thing as an all EV range and by definition that means internal combustion engine and electric.Obviously haven’t got the bottle to bet the farm on their customers being as keen on all EV’s as the media propaganda makes out.
Meanwhile no surprise that this nightmare control freak world only seems to be meant for the working class plebs.Can’t realistically see anyone spending that type of money settling for a battery powered toy.Which just leaves the question how long until the working classes realise that they are being stitched up.Just listen to the thing at 11.34 - 12.15. 
UKtramp:
Well I have my own slant on things, especially on the eastern Europeans. You are assuming that all Eastern Europeans are hard working and are good citizens along with being respectful of their hosts. This is also assuming that all English people are lazy, overweight and disrespectful. It is true of the fact there are some good eastern Europeans, I work with a fair amount of them, I also work with our own English lads. Now the fact of the matter is I have also worked with some bolchy and lazy eastern Europeans. Now heres the real facts, the poles have very low paid jobs in comparison to ours, our minimum wage is better than a lot of their high flyer role jobs that these drivers can achieve. Therefore they are very happy to come over here and work all hours for minimum wage and obviously won’t complain, they get on with it as they think they have won the lottery. Employers love this attitude of they have as they will do whatever to keep that job, we then complain as we think our wages are too low but the eastern Europeans look like they work hard without complaining, so the English get the reputation of being lazy arrogant etc, even among ourselves. Give an English man the equivalent of double his wages and see how happy and non complaining he can be. Whilst the Eastern Europeans are here working happily for the money, ours will never rise.
Outstanding post bud.nail on head and then some.
A fully autonomous vehicle should have less incidents as there will be sensors everywhere, no such thing as a blind spot that way. The technology exists but we don’t get it as standard, a robot has to have it as a necessity. Of course I’m assuming that there’ll be sensors at the top of the unit/ trailer to prevent bridge strikes, not sure how they’ll cope with rain/snow sodden tree canopies weighed down though, stop and wait for spring perhaps? Nor the old granny down the country lane that can’t/ won’t reverse 50 yards. The knob in the BMW that decides to brake test and stop in front of it and spends 10 minutes screaming abuse at an empty cockpit. The cyclists that will deliberately put themselves in the way just to see it jerk down the road a yard at a time. Should be fun, just don’t want to be anywhere near one when they get let lose on public roads, you can predict what most road users are going to do in any given situation, but a computer? Asimov didn’t cover this.
Juddian:
IronEddie,This is a prime example of why you should never believe politicians or their chums in the mainstream media.
For all you know those mass redundancies (and the pit closures in particular decimated vast swathes of the country which have never fully recovered) might never have happened for all the times you hear about our true modern history, the trouble is the victors those who made £billions, or rather their whores, get to write and rewrite that history to suit what they wish to buy/sell/destroy next.
Peter Hitchen’s books if you spot any, such as ‘The Abolition of Britain’, are worth a read.
I’m currently reading Douglass Murray’s ‘The Strange Death of Europe’, that’s an eye opener.You’re better informed than most younger people though mate, you’re asking questions and not blindly accepting the official line where they tell you what you want to hear, that alone will see you appearing on secret lists for when the re-education camps become more common
Oh I’m definitely on many lists already!!
Lots of interesting comments, however (apart from ironEddie & possibly JakeWS) most seem to have missed the point I was trying to make, so a quick recap:
KTMrider:
Prior to the threat of self driving trucks, an 18 year old considering a HGV career may well have considered all the other traditional disadvantages as worth the price. If it’s what you want to do then pay the cost of training, struggle to get that first job, hope your wages will improve, look for a job with less nights out etc. etc…
But where is the incentive now to go through all that, just to THEN worry whether you’ll last 5 more years or 10 before you are on the scrapheap and looking for a new career (in your late 30s early 40s ?) because you’ve been replaced by a computer ?
So the point I was trying to make was, that I am seriously wondering whether the now much hyped self driving future will be putting off a significant number of potential younger lorry drivers, thereby further significantly reducing those considering going for the licence at a time when there is already a supposed looming crisis (as the large number of over 50 drivers retire and presumably less eastern euros want to / will be able to take their place due to the Brexit related falling pound and expected tougher immigration controls down the road)
Many of the responses seem to broadly fall into one of two camps:
So what if the prospect of being replaced by a computer in 2030/2035/2040■■ (insert your best guess here) makes the job look EVEN less appealing, it’s already got next no appeal in 2017 anyway !!!
OR
Self driving trucks will never work, here’s all the reasons why…
The problem I have with the “you’d have to be mad to want to drive a lorry these days” argument is it always seems to be based on the assertion that “things were much better in the old days” which may well be true, but isn’t actually all that relevant.
It’s not relevant because once I’d got my Class 2 licence (at the age of 47 - hence I’m not too worried about a self driving future putting me out of a job) and started looking at the type of work available oddly enough it was all going to be trucking 2017 style, trucking 80’s style sadly wasn’t available.
What would be far more relevant would be to compare lorry driving today, with - you guessed it - other jobs available out there today and based on my (reasonably considerable as it happens) experience of other types of work I’d say that being a Class 2 agency lorry driver in this neck of the woods stacks up pretty well so far in terms of job satisfaction and general enjoyment for me.
One of the comments that always makes me laugh is when people say stuff like “why would you pay £3k to get a HGV licence when you could get the same hourly rate working in ALDI?”
Why indeed.
Anyone who’d rather work in a supermarket full time deserves to
So - as it happens - lorry driving today still can have considerable appeal compared to many of the other alternatives out there today - strange, but true.
Right onto the Self driving trucks will never work arguments.
Well in a nutshell - I pretty much hope you are all right about that, but that misses my point. My point was, that the media is absolutely full of this stuff at the moment and surely the generally much less cynical 18/20 year olds reading it are more likely to be convinced by it and think - there goes my dream of being a lorry driver (well steering wheel attendant anyway 
) - best go get me an ALDI application form.
So what I am really wondering here is what might be the impact on recruitment of (particularly under 30 ) drivers into the industry of the prospect of self driving trucks and what impact could this have on the industry (eg wage rises■■?).
In a nutshell I’m wondering that IF the industry already faces a looming crisis of not recruiting enough drivers to replace those due to retire over the next 5/10 years , has the task not now become yet harder, because some people will be put off taking a job that they believe (rightly or wrongly) will be made redundant by advances in computer driving tech in the next two decades.
Or will Theresa keep the floodgates open after all and we’ll just solve it with yet more imported drivers ■■?